Image courtesy: Imaging Resource.
Imaging Resource tested the new Olympus E-M5II 40 megapixel “High resolution Shot” mode and compared it with the Nikon D810 36 MP images:
While the two images are fairly similar in most respects for overall sharpness and clarity, the one clear difference is the lack of moiré in the E-M5 II on the green label, where the D810 produces obvious moiré artifacts. The results at ISO 1600 are equally interesting, even here with in-camera JPEGS and default noise reduction settings. The shadow area at the top right tends to produce ISO noise in most cameras by this time, and while the D810 handles it about as good as most any camera we’ve tested, the E-M5 II also handles it surprisingly well and even produces slightly sharper results in the mosaic tile pattern.
With the obvious limitations (tripod needed, no moving objects) the Olympus 40MP “trick” really seems to work very well!
Preorders (if you preorder through those links you will support 43rumors…thanks!):
E-M5II in Black or Silver at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus. In Europe at Jessops, WexUK, Namencolor.
14-150mm II lens at Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
FL-LM3 Flash at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
Olympus ECG-2 External Metal Grip at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
Olympus HLD-6P Battery Grip at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
HLD-8g at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
E-P16 eyecup at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
HLD-8G and HLD-6P kit at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
Full leather case at Amazon, Adorama and GetOlympus.
Olympus PT-EP13 Underwater Housing at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
Olympus Stylus Tough TG-860 at Adorama, BHphoto and GetOlympus.
241 Responses
I’m seriously impressed. This has huge potential for tripod macro photography of still subjects. Early morning macro photography of insects, requires no movement. Often shutter speeds are slowish, and any slight movement destroys resolution. So the 2 seconds is no bar. Likewise for focus stacking in the field you need stillness. You’d be able to make some super detailed stacked images with this camera. I only mention this because product photography, still life, general studio work, and landscapes have been mentioned, but not this other use. Of course it would be no good for handheld macro work. However, there diffraction and motion blur often eat into resolution, so you don’t need super high resolution there, as it’s often difficult to take advantage of all the ordinary resolution available.
as someone who has used a 200MP hasselblad i can only tell you don´t be to impressed.
the use is very limited. but hey.. it´s nearly a free lunch.
Hmm, I did give a very limited example of where it would be useful – or didn’t you actually read what I wrote?
Actually i don´t care what you wrote, i write about my experience.
Yep, you get what you pay for. The D810 (which costs 3 times the E-M5II) “hands-down” is able to render detail in moiré that the E-M5II is not able to resolve even in the least. Incredible.
@KLL3 – So you are just trolling then? The only thing you claimed was that you had used a 200mp Hassleblad. Where? In a shop for 3 minutes?
Yeah correct, no way he bought it. That’s clear enough.
I rented it sometime ago and it works, but on the Hasselblad it IS a very slow process due to the mechanical shutter, it really takes 4 normal shots and combines them. The output are hugh files that are not that easy to manipulate/pp if needed, you need a lot of computing power and a lot of cards/storage. But than again you’d probably remotely link up on a laptop like I did.
The Olympus is lightning fast in comparison.
Did I say you need specific software, since not every photo editor can handle such large files.
That’s my whole point and why I am seriously considering getting the E-M5 mkII. It seems entirely usable to me. I would just like this resolution for when things are perfectly still. Generally with this type of tripod macro, the subject has to be perfectly still, because early morning there is never enough light for a fast exposure.
I think the E-M5 II has huge potential for this, and high quality focus stacking, where everything has to be perfectly still anyway. It sure beats getting and carrying around a Pentax 645Z system, just for when you might need it. Whereas for handheld or small aperture macro photos, you struggle to get more than 16mp worth of picture information.
The f8 limitation is easy to get around, just by using a simple 2-3 photo focus stack.
If it was limited, thats on you.
It’s ok to be stupid, but you really have too much time on your hands.
