Hi all
I have a little update about the X-T10. A New Source told us that the X-T10 will feature the same sensor of the X-T1 (so the 16MP X-TransII sensor)
So the full rumored specs list so far is: (SRP = source right in the past / NeS = New Source)
– Name: X-T10 (SRP + NeS)
– cheaper version of the X-T1 (SPR + NeS)
– no weather sealing (SRP)
– smaller EVF (SRP)
– same sensor of X-T1 (NeS)
stay tuned on FujiRumors
Just released: Rico’s new X-T1 book. You can buy it also at AmazonUS, but just for Kindle and with DRM.
105 Responses
So it’s basically an X-T1 with an X-E2 EVF and the rubber seals pulled out. Seems like a used/refurbished X-T1 will be a better buy. Hopefully some news about the Pro 2/X-E3/X-T2 sooner or later, would be great to have some confirmation of a new sensor.
So it’s basically X-E2 in X-T1 shaped body.
Because of no weather sealing, the buttons and 4-way controller can be made less recessed and more clicky ! So buttons you can find/feel when your eye is on the EVF. That’s a big plus!
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! Fuji in same-old-sensor shocker!
This really does seem a pretty pointless exercise. As Raz says, better to buy a refurbished X-T1 for about the same price.
Or wait few months and get a refurbished X-T10 even cheaper !
Or buy a refurbished X-E2 today for just £314.10 from Fuji themselves! Now THAT is a good deal…
16mpx X-Trans??That was excellent in 2012..!!
and we all really expected they’d put a 320MP 6×9 format sensor into it… what a pity
Or is that sensor to be reserved for the X-Pro2?
Yes, because that 24 MP sensor will be outdated when PRO2 is introduced !
Outdated? Honestly. Sensors have barely changed except for resolution over the last few years. Almost all the tiny gains have been in the image processing and noise reduction algorithms (yes, all raw images have some noise reduction).
Sarcasm 🙂
2012 design sensor in a 2015 camera. Errr… ok.
Not a bad move for an entry level camera; provided the price is right
Entry level camera with high FF lens prices.
At the end of the day what do you want ? Cheap camera and cheap lenses ? You’ll get cheap results; Fuji has excellent lens at various price point, but none of them are bad; they are often really good for their price IMHO (think XCs or XF18-55 or 35mm ….) Not sure where you pick the “high FF lens prices” from.
Basic lenses:
Documentary / reportage:
35mm (XF 23mm) : 800 EUR
50mm (XF35): 500 EUR
Portrait:
85mm (XF56mm): 900 EUR
50mm (XF35) has the only right price tag, but it’s also the cheapest lens to make
You’re only picking high end lenses with excellent properties (1.2 to 1.4) – not really what someone buying an entry level body would pick. To your remark there are several options
– buy in their zooms – good to “surprisingly good” quality; much better than competition’s equivalent.
– There will probably be some kits being sold. (think X-T1 + 23)
– find second hand gear – cheap and cheerful
– wait for their cash-back ops (currently 100 to 500€ cash-back in France for 1-3 lenses)
There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
1.4 on APS-C is not the same as on fullframe. You have no other choice for primes. Same quality but f2 – f2.8 would be fine for 500 EUR. Zooms? Sure, small cameras with big lenses, and zoom yeah. Don’t release another camera with the same quality/sensor, there is no need. Or do you believe this XT-10 will cost halve of XT-1? Don’t think so. I am not going to respond for second gear or cashbacks, you can buy those for other brands too.
Fuji is not hiding anything from you – nothing here is a surprise – they are using APS-C their price list is public as is their current offering (bodies and lenses) AND their lens roadmap before you buy-in their X system. I genuinely can’t understand why and how people can complain afterwards. Rumors all converge : high-end XPro2 by the end of the year is (almost) a given and a new entry level with a (D)SLR form factor and -relatively- old technology to keep the price low. What’s wrong with that ?
