Well, it seems that we are following the right hint with the Fujifilm X-T10.
In fact, another source, who was right in the past (SRP) confirmed that Fuji will indeed release the Fujifilm X-T10… and we now have the first specs shared by this source:
– no weathear sealing
– smaller EVF
So the full rumored specs list so far is: (SRP = source right in the past / NeS = New Source)
– Name: X-T10 (SRP + NeS)
– cheaper version of the X-T1 (SPR + NeS)
– no weather sealing (SRP)
– smaller EVF (SRP)
stay tuned on FujiRumors
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75 Responses
That does seem to be the camera maker’s way. Take something popular and splinter a model off and hope it sells. Rather than a coherent strategy of camera models they have to stratify models to fill in every price gap they can think of. Instead of that approach I wish Fuji would basically stick to 3 lines max:
X-Pro for quality build rangefinder
X-T for quality build DSLR body style
X-A for quality consumer style
Simple, easy to understand, targets the need towards those who actually buy cameras now (enthusiasts, prosumers, pros), and focuses resources on making it the best experience possible.
I almost agree with you, but I would exchange your X-A line with the X-E line. Fuji should use the 1,4m dot EVF for it to cut costs but keep the experience rangefinder-like and add a tilting LCD just to stay competitive. This way Fuji could also unify the UI on all their cameras, something not possible with the X-A/X-M due to the smaller body and fewer dials. Would keep more people in the system and make any decision on an second/back-up body a lot easier.
I think there’s a place for the X-E range, as well: intermediate rangefinder style for enthusiasts with a little more money to spend. I wouldn’t want my only choice for a rangefinder-style camera to be the Xpensive X-Pro. So maybe there’s room for an X-T10 in that same range: center-mounted EVF, but otherwise the same, more or less.
As long as they keep the shutter and ISO dials the same as the XT.
I bounced back and forth on the X-E. I have had both of them. I think in a contracting market I’d aim my cameras squarely at the prosumer mark. The X-E is nice but very similar to the X-Pro. They could be folded together without much loss.
The big question is if there are only 3 models and they were internally made more modular would the prices be the same? On one side there’s economy of scale and simplicity making the costs less. On the other side is not having to raise the prices of the upper end to make up the loss leaders not making money on the consumer end.
I think they should be kept separate.
X-E is basically what was NEX6/7 and is now a6000. Prosumer and highly competitive.
The X-Pro is fetish market. For weirdos with impractical and very specific tastes.
I have never understood those Fuji marks but I haven’t even really tried to. Like to me its easy to understand PEN, OM-D and then E-M1, E-M5, E-M10. But even E-PL, E-PM, E-P were difficult to understand (Mini, Light what ever).
It is like no one on camera market knows how to market their cameras, was it Fuji, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax etc. All are terrible names and model variants. It is like Microsoft and Nokia on mobile phone side.
At least Apple has kept somewhat things in order with names (iPhone, iPad, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro etc). But I am still waiting that someone would have courage to start using year/month in product names like Canonical did with Ubuntu versioning (the only good thing in that).
So how about
X-T13 and X-Pro12 etc?
I think there’s some room there for the XE line 😉 No optical viewfinder (EVF only), prosumer rangefinder, in a smaller form factor than the X-Pro. But right, the X-T10 makes little sense to me. However, going for pairs like this is not entirely unreasonable (actually, not sure what Fuji wants)
2 DSLR style mirrorless:
X-T1 weather sealed, larger (EVF, body), X-T10 cheaper counterpart.
2 Rangefinder style mirrorless:
X-Pro line weather sealed, larger, hybrid viewfindr, X-E line smaller, EVF only, non-weather sealed.
No viewfinder, entry level APS-C: X-A line.
Maybe keep the X30 at the bottom, preferably with 1” sensor.
Would this make sense?
I thought about the X-E line but I think in this contracting camera market folding it into the X-Pro line would work just fine. They could also take the opportunity to modularize a bit. Make an X-Pro base camera (or X-T) and let users pay for specific modules to add into it like GPS or higher rez sensor, whatever, for a certain cost. It would still be the same camera model just with more options. Similar to how laptops and computers are done now.
I was leaving all the non-interchangeable cameras off for now.
Yeah, I was thinking in interchangebles only. I think keeping the x100 line is a no-brainer 🙂
Modularity at that level (speccing out your camera on Fuji’s site, for example) sounds cool, but don’t see it happening short or midterm. Should it happen? Maybe, I haven’t given it much thought. It does sound like an intriguing idea.