Is that your excuse?
this is pretty much useless for everthing outside still-lifes in the studio.
even a bit of wind will ruin the extra resolution when doing landscapes.
Your nick sums your post up nicely…
🙂
…and pretty much very useful for still-lifes, studio work, product photography, food photography, astrophotography, architecture and landscapes on calm days.
Stupid Olympus, what were they thinking.
that´s what he wrote moron…..
Oh look, nonsense got his mum, calculator, to have a word with the nasty man. You tell him mum.
Trying to be funny now? That’s funny…
Useful for astrophotography? Tell those stars to stop spinning!
Learn how it works before BS moron….
Are you zeikon? Or bop800? Or Brian? Get those fingers out of yer butt finally!
Ah, a member of the Catholic church.
And another cuunt post answered. Yoours!
LOL
A bit of wind will ruin resolution of every camera, if the tripod is not steady. In this case, however, software can help alignment of each separate shots, since they are simply translation and rotation of other images – and you have many of them.
I take serial shots of landscapes on a timelapse to reduce noise and it works just fine. Shots are just as sharp as a single exposure some 90% of the time.
I have never seen m43 snapshooter with a tripod….
I shoot all my long exposures (> 2 secs) with a tripod. Not to mention my time-lapse shots…
It’s not really an issue as my tripod is less than 30cm and weighs next to nothing.
Hi,I know close to nothing about photography, can you or anyone hear give me advise on a tripod for all around use including multi day backpacking trips ( light weight would be very important). I’d be using an e-510 for now ( maybe get a used e-m5 for weather sealing). Thanks 🙂
Get something with three separate legs, with adjustable angles. I don’t know how much you want to spend, but carbon fiber will be lighter, but more expensive. There are prices for every pocket, with cheap ones like slik, slight pricier like vanguard or manfrotto, 3LT and then gitzo. E-510 is not very heavy, so almost every tripod will be fine.
I’ve been using a Velbon Ultra Maxi (L or M, not sure which model), the whole Ultra line was designed for smaller cameras. It extends to about 60-65″, folds down to 14″, and is 2-3 lbs. I know other major tripod vendors make lightweight lines too that are designed for mirrorless/lighter & smaller cameras.
As someone else already said, Velbon is really good. They are very flexible and of very high quality.
I have a UT 53D and a UT 43D and both have a folding sizes under 30 cm and I can use them comfortably with my height of 185cm.
And they can be carried around in a backpack all day.
I do have a E-520, which is in size and weight just like the E-510, and it works well on both of the tripods. Although if you use a heavy lens the UT 53D has a somewhat better and more robust head.
Gitzo (used) or Manfrotto (used or new). Good heads, too: the cheapest proper head I found is a Manfrotto 486, about 200 bucks. The 410 plaque (“quick release”) is a good place to start, expensive too.
then you have never seen a serious photographer with a MFT camera! 🙂
Maybe because there are no serious M43 photographer….
I have never seen a photog with a m43 toy…
+1
I use a tripod all the time.
http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p794/An0nemu5/Forum/71f675c4-7e8f-42ce-bdd3-4842800d70dd_zpsrdzt3fsj.jpg
Nice, the OMZ 300mm f/4.5!
Hey..look he photographed a beer label and it is actually in focus!
It’s no “trick”. You need a tripod with the D810 to get the full resolution also.
maybe you need tripod.. mr. parkinson.
LOL.. serious mft photographer is an oxymoron.
every serious photographer will use a similiar sized aps-c camera today.
Tell us about the ‘serious’ 16-50 and the ‘serious’ Sony zooms with soft edges, seriously 🙂
m43 = tomorrows P&S
Just like people predicted the doom of 4/3 which evolved into M43. Just like they laughed at Live View and SSWF (why would I need such a newfangled innovation when I love to clean my sensor twice per day), Mirror Less, IBIS and now this new sensor addon.
Pretty much every time Olympus creates a new feature no one has it gets replicated a few years down the road by the rest.