Now rumors are end of the year, just like in 2013 the rumor was in 2014. It’s 2015 now. And no announcement of XPRO2, only rumors. Rumors are going on from 2013. Now (2015-2016), they really need to rush before they lose a lot of photographers, and not release another same camera with another same sensor en technology.
So many hints from Fuji point towards the Xpro2 that it is almost not a rumor anymore. In the meantime they released the X-T1 – which addresses another market segment; Although your concern is valid, what I am seeing around me is that they gain more and more photographers. Seems that they are not doing only mistakes and I don’t think they deserve the “shame on you” you started your first post with
Remember those days when Fuji launched the XPRO1 with the message ‘A compact APS-C system with image quality near fullframe DSLRs’. In fact, in 2012 that was true. In 2015, it’s still the same sensor, no evolution. People made the investment for this new system. X-TRANS same IQ with current fullframe DSLRs is now a joke. It is not a serious system anymore, instead they are releasing entry level cameras. The only hint for XPRO2 was in an interview, about an evolution (not revolution). So what do you expect, the 24MP sony sensor that every brand is already using for years now, will finaly find it’s way to an XPRO2 in the end of 2015 (shipping in 2016)? Or maybe, still same 16MP sensor with some extra phase detection points? 🙂
So I guess you’ve sold all your Fuji gear by now.
Yes, i did, and that feeled bad because i really love the Fuji system. 23 & 35mm are jewels. But there is only thing that counts, and that are prints. The Sony Zeiss 35mm 2.8 is also very very very good, it has the same price as the Fuji 23mm. The Sony Zeiss 55mm 1.8 is even better, but for 50mm range i ordered a true Zeiss lens, the Loxia 50 f2 (Planar), full manual, no autofocus, and hey i will have back a aperture ring 🙂 I hope to stay with Sony, i trust they make evolutions in sensor & cameras so i can make investments in lenses. I don’t need much, 35-50-85mm is enough.
The sensor may not have made great leaps, but they have been developing some great lenses. I have to assume something behind the scenes, that we don’t know about, is holding things up on the sensor side. Maybe they aren’t getting the sensor they want from Sony. Maybe they want to develop something else. Who knows.
The xpro2 hasn’t come as it didn’t sell well and they said they were waiting for a significant improvement. The xt1 sold very well so fuji is trying to cash in on the form factor
Comparable quality ff lenses cost more. The 16-55mm is us$1200 while a Canon 24-70 is us$2000…
Wow a 2012 sensor! I remember those primitive days where the sensors had no dynamic range, bad low-light capabilities, and it was only 16 MPs.
At this speed Fuji is going to become a next Canon in terms of lack of sensor updates.
I’m not surprised by the news, but the grammar has me asking : Is “the same… of” grammatically correct? Just curious
Shame on you, Fuji. Hope for you guys that an updated sensor will come in the end of 2015, the XTRANS1 will celebraty their 4th birthday. That’s when another company has a 50MP fullframe mirrorless for months with Zeiss 24-35-50-85mm. If Fuji also keeps the updated XTRANS2 for another 4 year, Fuji will be dead with old sensor technology (24MP CMS?) in 2019. I left the ship.
http://www.deschampheleer.be
Goodbye
Cheerio! I’d like to see an instance where this DREADFUL, OLD, OUTDATED sensor has ruined an otherwise masterful image. I’m yet to see one…
I find it fascinating – as an ex-Nikonist I remember all Nikon users being up in arms when Nikon was releasing a new body (every year/two years/four years depending on the product line with an intertwined release of pro bodies (they have 2 pro lines) meaning in effect a new pro body every 2 years D3 D3S D4 D4s …) because there was not enough improvement and was just to attract the punter’s hard earned cash.
Here we have a manufacturer who says “We do not want to change bodies too often – it is not justified” and some people are up in arms saying “I can’t carry on using and old technology (ie my pictures are crap because Fuji does not provide me with the tools)
Sorry but I can’t stop laughing
If you need to print on large format for expositions, you would be happy if Fuji released a year ago higher resolution sensors. There is no need for higher resolution for web, but artists or professionals for print will not look at Fuji, APS-C 16MP is just not enough. I am not a gear guy, i only want the right tool for the job.
