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The big question is: how fast is the AF on the new X-E2 really? The AF-performance was maybe the only real weak spot of the overall amazing X-system. Although much improved firmware after firmware, the AF of the X-E1 still can’t catch up with the records of Panasonic and Olympus.
What changed with the X-E2? Bert Stephani tested the AF-performance during Kobe’s soccer game:
“The X-E2 has an AF system that combines contrast detection and phase detection technologies. Theoretically this should improve focus speed a lot, particularly in good light. So I took the X-E2 and the [shoplink 12892]55-200[/shoplink] to Kobe’s soccer game last weekend to give the AF a serious challenge.
I didn’t expect the X-E2 to focus as fast as a Canon 1Dx or a Nikon D4 but I also didn’t expect it to be really useable for shooting soccer. But to my surprise it held up pretty well and I got quite a few action shots. The continuous focus is still a bit hit or miss, but it focusses so fast that I got some nice stuff in single shot focus mode.
I’ve seen some impressive numbers about the focus speed after the lenses will have received a firmware update, so things can only get even better in the near future. “
Read Bert’s full article (and see his shots) here at confessionsxl.com.
image courtesy: confessionsxl
84 Responses
This is awesome news.
im almost to buy a fuji camera im looking for the xe1 or xe2 but here the diference is almost 400$usd the question is did they have the same image quality ? is better buy the xe2 or buy xe1 and 35mm lens fot the dame price?
I’m significantly more interested in low light focus improvements, personally. Will PDAF help with that, or is it only for well lit situations?
PDAF is only for well lit situations.
But keep in mind that the CDAF should be much faster (as the reports tell) than in X-E1/X-Pro1. Almost all the reports are done with CDAF only as the only lens that supports PDAF as of today – is the XF23.
the soccer pictures were shot at f/8 and f/10 ——> useless to judge the autofocus speed, even with manual focus I would be able to get sharp results using such an aperture
+1
this soccer pictures are really nothing special, can do that with xe1 too.
hopefully the AF is improved for tracking, but this has total be proofed with other pics.
Keep in mind the soccer pictures were taken with lenses that don’t yet take advantage of PDAF – so the performance would be expected to be similar to the X-E1.
true, thats another reason why these soccer pictures are useless to judge the autofocus speed
Well, I thought I’d come by and troll, but it appears that someone beat me to it. Using my X-Pro1 with the latest firmware I can not achieve focus on amateur rugby players, so this is an improvement. And yeah, f8 and f10, but still, focus is focus and football is about changing directions. I’ll hail this as an improvement and await the PDAF testing results.
Doesn’t seem a good AF improvement to me.
One needs the lens firmware updates that are coming soon, Hold off till then to judge it.
I’ve only had the X-E2 since yesterday, but I can already say, that some aspects of the “AF-improvements” are absolutely disappointing to me.
First, I don’t see a significant improvement in AF speed compared to the AF of the X-E1 with the latest firmware update (from July or so). That might change a bit with the lens firmware updates due later this month to fully profit from the PDAF, but judging from my (2 week long) experience with the X100s, it’s not going to be game-changing.
So after I was actually more or less happy with the AF speed of my X-E1 lately, what really bothered me was the cumbersome selection of the focus point (coming from a Nicon D90 where you could target an object with a selected focus point and then reframe and the camera would be (3D-) tracking the object accross the viewfinder to whereever it ended up in the frame, so you never needed to manually fiddle around with arrow keys for moving any AF-point). I was very happy to learn that an AF-subject-tracking (not to be confused with continuous-AF-tracking) was available in the X20 and X-M1 and I checked both. Even though the activation of the function was on one of the arrow keys, it seemed to be very helpful for my purpose. And I was very much looking forward to finding this in the X-E2.
Which I did not! It could have been quite a leap forward combined with the continuous-AF-tracking available in the camera (which also is quite so so, it permanently hunts in and out of focus, might get better with the PDAF after the lens firmware upgrade, currently it’s not useful for me). But what is it worth, if the subject moves across the frame and your focus point (which is continously refocussing) loses the subject?
At least, for shooting faces, it’s implemented with the face detection feature. Whereas the focus accuracy of the face is quite a mixed bag too. I had quite a few shots with the ears in focus and the eyes and front of the face clearly out of focus.