Its gonna be hot with Olympus, Panasonic and Samsung leading the pack. Hopefully they wont catch the status quo fever like Nikon and Canon.
No, it cannot… Are you girls still asking?
are you able to see the moire on the D810 shot? on the green label… no, upper, near the top… now look carefully at the pic on the left… do you see moire here?? no, on the same green label… duh… so why do you scream like a girl?? tech moves on… you should be happy and smiley…!
someone was saying earlier how this will be a great product photography camera. I agree!!!!! I may actually get one for that reason alone.
Neither pic is in focus. Please give us some tests with real cameras, those normally get the focus done.
Vaseline stocks are flying high,as Olympus has given the sensor size trolls some serious buttpain and chafing
Here is a piece of yer butt.. Or is it yer brain? They look confoundingly similar.
🙂
You can use Vaseline for your pain…
Listen to harrydicktom. Canon has been bending him over for years.
You know about bending over, right?
I know you are, but what am I? That’s the best you can do harrydicktom?! LOL.
I can see the room has been hard on you. Do you want me to tell them to go easy on you little buddy?
You cannot speak clearly, but at least you are ashamed of your pervo habits.
I wouldn’t be so sure. He is the official forum poofter.
Two responses (under of course two names) in less than 30 minutes. Good to see my little stalker is still obsessive. Sorry, I meant sad, not good.
‘Pervo’? That’s the best you can do? I hope you’re doing better on the Sony site. You’re embarrassing yourself here buddy.
It must su*k to be you, with people taking the mickey and all. Remember never to leave the internet alone too long: someone could post embarassing things. Always be there to delete them at once.
Sadly, this leaves no time to learn photography, or do any useful work. What a loss.
Wow… Biased Admin?
M43 trolls can troll other format users, but not vice-versa?
Communism at its finest at work here.
Which forums are being trolled by 4/3 users?
Has anyone else noticed that Troll time corresponds to US time?
It has to do with Pearl Harbor..
HA! Y’all Europeans are good at that…
-It’s called Propaganda.
But hey, blame the Americans, if it makes you sleep at night…
Ops, accused the coup
WAIT WHAT !? ADMIN ACUTALLY MODERATED/DELETED A POSTS !? HOLY…GUYS !! GUYS !! HE EXISTS ! ADMIN ACTUALLY MODERATED SOMETHING IN THIS HELL HOLE! OMG!
No, you should look a bit closer
Fantastic! but only when you can use it or bother to use it, like 1 in 10,000 of your shots.
I have 10,000 b&w negatives. I intend to use it on 100% of them.
No kidding, very good and lots faster than the scanner.
Well, the Camera Store review video has a comparison with Pentax 645.
The details are similar, except for smoke from chimneys….
Sick commenters Herr
They leave out some info. Would like to know what lenses were used for each and if the exposure is off or the picture controls are that different. The EM5 looks way too bright versus the D810.
Zuiko Digital 50mm f/2 Macro on the Olympus, and some f/2.8 lens that has 70mm in it on the Nikon, maybe the 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, both shot at f/8. Which should come close to the sweet spot for full frame, but is already a bit over it for FT. (I find no mentionable issues with the exposure, though.)
So a prime vs a zoom…. Hm.
Typical Un-Biased M43 Comparison…
As far as I can tell, Imaging Resource isn’t really known for biased comparisons, and they, just as dpreview, tend to choose the lenses which they think get the most out of the cameras they test. Whatever lens it was they used on the D810, they seem to think that stopped down to f/8 it services the 36 MP sensor well. Do you have reason to believe otherwise?
If ALLCap can do a negative comment to an Olympus product, he will for sure do it. Nothing new here.
I wonder if this will shatter the cognitive dissonance of a few trolls, or if they will remain subhuman and continue to be total asspimples? The sensor shift effectively proves the future validity of higher resolution sensors for the system. Vaseline stocks skyhigh
I wonder if you will ever go to school and learn some English. Will you?