I was raised in a farm and I can still recognise bullsh*t when I smell some. I was routinely printing A3+ to A2 from my 4mp Nikon D2Hs. It is only a matter of file properly resampled and a good professional printer knowing his/her equipment. Not your round the corner shop.
I don’t call A3 or A2 large format Didiergm. And the kind of photograph is very important to know if you can scale up or not. You can blow up portraits and close subjects, but if you need to upscale a lot of details like in landscapes, you are limited (see my kind of photography at my tumblr: http://www.deschampheleer.be). I print on EPSON large formats series, at home 90x60cm on an Epson 7880 but can alse use a 9880 too, but Fuji camera resolution was not good enough.
A3 or A2 is not large, but I repeat that was from a 4MP sensor; What’s the limit with 16MP ? I am not saying that you could not benefit from more MP but frankly from 16 to 24 is not huge. If you routinely print skyscrapper-size (so to speak) may be you need a good MF body. instead of APSC
For landscapes 16MP APS-C, the limit is 90x60cm for perfect prints on decent paper, 300DPI and baryt or other high quality photopaper like Hahnemuhle. 90x60cm seems large, but on big white walls, it’s not that large.
Do you upscale in ps? 300dpi an 90 cm gives 10.000 pixels?!
Sorry, i print 240DPI not 300DPI because it would be too much for APS-C 16MP. 240DPI is still fine. 300DPI should be perfect because a human eye can’t see the difference everything higher than 300 DPI.
Upscale in PS is not good. I use Blow Up 3 and add some subtile noise, because a little noise adds sharpness to an image. You don’t see that noise on the final print because you have also the texture of the paper, and it will not feel digital. I also use Capture One for X-RAW for getting the most out of it.
Thanks for the tip. I will try out blow up 3.
You’re welcome. I find Blow Up 3 pretty good. If you want to scale in Photoshop, never do it in one step but in multiple steps of 25%.
Not that I want to start an argument, I agree that 300 and 240 DPI is enough for most prints. But calling it the limit for a human eye is a delusion. It’s some old theory, just like the tv screen size to viewing distance ratio – BS. The last generations of 2.5k mobile screens prove that.
So…..16 MP is a limitation, but 24 MP isn’t? Bizarre, because their resolution, which is measured linearly, isn’t much different.
If you were going to go big, and you needed the resolution as much as you say, then you were MUCH better off buying the A7r.
Nawski: 16MP APS-C vs 24MP fullframe is a big difference, i can go at least 2x larger in upscaling. Just like there is a difference between 16MP APS-C vs 16MP microfourthirds. It’s not only the pixel count.
Sure A7R will be better, but i did a great deal with A7 (1050 EUR with cashback, that is cheap for FF camera) and the A7R-MkII is coming in a few weeks with 50MP sensor. If price is ok, i probably switch from A7 to A7R-II, but it’s not a must, 24MP FF is ok for my work now.
PS: i replaced my XPRO1 for Sony A7 with Zeiss 35 and ordered a Zeiss Loxia 50mm. With 24MP fullframe i can go at least 2x larger. (and there is also a choice for 36MP A7R, and A7R Mk2 will come in a few weeks with 50MP). That is what pro wants: resolution. Dynamic range, higher iso, etc is all fine with current sensor technology.
Ok so I assume you are happy now? Might want to hop over to sonyrumors.com
Sjoerd: yeah, it only confirms that i made the right choice. Very happy now (just kidding). It’s getting boring, on every post everybody wants new sensor, IBIS, and if possible fullframe. Well, another brand has it all.
Gras is altijd groener aan de overkant..
.
Why you buy a Kia when you need a Ferrari, and blaming Kia that it’s not fast enough?