So overall, AF is not the reason I would favour the X-E2 over the X-E1.
witch lens/lenses do you use with x-e2 ? I dont expect 35mm (now my only lens with x-e1) will ever be fast focusing lens but with pdaf should less hunting witch may speed up AF. We need to wait for FW update for that.
Sad to read that…I hoped that AF-system would be robust enough, with object tracking (even Sony NEX has AF-tracking capability)… but what pisses me off most of all – it’s X-E1 viewfinder freeze half-second before achieving focus and metering – enough for subject to move, or to blink and etc. Do you notice any improvements in EVF (lags and freezes, sharpness)? Also, does the writing to card speed dramatically increases, or at the same slowish level as in X-E1? And overall camera speed?
There’s two weeks before B&H would have X-E2 in stock, and I’m in serious doubts to cancel X-E2 ordering…
The improvement of the shutter lag feels significant. I assume that most of the reported “snappyness” of the X-E2 can be accounted to this alone.
I’m using the 18, 35, 60 and 55-200mm. I’wasn’t complaining about the speed of the AF in the X-E1 after the FW updates in July. The PDAF could still improve it, because it would set the correct direction of the focus path right away, so it could ideally save 50% of the focussing time (as long as you’re stying within the 9 center AF points).
None of theses lenses is currently supporting PDAF, so what improvement do you expect?
I think you misunderstood my posting. I’m expecting improvements AFTER I get the lens firmware updates enabling the PDAF for these lenses compared to the non-PDAF status of the X-E2 I’m currently experiencing with my lenses.
You should know on Friday, except for the 18mm, which is due by the end of November. Let’s hope that Fuji stays on schedule.
Actually since this is a new sensor with new cdaf auto focus I would have expected it to be faster than the X-E1`s…
Good to know and I’m really looking forward to checking this out before I have to decide whether to return the X-E2 and stick to my X-E1.
BTW, do you have any reasonable explication why Fuji did not include the AF-subject-tracking available in the X-M1 and X20 (and possibly the X-A1 too) for the X-E2? Any chance this might get added via a later FW upgrade (I don’t mind to wait a few months like we did with the improvements of the X-E1).
And burying the activation of the face detection somewhere in the Menu renders the function almost unusable. What a pity.
Yep, that’s a real bummer, especially since FD also influences the exposure metering. I am sure this will be addressed in a firmware update, should be quite easy to implement.
The lens firmware update! Is needed for C. I think its do in a week or so from FUJI.
Now that almost everyone have Full Frame if fuji even with fast af wont come out with an alternative FF is dead and for kitch lovers
I disagree here – I prefer Fuji would stay on APS-C route, because FF-lenses way too heavy and large, APS-C system is nicely balanced between size/weight/quality.
But it’s not the reason for Fuji to do nothing – they should catch up very quickly in some major thing such as robust AF-system, overall speed, better EVF… at the same price point there is Panasonic GX7 – fast, feature rich, with very good image quality, ordered one for my wife to replace her Panasonic GX1.
I am beginning to doubt the AF issue is solvable for APS-C and larger sensors. I was excited about the dual-pixel 70D, but though accurate (as you would expect from on-sensor technology), it was still very slow. As much as I hate the mirror contraptions, I am thinking of going back to a dSLR. It’s nice to have a great lens system already in place too, though really you have to go full-frame to get it, at least if you want primes instead of zooms. I am not sure about Canon, but Nikon doesn’t really make primes for APS-C to give the right full-frame equivalents, and most of the crop primes are not that good. So, if you want high-quality primes, you can’t get the right focal lengths. That is one thing I love about Fuji, they had enough sense to adjust the focal lengths for that. And that was one reason I left Sony NEX, is that they were replicating full-frame focal lengths in crop lenses, which I didn’t want.
I came to Fuji from Sony NEX camp, due to better ergonomics, lenses
SOOC Jpegs, Fuji-colors and IQ. But slowness of a X-E1 sometimes really bugs me.
But shooting with X-E1 is way more fun, than with NEX… Sony feels like a smartphone, and Fuji feels like a camera.
That’s why I said that Fuji must dramatically improve AF and overall system speed, writing times and etc.
Honestly, about the only thing I liked about my NEX was the shutter button, which took very little pressure to actuate. My X-E is much stiffer, and I worry a lot about shaking the camera when I shoot, and really concentrate on pushing it smoothly without jerking it. My NEX was soooo fiddly to use, it drove me crazy. And really, I didn’t find the focus even as good as my Fuji. Yes, the lenses adjust faster, but where the NEX would give up and throw up a green square, my Fuji will actually focus where I want it to.