I can always tell when you’re backed into a corner harrydicktom, you start stealing names again. You haven’t even been using your regular sock puppets.
Has the room been a bit too hard on you?
It’s not ‘they’, it’s ‘him’ and he’ll remain an asspimple.
When he gets cornered he’ll fall back on stealing names. The proof is below. Right harrydicktom?
Is the room being too hard on you these days buddy?
With that avatar and that brain, you should not use the word “subhuman”.
nice try
“Hi Res mode is limited to a maximum of ISO 1600 and a minimum aperture of F8” quoted from dpreview. Does this mean High Res mode will not work with adapted legacy lenses?
I assume the aperture limit is due to diffraction, but I hope the compatibility situation is not the case as I have a few adapted and/or manual lenses myself…
Want to see comparison under high ISO and low light conditions …
To mimic the lack of photographic skill levels that the trolls have in a test?
That’s me posting by the way,
I’ve never used ISO over 1600 on a tripod. That’s the benefit of a tripod.
Unless you need to freeze movement…
There is an ISO 1600 comparison, and the Olympus still seems to win by a small margin. Which is no miracle, though. An eightfold number of exposures beats four times the sensor size.
Damn.. I might get it for my food photography assignments…
do you think it´s worth for the 2 assigments you get a year an the lousy pay…?
Actually I have four assignments on February only.. Brutta cosa l’invidia.. 🙂
be carefull about getting your hair into the soup….
You mean your “will photograph for food” assignments?
No. 🙂
I also will probably get it for my product shots.
I do have a 645Z but this could be a very nice addition.
A phone will do for your selfies…
When I say “product shots” you probably mentally associate it with selfies as you’re selling yourself like a little ho…
Interesting insights into the minds of trolls that hate m43…
🙂
It is “hoe”, dumbo. Do you know what it means? It is a bad word, ask your dad to explain.
resubmitted above
all these trolls comments….. This product must really be good!
inverse ratio – the dumber the troll comments the better the product 🙂
Can you imagine how many of them are now trying to take a picture of a bottle and see if it’s good? 🙂
Sad boy says sad things.
I hope you look better than that gorilla in your avatar.
Nice ad hom 🙂
You actually do look like a gorilla. No need for nerdy jokes, they make it sadder.
1/5 stars. Lack of creativity, just repetition of ad homs. You should try something original next time.
When will we see the results from the 64 MP RAW-plugin for Adobe? Things are moving so slow! If it works well, Im getting the 60mm macro, a UWA lens and a tripod. Good thing the camera is not that expensive.
It clearly out-resolves the D810’s for still subjects, which I shoot a lot of, and it will be even further ahead of the A7II, due to its optics. Pretty amazing, to have this powerful new tool at such a reasonable price and size. Congrats, Oly, another home run!
In addition, as correctly noted below, application of the Inverse Troll Hate Equation seems to indicate a big success for Olympus.
There’s more post complaining about trolls than the troll posts itself.
PTSD?
(Post Troll Stress Disorder)
If they are going to do this comparison – get rid of all sharpening – there are obvious sharpening halos in both images.
Have to admit I was not impressed two weeks ago. But I am slightly interested after seeing some of the reviews, specifically the high res crops. I’m in at 899.
I’ll buy it for 899 at the end of this year.
I doubt it.
Panasonic has its announcement next week which will likely have a GX8 or mark 2 of GX7. My bet would be both of these cameras will be down 30-40% in price by next year, maybe 20% by the end of the year new.
I want to see some 40meg shots with legacy and altermative lenses. Maybe a 28mm ultron and an older one like a 50mm 1.8 pancolar which is still a very good lens but at 40MP may show its age,
Or is the limit on min of f8 mean that there must be some lens feedback to the processor? That would mean only native lenses can be used. Or a new market in adapters opens up.
You have to use a tripod with the 810 too if you want all that resolution it can deliver.