If Fuji puts the upcoming 24mp sensor into this camera, that would be the same awkward situation when they released the X-T1 and they called the X-Pro1 the flagship model.
It does make sense to use the 16mp sensor in the X-T10, if it’s gonna be the same body as the X-T1 it means they can use the same production line longer and eventually phase out the X-T1.
Most people gonna go for the cheaper option anyway, and I see this move as a sign of the X-T2.
Get another cam.
Agreed. Your comment had me remember how much I loved the output the the D2H LBCAST sensor at the time.
The D2Hs was the only reason I kept Nikon gear till last December. The D2Hs was the last to go 🙁 That along the D1x both body had a unique rendering (which to some extend I find too in Fuji high iso rendering, quite film like). The rest of my Nikon gear went w/o regret as I find them (dare I say ?) technically excellent but pretty standard, almost too clean or clinical – difficult to tell exactly but certainly not like the D2Hs. Sigh 🙂
I completely agree with you. The D2H and Nikon Capture were a good combination for me and made me not care about megapixels. That was my first digital “crush”, my new crush has been the X-Pro1 for the last few years.
Than get a Hasselblad. Why are you looking at Fuji if it is not good enough for your professional ambitions? So as a professional you are seriously spending your time on a board explaining Fuji needs to improve their cams? What a waste of time. Use your valuable time making professional pictures and pick a brand that offers what you need.
Sjoerd: I am not a professonal, i am an artist. I can go MF analogue (digital is a no go $$$) or a good 35mm (or crop). Because my work now is on the field, a hasselblad on the streets is impossible, that’s why i used a discrete Fuji, i want to look like a tourist, not a professional.
You’re so disappointed ! My advise: don’t come here anymore, it will frustrates you every time.
C’mon enjoy your Sony and talk about it @ Sonyalpharumors !
I have an x100s. Love it. Next year in summer I’m going to a superb place. I have good Nikon glass that sleeps because my D200 is bulky and old and I now had nearly 2 years of so much fun with the Fuji that I just can’t grab my trusty, heavy DSLR. In spring 2015, I’ll be ready to give something like 2’000 $ for new equipment in order to come home from my travelling with a big smile looking at my photos. I’d love to invest in a nice Fuji with the 35 and 50 lenses. But if the offer is still the same xTrans-sensor, even if it’s rather cool (but it burns highlights more than others, can’t help it), I might save half of my money and buy an ugly, bulky D610. Or add a bit of money and go for the Sony a7II with 2 nice Zeiss primes. Please, Fuji, give me a compact body with an up to date sensor, so that I can enjoy the lightness and simplicity of your mirrorless system for some good long years.
I’ll join the crowd in being disappointed. This segment is already covered by the X-E2. C’mon Fuji, give us a new X-Pro with a better sensor/AF speed.
Not in the same form factor; and the new XPro is clearly on it’s way, just a little patience 🙂
Pfff, patience. Who has that in this society? I WANT IT NOW! *grabby hands*
lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8
Basically (edit, dammit, Disqis doesn’t support animated gifs…. http://i.imgur.com/lhjhbB9.gif)
🙂
I’m fine with the 16MP sensor! The IQ is great and the files aren’t so big. Also low light capability should be much better than 24MP. Maybe Fuji just should improve the 16MP sensor so that its low light capability is nearly as good as the A7s.
That’s what I think too. If their goal is to lower the price, they won’t add a bunch of new features or a new/better sensor.
I’m sure an X-E2 in an X-T1 body (without WR) would be a good strategy considering the X-T1’s layout is one of its most appealing feature.
I was thinking they would use the X-A2 bayer sensor considering that was the $100 price difference between the X-A1 and the X-M1. Would also differentiate it further from the X-T1. Time will tell!
I think this whole x-T10 will be a total failure for Fuji.
They shouldn’t do this. Fuji doesn’t need it and imho its harmful for the brand.