Hm… I feel different way about shutter – my X-E1 shutter is soft as it was in NEX… I also bought a soft-shutter button and screwed it into “remote release” cavity, even better shutter response now.
But I completely agree about AF – Fuji is more precise, Sony a little bit faster, but misses a lot.
All Fuji is need – it’s gain speed.
Canon 7D has a pretty good AF system so its possible yes…
But it’s not mirrorless camera…
@kenzo: really just shows how much you know about camera systems.
1. One of the cheapest FF mirrorless bodies will be Sony A7 which will still cost 1500 Euro (body only) – that’s still 600 Euro more than the X-E2
2. due to the APS-C Sensor it’s possible to build a smaller body around the sensor (compare the x-series bodies to A7 f.e.) + look at their lens sizes
3. image quality: Fuji used the perfect combination of MP and latest sensor technology in order to get closer to FF Systems than any other APS-C system.
–> this system is everything but dead 😉
Fantastic the cliché : FF = wide body .. In fact, the leica are so wide that I can put into my pocket with lens and all the stuff. And do not beset with the fact that the Leica has not autofocus, and is a rangefinder … is simply small like a fuji, only FF… indeed as a sony a7 as fuji is far behind on sensors with the size of a postage stamp
nobdody said that every APS-C cam has to be tiny. It’s simply possible to build smaller cameras compared to FF. Still a poor statement to claim Fuji is dead because they haven’t released a FF system cam yet 😉
nobody? cit: “2. due to the APS-C Sensor it’s possible to build a smaller body around the sensor (compare the x-series bodies to A7 f.e.) + look at their lens sizes”
“The AF-performance was maybe the only real weak spot of the overall amazing X-system.”
Yes, this is killing me. I love everything else about my X-E1 (especially the direct controls), but I have started taking a lot of pics of people, which requires me to use the 60/2.4 a lot, and I am very frustrated. If the 56/1.2 doesn’t focus much, much faster (and it should, lets in a lot more light for focus, and should have a much faster focusing rate), I am likely to move back to dSLRs. I may not even wait that long, might buy a used D7000 or D600 (and pray for no oil) before then, and relegate my Fuji to just the camera to keep with me, with prolly only the 35.
If I believed the X-E2 was much better, I would probably buy it, but from people’s experience with the X100s, I doubt it is much better than the X-E1 in most conditions. I thought maybe by the X-E3, but really I wonder if the APS-C sensors are ever going to get there.
Last weekend we were in safari-park and zoo with my wife, and I took Canon 6D + 70-200/4L with me, haven’t touched it quite some time… and I glad I did – even it’s not 5D Mark III, AF and overall speed and response are light years ahead of X-E1, not to mention big bright OVF.
Latest comments about X-E2 makes me think of skipping the upgrade – seems to be that “X-E2 is a speed demon” is no more than a marketing hype… maybe Fuji caught up with 1 year old Sony NEX 6.
I really wanted to buy X-E2, but after eading all reviews , i decided not to buy. The reason is.. all this reviews can no CONFIRM good autofocus .All we hear the weak statements “improved, decent, better” instead of “fast, on pair with my DSRL, great AF” .All this makes me pretty much confident – AF of X-E2 is still very slow for PROFESSIONAL WORK, especially with documentary, action, weddings. Im not even talkin about sport. This camera can only be good for posed portraituire,food or street photography. I will tell you folk when i will go for this on X-E3 camera – only, after i will se DETAILED AF comparisons with PRO level DSRL in weddings/sport area. And is small apertures 1.2-2.8 F . So far…a; this “better”, “iporved”, “wait for new firmware updates” is makes this camera look very un-PRO, amateur – level more device.
FUJI! Wake up! We love ,love your X. But the major PROBLEM is AF. Only because of this, a lot of PRO still keep their DSRL. Fix it, and a lot of us gonna sell our systems and go for FUji!
Yes. I agree. 1 year after x100s new AF…..no AF improvements in x-e2
IMHO…..Fuji..if you don’t know how to build a fast AF…buy the technology 🙂
There are plenty of AF improvements in the X-E2 compared to the X100S. So sadly, your comment is wrong.
There’s hope that Fuji may (be able to) implement the X-E2 and XQ1 improvements in the X100S and X20 via firmware upgrades.
improvements doesn’t mean ….fast AF, don’t?