Go to dpreview and look up the “high resolution shots” in raw. Check out the hair. Laugh.
No, the Imaging Resource link is far better.
Or cry. The Oly is ridiculous. Actually, the normal shot beats the “hi res hot” by a mile.
dpreview staff has just confirmed the shots were a) shot without the 0-sec-antishock shutter-shock elimination feature and b) slightly defocused. They said they replaced the images a couple of minutes ago.
I would never pay over 200 for a camera with shutter shock problems. Despite the new gimmicks, it is still there, alive and well.
Right, the problem as such is still there, and it is indeed something no-one really should have to expect in a 21st century digital system camera.
In real life, though, the problem, which has only shown itself in combination with specific lenses anyway, has virtually gone away with the antishock “0 sec” plus shutter-lag “short” settings in my E-M1, so I’ve decided to become relaxed about it.
You couldn’t pay 200 for a camera if you’re life dependend on it.
What’s most interesting is if you switch the image type to Print rather than Full in the hi-res comparison, the images are essentially identical — even at 1600ISO.
There’s actually two “tricks” at work here:
a.) the obvious and much talked-about one is the sensor shift. Having the full colour information for each pixel eliminates moiré.
b.) less talked-about, but perhaps more important in this comparison is, multi-exposure noise-reduction and sharpening. They could also take the 810, mount it on the tripod (preferably – although it even works with handheld, but then will need to be lined up better and have more cropping loss), take a few pictures at the same settings, then make a median stack (PS) / fused stack (Hugin) – that will reduce ISO noise greatly, and maybe improve moiré and sharpness as well.
Or they can click one button on an E-M5ii.
It’s been widely documented that one needs to use only the latest bestest glass on the D810 and A7r to extract their full 36MP resolution. That means >$2000 lenses. The fact that the E-M5ii is even close (or better according to Imaging Resource) with much more affordable lenses is nothing short of remarkable.
The Sony Zeiss FE 55 f1.8 is a 1000$ lens and it’s the best one of the A7 system (and one of the best primes out there no matter the brand). Don’t exagerate with +2000$ because it’s not always the case.
Thanks for that Andrei. It’s good to know. I’d like to see the test again using the M.Zuiko 75 f/1.8 or the M.Zuiko 40-150 f/2.8 for the E-M5ii and the best glass for the Nikon and Sony.
Thats true. This was always part of the attraction of the small sensor plan. They are using the ZD 50mm f2.0 macro for their tests, a lens that costs about $150.00 used.
“The eye of God”, as that 50mm was called in Japan. I’m thinking to get one….
Thats cool, I wasn’t aware of that. Its much sharper at its edges than the 60mm f/2.8 and may be one of the finest macros ever made.
How about a 16 megapixel setting, just for the moire and noise benefits.
I hardly pint, certainly not billboard size, and I’m not keen on buying a new computer to work with these huge files.
Just downsample?
You want to buy a 1100$ camera (body only) but cannot afford a 400$ computer?
Maybe this camera is not intended for you…
You missed his point. Though, with that logic you’d be a prime contender for the recipient of a bookkake session in a new car showroom. Just sign the dotted line.
No low pass filter on the D810 -> bad aliasing patterns in the green area. I’ve never understood why people like these artifacts.
Well, no AA filter has advantages (sharpness) and disadvantages (moire/artifacts).
With the good comes the bad…
Just like with m43 come the envious trolls with crappy gear…
😉
Oh god, we have to explain everything to the whiners!??
But this perceived sharpness is really just distortion. This is basic signal processing stuff – before you sample anything you must get rid of high frequencies (Nyquist theorem). When people obsess about “micro contrast” they’re really just saying “I’m not interested in what’s correct, I just like it distorted” 🙂
Not buying these studio tests. Need someone to do Real life test and show the results. Till now, this seem very limiting since anything moving on the frame even slow will ruin the final image unless you want the motion trails
Really? Thanks for doing everyone on the planet a service and informing us WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW!!! Go read the aforementioned links. The hi-res shot mode is intended for NON-MOVING SUBJECTS!! Like in a studio.
go and buy the gimmick then. prove it actually works and is worth $1100 you will spend.