Short term, I think the solution is to have a clear product line, with good differentiation and solutions. Nikon did it well in the D3/D300 era. For rangefinder shooters, an X-Pro/X-E combo makes a lot of sense, very good pairing. Same for those who prefer the X-T1 style. You don’t need weather sealing all the time. The bigger body could be paired with the heavier lenses. Etc.
An open-source firmware and it would be even better !
Weren’t weather sealing and a larger EVF the biggest features of the X-T1 over the X-E2? So is this going to be more or less an X-E2 in an X-T1 shaped body?
More or less yes. As far as we know?
True but they are further separating the two by firmware capabilities. For example, the electronic shutter didn’t make it to the X-E2. Same with the customization of the Q menu.
If this is cheaper than an X-E2, it should sell well. And, many like the SLR style, as Fuji has designed the X-t1 very nicely. If it has a Bayer sensor, it would likely sell even better.
The mirrorless market needs cheaper options with EVFs. Mirrorless cameras are generally rather expensive. If there were better cheaper options, they would make a greater dent in DSLR sales.
Yes, maybe the end of the X-E line. No X-E3 but a X-Pro 20.
So we have :
X-Pro 2 and X-Pro 20 (X-Pro1 phased out). RANGEFINDERSTYLE.
X-T1 and X-T10. DSLRSTYLE
X-A series. CONSUMERSTYLE
I’m guessing the same Bayer sensor as the xa1
This is an xe camera. Xe2 with viewfinder in center. Seems specs are roughly the same as xe2
Except no built-in flash… :>(
Another “noseless camera”…
I hope they won’t drop the XE line.
Thing with the E-Ms is that they mess those numbers up, too. There isn’t a clear path of functionality. And when one gets updated the number scheme gets even more confused.
Absolutely agree on the terrible naming! You know what I’d love to see as a camera model? Buttkicker. Who wouldn’t want to buy the Fuji Buttkicker? Best dang camera ever!
I wouldn’t want a Buttkicker.
Panasonic has a great series of names: Lumix, Venus Engine. Had I the money, I’d buy an m43 system just to see if those names live up to the mental images they inspire. Though if the rumors about the upcoming organic sensor pan out, and the accompanying lenses are good… well, now. Maybe.
Fuji? EXR. X-Trans. X-this, X-that. sigh… Hope to see the same organic sensor in one of their products at a price point I can afford somewhat soon…
You meant X-organic right ?
Not sure what you mean, but from what I’ve read, Fuji & Panasonic are collaborating on the production of the Fuji-developed organic sensor, with Panasonic set to release a model this year. I can’t find the link at the moment, but this is all rumors, rumors, and more rumors. (Imagine that.)
They’d cut more cost without the EVF. They could make it an optional one like the Nikon V3. The big thing is making it clear to the user which one they’d want.
If they use a Bayer sensor without an AA filter, and they sell it for $600-800, it will be a smart move. For some, the X-T1 is a little to expensive; and, for many, the X-Trans sensor is a turn off.
Many would love a Fuji X-Series camera, but want a normal workflow. And, a cheaper X-T1 with a Bayer sensor would be a far better option than a Canon Rebel series camera – better design, size, lenses and image quality. Even with an X-trans sensor, it would be a better choice.
I thought of this as well. Bayer sensor, no WR and a smaller EVF should reduce the cost by a wide margin. But, if Fuji removed the current 16mp X-Trans sensor in favor of the Bayer sensor in the X-A1 and X-A2, we’d also lose the phase-detection autofocus, wouldn’t we? Are we sure we’re willing to accept that?
These never-ending iterations of the same thing is becoming ridiculous and desperate… sad…
I wonder if it is going to have a tilting screen and ISO dial. If so, it would really be just a “T1 light”, and probably be priced somewhere between E2 and T1. But if they drop that too, I can only guess that this is the successor of the E2.
@Patrick do you have any info on that?
not for now… all I shared is all I know
Problem : X-T00 after X-T99 (ok, I’m afraid I won’t see this model…)
The lack of weather sealing and the smaller EVF is in accord to what most of us were speculating, the question now is about the X-E line up.
I think Fuji needs to quickly kearn to be consistent in their naming.
First we have the XT-1 where the T means something like ‘tough’ dor its weather resistance.
Second we get the X100T which many assumed would be weather resistant but its not and in this case is for some reason just an alphabetic incrementation starting with S where we will presumably see a X100U next.
Third we have this rumored XT-10 where the T apparently wont mean ‘Tough’ if it is missing weather sealing.
Might as well call it XD-1 for ‘Dumbed down’ or ‘DSLR styled’ and not confuse the meabing of T in model names any further.
Or as some suggest put a Bayer sensor in an xt-1 styled camera and call it XTB-1 or XB-1.