I’ve generally used my cameras until the “wheels fall off”. I’ve never had an issue with the age of the sensor degrading my images. For those getting all bent out of shape, do you replace your camera body every time a new sensor is released? If so, does this tactic improve your photography skills? I don’t get it!
+100
Big D, you are Fuji’s worst customer. This model is not targeted at you. It is targeted at new consumers, with the hope that they will buy this instead of a cheaper Nikon or Canon.
You maybe right for this particularly rumored XT10 since I’m already an XT1 shooter. I definitely don’t have plans for a new body anytime soon. However, I will continue to invest in XF lenses so I’m sure Fuji wouldn’t mind that. To your point, I don’t think I’m Fuji’s worst customer. Far from it, I switched from Nikon last year; maybe I’m the exact customer Fuji is targeting. With that being said, I’m confident that the sensor in my XT1 (very outdated, according to some) will continue to provide me with great results.
This is not a bad move by Fuji. You can’t please everyone all the time. Coming out with a sensor upgrade for XT10 would alienate some current XT1 owners. Better to release upgrades in higher end/flagship products.
As to SLR form factor, most people under 60 do not relate to a rangefinder form factor. The great majority of the market is more comfortable and familiar with the SLR style. It’s almost a no brainer for Fuji not to exploit that market. XT1 even includes ISO dial and although Olympus makes cameras that look like an SLR, they work more like a DSLR. So Fuji is almost alone in going this retro both with RF and SLR. As far as large landscape prints, Genuine Fractals (or it’s successor PR) cannot handle this?
I agree wholeheartedly with you.
I don’t know Genuine Fractal so well but you can have a look at QImage (windows) it presents itself as a software RIP and does a fantastic job.
Genuine Fractals was renamed Perfect Resize by onOne Software several years ago. It’s pretty good but no algorithm is as good as original capture size. Thing is, very very few people need to make prints of a size so large that a good resizing algorithm won’t help.
Seems like yesterday when Fuji was promising they were different, they would only release new models when there was a substantive difference, they were against the whole industry model proliferation thing.
Instead they introduce yet another 16mp mirrorless camera. Just what the dwindling consumer base demanded.
May I respectfully ask where you pick the “dwindling consumer base” from ? If that was the case, Fuji would probably not releasethat many lenses (and plan for more) in such a short amount of time
The consumer base for fine cameras has fallen, is falling off a cliff, with no relief in sight. The demographic is aging, since those are the people who still fill leisure time with ‘hobbies.’ Most camera makers are in a fight for survival of that LOB, and anxious for any sign of sustained profitability. Hopefully in light of that Fuji can continue to release more lenses.
May be in your neck of wood (or probably mine for that matter); but you discount too rapidly what is essentially vast emerging markets for camera manufacturers : China / Middle East / India and they have not started to concentrate yet on South America or Africa.
And in our markets, I find people in the 30′ and 40′ show a renewed interest in photography. People are getting more and more used to taking pictures and sharing them on social medias and after seeing rather poor results from camera phones they could look elsewhere. Camera phones can be excellent if you spend €500+ on a phone, below that results vary from “not that great” to “pretty poor”; You just have to look at the comments on the lower end of the phone market (by all means the largest segment). They all invariably talk about how the camera in their phones is useless.
On these two accounts, I’d tend to dispute the ‘dwindling consumer base’
This camera will essentially be the X-E2 with central prism, but no larger EVF. No more resolution. I can buy a used X-E2 for 450 bucks now, so why buy this unnecessary camera?
It is true that most people do not really *need* more than 16MP, but stagnation is never a good signal to the consumer. This will be the 14th camera with this sensor.
I bet it will have the same EVF as the X100t, that alone made me sell the X100s and get the T
I do not believe so, I think the goal is to have a cheap entry level SLR like model; So this light be a little too advanced; but in fairness I don’t know.
This camera is probably not for you but for the millions of untapped people out there who haven’t tried (or heard of) Fuji who would rather have the more popular SLR style.