Ok, little steps
but I hope to see a real fast AF in the next update x200, x-pro2 or x-e2 (yes, “2”, imho the new model is X-e1(s)).
Given that the 55-200mm doesn’t support the PDAF, yet, this review is a bit puzzling. Did the photographer use pre-release lens firmware? It’s not mentioned in the article, is it?
IMO, the most logical assumption is that both camera and lens were tested as they are being sold right now, i.e. each with their most recent publicly released firmware versions.
What is puzzling to me is the decision by Fuji to release a new camera before the firmware required to use it to its full potential was completed.
The new firmware is due on 8NOV.
QED. 🙂
You can perfectly use all lenses with the new camera, but you can’t review the PDAF. You’d have to have pre-release PDAF firmware or you will endanger your credibility as a reviewer. Of course, AF tracking works in CDAF mode, too, but your results may not be as good as with hybrid AF.
Btw, Zeiss still hasn’t committed to eventually offer LMO and PDAF updates for their X-Mount Touit lenses. Should Fuji wait with their X-E2 deliveries until Zeiss comes around, maybe someday in 2014, if ever? Probably not.
@Rico: where did you get the information regarding a firmware update on Nov 8? Thanks.
Bert didn’t claim to test PDAF specifically. His review is titled “first impressions” and he does mention that after the firmware update, “things can only get even better in the near future”. I don’t see how testing a system as it is being sold can compromise your credibility.
As for the Zeiss reference: by your reasoning it would be okay for Fuji to release a new camera touting improved battery life, and then hold back on offering the required higher capacity battery based on the argument that Hama has not committed to upgrading their compatible battery offerings?
Hm, I am reading about an “AF challenge” here on FR. In any case, I’d like to know what kind of firmware was used, that’s why I asked. I didn’t read every word of the article and simply want to know if I have missed this vital information. Speaking of X-E2 AF tracking, you MUST disclose whether it’s hybrid AF or not. Simple as that.
nbk, I read it in my own article here on FR in which was announcing the planned lens firmware update schedule for LMO and PDAF support. Of course, as usual, I’ll believe it when I see it, as those unofficial schedules tend to change. 😉
Btw, the X100 firmware error update is due tomorrow.
We wouldn’t even have this discussion if the required firmware for the most heavily marketed/anticipated improvement over the X-E1 had been available from day 1. Simple as that. 🙂
It has been available from day 1 in the 23mm and 50-230mm. I have been using both lenses with hybrid AF. So if I wanted to test the hybrid AF today, I’d simply attach the XC zoom. The AF samples were at apertures 8 and higher, anyway.
I will of course review the AF later, with a production camera and updated lens firmware.
And we would still have this discussion, because I can’t just assume that the reviewer updated his firmware, I have to know. It’s still not clear whether he had access to a pre-release version or not. I am done speculating now, I’ll just wait for a clarification from someone who knows which lens firmware version was used for this test.
I believe that Bert is a professional photographer, not a professional reviewer. So I’d expect him to share his views on the gear he uses, not a sub-selection of lenses Fuji has cherry picked for a timely firmware release.
Standard Fuji practice, camera first, firmware to use it sometime later. It gets tedious after a while … but I doubt it will change. Fuji is what Fuji was … lots and lots of versions of the same thing == firmware_complexity == lots of updating.
Yes, I know, continuous improvement … sometimes, and sometimes continuous disimprovement 😉
Yep, it’s really terrible if early adopters to have to wait 2-3 days for new lens firmware. Or 2-3 months/years if they paid the premium for a Touit.
I have been told that Sony still hasn’t issued updates for several NEX lenses in order to support the PDAF in the NEX 6, though.
I’ve been told to believe it when I see it, as those unofficial schedules tend to change.
And “they’re doing it too” is really not the most convincing of arguments.
Then complain if Fuji doesn’t deliver the upgrades on schedule and in a timely manner.
That ship has already sailed. 🙂
Absolutely not.
Fuji: our new X-E2 has the “world’s fastest auto focus”.
Me: okay, I’ll take one. Hey, wait… it’s just as fast as my X-E1.
Fuji: of course it is, our new lens firmware isn’t available yet.
Me: so when will I be able to use the advertised fastest auto focus?
Fuji: depends on your lens… and whether we will be able to keep our schedule… but rest assured, it will be “timely”.