I always wondered that the T on the X-T1 was for telephoto, as this camera was better suited for telephotos.
E is allegedly for enthusiast
T for tough when it’s the X-T1
T for third when it’s the X100T
S for second for the X100s
A for amateur I believe for X-A1
Jajaja, ok, so I guess M is for Middle of nowhere.
M is for ‘My god, who thought a worse sensor in a more expensive camera was a good idea”
Just exactly how much does weathersealing add to the cost? I can see a smaller EVF being somewhat less expensive.
You can get a fully, REALLY sealed underwater camera for $150 or less. Sealing cannot possible cost all that much.
Note that these are non interchangeable lens cameras with far less buttons and knobs. Much easier to manufacture. Not counting the ergonomics.
How is it easy on an underwater camera if it includes LENS, not just body with a huge hole in it? And they are actually UNDERWATER, pressure at 50ft is MUCH MUCH higher than just rain. And they have to withstand drops from 6-7ft. All for $150. Chinese/Vietnamese etc labor is $2/hour, installation of all seals in a single body takes maybe 15-30 minutes (I don’t believe even so long, but let’s assume slow workers), rubber itself is cents. $1 marginal cost. Sealed vs “unsealed” is all market segmentation.
I agree with your point on higher pressure. but there are many pressure rain/dust etc .. entry points in the X-T1 than on a sealed $150 body. Design is longer, build is longer adds to the cost. I agree that it is also a matter of market segmentation.
Again, even if installation of the extra seals takes 1/2 hour or purely manual labor, somewhere in Vietnam is costs all of $1 or so. Even in Japan or US – something like $10.
Not knowing your background in engineering I can’t judge but assuming you’re right I would suggest that you place an offer to Fuji to organise their manufacturing.
I am sure their manufacturing is all right without me. Their marketing also apparently works. 🙂
Here’s a crazy idea.. What if the X-T10 is the first X-series camera with the new 24 MP sensor? Here me out.
Other camera makers have put new technology in their lower-end cameras first. Fuji even did it with the PDAF sensor.
Per Patrick’s more recent post, Fuji Middle East thinks they’re about to double their market share. What’s that based on? Is that limited to ME or is that guy just the first one to say something?
There’s really no reason at this point in time why the 24 MP sensor should have higher costs (buying form Sony) than the 16 MP sensor, all else being equal. But, what’s not equal is Fuji’s volumes. When they switch to the 24 MP sensor in the X-Pro line, it’s going to be very expensive because they don’t sell many. If they offered the same sensor in a lower priced camera first (or at the same time), they could get the volumes up higher and bring the X-pro pricing down some.
Yes, this would hurt sales of the X-E2 and X-T1, but it won’t take Fuji long to revise those models.
Like I said, kind of a crazy idea…but I think it’s interesting to consider.
I’m thinking the 24mp sensor will show up before long in whatever camera truly replaces the X-T1. So keeping the 16mp sensor in the X-T10 – and possibly even replacing it with the Bayer sensor used in the X-A1 and X-A2 – along with no WR and a smaller (but not too small) EVF would further differentiate the X-T10 from the flagship. And lower the price even further.
Only that sort of upgrade would make sense really. I mean x-e2 is already the x-t1 with smaller evf and no weather sealing. unless x-t10 has something different, it’d end up being two different styled bodies with similar specs. I do really hope it is so. That’d mean x-e2 will get that much cheaper 😛
It wont hurt x-t1 sales though. since that camera is in it’s own league and x-t10 without Weather sealing and bigger EVF will not threaten it.
Yet Olympus has done it over the years with EM-5, EM-1, EM-10, EM-5 II; Four models with similar silhouette, with photo output quality virtually indistinguishable from each other, and will probably release yet more variations with similar identical output.
Not going to happen. 16mp for the x t10 and higher mp for next x ti. It’s more market perception. Making x t10 have a newer sensor would cannibalize current xt1 sales.
Bottomline, entry level will have old sensor and higher models will have newer sensor.
Fuji would sell more if they would make a deal with electronic consumer stores to put their cameras out of the glass cabinet and onto the hands-on shelves where customers can actually play with the cameras.
What you see now everywhere is Sony, Canikon & friends have their products not only displayed but ready for hands-on playing and shooting in-store. The only guy missing here is Fuji. Their stuff is hidden at places where no customer can see them. You have to explicitly ask for Fuji products.
I think it’s a marketing problem. Fuji should either get rid of their low-end cheap P&S cameras, or do more aggressive marketing to drag away customers from the lower and middle ranged DSLR segment.
No idea, just talking crazy talk.