This. The camera makes perfect sense. Olympus hit gold with the OMD line when the “rangefinder” PEN line was failing miserably. I’ve never been a fan of the slr look, but that’s where the money is, as the xt1 showed clearly.
Xpro – top of the line rangefinder aimed at studio people, no weather sealing
Xe – cheaper xpro
Xt1 – top of the line dslr aimed at photojournalists and such, weather sealed
Xt10 – cheaper xt1
The lineup makes perfect sense from a product offering perspective with little overlap. Sure the xt10 and XE mighy be the same camera, but they LOOK different, and in the cheaper offering, looks are more important than features.
As you clearly know there’s much more to a camera than the number of pixels… Considering the X100T, XT-1 (barely a year old), X30 each bringing it’s own set of innovations – from mixed OVF/EVF; fast EVF; Electronic shutter to name a few, the Fuji guys do not exactly rest on their laurels.
Add to that all lenses released in 2014 and planned for 2015 … not exactly stagnant either.
True it is the same sensor on the surface – last generation brought mixed PDAF/CDAF and electronic shutter.
I’m more confused than disappointed, as everyone is saying…..this is an XE2 with a different shell. Unless there’s somthing new???……
That’s the point; I think many potential buyers do not really like the X-E/X-P form factor; more used to an SLR shape. And the X-T1 is a bit expensive as an entry into the X System; I think that from Fuji’s perspective it is a clever move. If proven true; so far – just a rumor
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head….could be great for fuji if it sells 🙂
I hope so ! It means that the new feature(s) that drives on software will be available too for the X-T1, later on (Kaizen philosophy) !
Kaizen philosophy refers to an organization’s internal efforts to increase process efficiency and minimize waste across all business functions. It has nothing to do with post-sales consumer product support. (Unless the organization supporting it is subject to increased efficiencies).
Well, essentially the X-T1 is an XE2 with a different shell. True, with a few additional features unrelated to final image output.
Well… Fuji does not have many sensors to begin with.
Well, in words: “One”. Yeah, kindof like “not many”. And basically the same as on day one of the X system. (apart from PDAF).
I think there are at least 3. Two generations for x-trans, and one generation for Bayer sensor.
I’m definitely surprised. Will be verrry similar to the xt1. I was kinda hoping for the xa1 sensor as that would lower the cost and differentiate it from the xt1 even more
The A7S sensor is full-frame; making an APS-C sensor that good at low light just isn’t in the cards.
The point of a cheaper T1 is missed … forget Sensor and EVF and start to think PASM dial and a price point closer to an Canon EOS 6xx. An SLR version of the M1 if you will, or even the A1.
I disagree. Entry level cameras are being eaten by smart phones. Producer and pro is where fuji is aiming. The xt1 is still very expensive compared to other entry producer cameras
I disagree too. Olympus E-M10 also an entry-mid level camera (cheaper than an EOS 750D), but very popular in the mirrorless community.
Cameras without EVF eaten by smartphones, this is the correct consequence.
Predicting this model will introduce touch UI and touch setting of focus point.
That software will end up on the X-Pro
And last to get it will be the X-T1s and X-E3
Fuji doesn’t make or design their own sensors anymore.
I don’t think it’s as easy as “improve the sensor in low light.”
Surprised to see some negative comments..for every pricier camera there should be a cheaper alternative…for XPRO1 its XE1/E2..now for XT1 its XT10..ultimately its which style of camera you want range finder or slr type…I liked it….
In fact I would like to see cheaper version of X100S too…with no hybrid view finder…for all those who complain about sensor..wait till end of 2015…when XPRO 2 arrives
I’m surprised no one mentions the tilting screen. To me it’s essential. I came into the X fold with X-10 and X-S1 and replaced them both with an X-M1. A wonderful camera with a very capable sensor and some shortcomings. I would never switch to more expensive Fuji X model without a tilting screen. The X-10 is not an X-E2 in SLR disguise, it’s a cheaper version of the X-T1 which I can’t afford. I hope I can afford the X-T10.