LOL, you really seem to enjoy your new job as a part-time troll. 🙂
@Rico – there’s a saying on the forums: don’t feed the trolls. I can’t really comprehend how anyone could complain about the Fuji approach of constantly updating almost all their camera and lenses…so I won’t even try. Just ignore comments that don’t bring any added value.
No worries, I am just spending time waiting for a clarification. If the shots were made with the old firmware, nobody needs an update, anyway, because even the CDAF seems to be perfectly okay for shooting soccer games. 😉 Yeah, right…
I’m little bit worry about new lens firmware schedule… if Fuji would release it after start of X-E2 sales, and customer will figure out, that it doesn’t change much of AF-speed and tracking… Good marketing move in short term, but bad strategy overall.
Users should certainly have the chance to experience the difference between CDAF and PDAF. If some them feel that it doesn’t make much of a difference, that’s perfectly okay. Btw, you can always test CDAF against hybrid AF simply by selecting an AF frame that’s outside of the inner 9 frame rectangle.
I’m not against testing CDAF and PDAF – I just pre-ordered X-E2, and using X-E1 for a bit, and don’t want to be in situation that I’ve spent 1000$ on gear that was not that great as advertised, and performance in critical areas (AF speed, AF-C, EVF (bad light, focus acquisition) and shutter lags, SD card writing speed, wake-up and overall speed,) is not that different from X-E1…
Fact of the matter is that I own an X100 and I’ve been thrilled with it from day one, more so after the most recent firmware upgrade. I’ve also been keeping a close eye on Fuji’s developments since then and have a particular interest in the X-E series because to me, it strikes a perfect balance between form factor, size, ergonomics, haptics and IQ. That is the one and only reason why I am visiting this site, and join in a discussion from time to time.
So you can try and play the troll card on me, but it won’t stick.
No worries, everybody can read and make up their own mind. You will be happy to find X100 firmware 2.01 tomorrow on the Fuji server.
IMHO
forget fuji x-e2 if you want a fast AF, you have to wait x-e4 or x-pro3
I doubt it will take that long, but who knows?
mmmhhh
ok, x-pro2(s)?
Why pre-order anything, if you aren’t confident that it will be what u want. Wait till it’s in the store, so u can try it first. That said, if you have pre-ordered and have recieved it, don’t expect the best performance until the firmware update for the lenses is release…It is just common sense.
So they can whine about their perceptions in online forums. Seriously.
I use the X100S (I still use my X100 on occasions) and X Pro 1 mostly for Street Photography where I’m moving and my subjects are moving. I’m still learning and trying to improve my photography, but since I shoot every day and know my camera very well I nail almost every shot I go for during day and night shoots. Of course I still miss shots, but it’s usually something I did wrong instead of the camera.
I use a Canon 5D MKIII, Canon 60D, Olympus OMD EM1, and an iPhone and get very nice results with them as well. There’s a long history of great photography way before AF. I’m not sure what shots people are missing that is caused by the AF.
I think Fuji is making great cameras and they seem to listen to their customers. I also hope they continue to make improvements and I look forward to what they will come out with in the future.
Bingo. Most of these numbskulls whining about poor AF should be examining their technique. Most of their problem is likely spray-n-pray style shooting. If that’s what it is that crowd ought to just move over to Olympus or go buy a DSLR.
Is there any improvements regarding image quality over the X-E1? I mean if AF was not an issue it is worth the upgrade in terms of better image quality?
Good questions!
X-E1 IQ..vs X-E2 IQ, any differences?
Rico,
If Fuji decided to put out a firmware upgrade for our X100s’, what improvements would we see?
Thanks
I’m not convinced. The images look ‘digital’. Still prefer my X-Pro1 (even though same sensor?) and X100 Classic
+1
Hahaha. They’re digital images. What? Your xp1 OOC shots look to be film? Which brand and type?
Please go play in your sandbox. And don’t bother us pro photographers with your amateurish comments. Have a nice day 🙂
Hi,
Fujifilm X E2’s autofocus speed seems much better than X E1.
If you spend time on e X1 you can capture moving subject like as bird
this shut was tken X E1 with 18-55 mm f 2.8-5.6 lens
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qipynz9zh3toy9b/Bled-0223277.jpg
After I get my XE2 my XE1 will be my MF camera with Canon MF FD lenses so Then it will have slow AF lol. 98% of the time I’m shooting at infinity so who cares!