Not completely crazy;
I was in a Fuji event yesterday and had that very same conversation with one of the reps. He said that they were aware of it but went from 0 to where they are today in 3 years and it takes time for the distributors to adjust and accept to finance some stock available for display. Canikon & friends have been available for much longer and are seen as less of a risk. Although it is slowly changing
X-E2 with a useless hump. Wha?
They’d better produce weather-sealed X-E3 with BETTER EVF instead of unsealed X-T1 with worse EVF. And add (good!) IBIS please for all the OIS-less primes and 16-55/2.8. And use Samsung BSI-CMOS sensor and processor from NX1, forget the X-crap. And use your 16-55/2.8 as a kit lens. Then it will be an ideal kit, an envy of the world.
Fuji realises that they need an entry level DSLR style body, just like in the good’ol days where a camera “looked like a camera” and not a glorified shapeless rectangle. I think this is what the X-T10 will provide them with.
I’d be all for it. I prefer the rangefinder design but give me a no frills camera. To save money just cut out the video, lower the framerate to 5fps, fixed rear screen and dull finish. A smaller EVF, remove weather sealing and UHS-1 SD speeds would bring cost down as well. The added benefit should be a longer battery life. This might end up being a popular workhorse camera.
Just leave the tilting screen – my knees & back are not what they used to be after all these years lugging my Nikons around 🙂
In the GOOD old days cameras looked like rangefinders, not DSLRs. 🙂
I was not taking pictures at that time, can only talk about what I know 🙂
Another 2012 16mpx X-Trans sensor would be totally delusional..
Depends on price point.
probably only 10-20% off full fat X-T1, this will give the platform to launch a even more expensive model (Xpro-2 or XT2). XT1 was unexpectedly successful, so they will get the price “right” this time….
I’d expect it to be much lower than the X-T1 price at launch
Sad ? … I disagree. Not every market is the same – an entry level DSLR-style body made from existing parts (read minimal R&D costs) should allow Fuji to position it a fairly low price point. That’s a clever marketing push I would say. In the meantime they have build a very impressive glass range which is where the margin is. And this X-T10 couls serve as a good point of entry in the system.
We’d also lose a fairly distinctive image look. For an entry level body I would not think users have a solid definition of what D describes as a “normal” workflow; As a possible inexpensive second body – next to my X-T1 – I would want a X-trans sensor
Actually, you don’t lose much in the way of ‘look’, since that’s mostly in the CFA and processing chain and not the sensor itself. The X-Ax bodies retain the Fuji look very well and use Bayer sensors.
You do lose the poor chroma resolution and watercolouring in some situations though.
X100 has a Bayer sensor also
Fuji is confused. It wants to be the premium leader, as Marketing-Boss just said in another article. So they now release a dumbed down, decontented model that is state of the art for 2011 and proudly brand it as a Fuji?
They recently released a series of low-end X models that result in poor sales, and since they learned from this, they will release another low-end X model.
Fuji, you need to be looking forward. If you had released the XT1 Junior first, no one would have cared. Instead, your focus seems to be downward, backward.
Oh, I almost forgot the obligatory comment on fairy tale technology so that I can prove how trendy I am, so here goes: Blah blah organic sensor blah blah blah organic blah blah.
Unfortunately what sells best is the cheapest.
By all reports the X-T1 is the best-selling Fuji, followed by the X-A1.
What sells best is value.
Well most fuji users today are high end users in general. High-end circle is small, which you can infer from market share. Fuji only have ~7% of mirrorless market. But when fuji talked about rolling out entry level cameras, they are saying they want to be popular among average users.
Looking at the full X-line up for 2015 I think there’s actually a place for both E2 and T10:
A2 16M $550
E2 16M $800 +EVF, +X-Trans
T10 16M $1000 +Tilt screen, +ISO dial
T1 16M $1300 +bigger EVF, +WR
Pro2 24M $1700 +HVF, +higher res
I think you could say that this shows a focus on the high-end market because they drop the M1 in favour of the much more expensive T10.
If the X-T10 comes with the X-A2 sensor (or a 20/24MP Bayer), I’ll buy immediately
I’m in the same boat. I wonder if they’ll bundle it with the xc 16-50mm, 18-55mm xf or the xf 18-135mm?
Probably the 18-55, that’s what the X-E2 gets. Wouldn’t mind the 16-50 either, it’s a solid little lens, especially with the recent update.
I’d expect an X-E2 spec EVF as well (ie same panel as X-T1, but the lower-cost, lower magnification optics that the X-E2 has)
Yeah I’m hoping for the 18-55mm. Otherwise I’ll buy just the body and pick up a used 18-55