BTW, why the heck you care about buying a m43 for a studio??? just buy a FF if your darn camera will sit in a studio. the whole point for m43 is to carry around easily. This feature will be useless outside mahjority of times. Worse i won’t use it since on a tiny screen there is no good way to see how well the image came out.
LOL. OK, YOU buy a camera for the studio. And one for portraits. And one for landscapes. And one for street photography. And one for vacations. And one for hiking. And one…
I’ll stick with one camera that I can move to anyplace and use it as I please.
in Mr. David’s dream. go on and be happy with your dream. I’m not the loser. you are since you will spend $1100 bucks of your own money and Lets see how much you use and earn from 40 mp files. Go ahead & Post the stunning pictures which are worth $1100 buck, wake up !! it’s all marketing stunt.
Mmm… Nick got pissed….. All marketing stunt…. hahaha… Ok Nick, you may be right, it doesn’t work actually….
MFT is very good in a studio, the nice weather sealing and greater depth of field are assets, you do not need so much light for product. The best part is the sensor on Olympus cameras stays clean. Having to resort due to a dirty sensor all night is not much fun.
The d810 is nice, but to really get its advantage a tripod should be used too. The best thing about the better Nikon is the service. I know if no better pro service.
Why all the heating about tripods. A gorillapod fits any bag and support this camera and lens easyly
There are really small tripods that are easy to use and quick to set up.
With m43 you don’t need the huge unwieldy monstrosities that are required for heavy APS-C and FF gear…
🙂
Wow, those results are insane. This would be a great camera for product photos. So now I need to see if the pixel shift tech can work with my monolights in the studio. Fingers crossed.
i dont think so it will work…
If you have redheads… then you can do it. Why you have possibility shoot 8s shutter speeds. But with flashes, no.
Laughing at all the trolls all over this web site today. So sad they can’t be happy with the tools they choose, and come in here to put down this phenomenal upgrade of an already outstanding camera. If you trolls think you are hurting m43 user’s feelings, you’re not. You’re just validating our choice with your attacks. I am IRL laughing at your idiotic comments.
I knew I chose the correct system 3 years ago when I pre-ordered the EM-5. The beautiful photographs I have taken, the places I have been with it. You are just mad you are saddled with your choice. Don’t be. Go out and shoot with what you chose, or sell your gear and spend the money on a good therapist Or an EM-5 MkII.
You can see it that way: Every troll post proves that m43 is king!
Why else would the canon/sony/nikon retards hate it so much and spend lots and lots of time trolling it?
🙂
I think this comment could be sorted in the troll-category, too.
This pointless post is a good example of trolling. It shows a petty, insecure mind.
With the obvious limitations (tripod needed, no moving objects) the Olympus 40MP “trick” really seems to work very well! —- Nikon won in this comparison, D810 can hand held and shoot anything while EM5II cannot; too bad this feature just nice to have but did not give full flexibility to photographers.
Trolls are hungry today.
Other limitations should be obvious to you, as well.
With a D810, one won’t nearly be capturing subject matters at full sharpness when shooting hand held, this is well known. However, with the sophisticated built in IS of the E-M5 MkII, the effective captured sharpness is exceptionally high, even in conditions that compromise the files of conventional cameras. This means the gap between these cameras is narrowed in practical use. So, your assertions above, are disingenuous.
And while its true that on tripods, the D810 wins over the E-M5 MkII in terms of flexibility, the M5 is handily out-resolving it when subjects are still, and at 1/3 the price, so it seems strange to be claiming a victory.
So are you saying in daylight and wideangle-to-moderate lens, D810 will suffer blur just because it’s 36 mp?
No, I mean there is reduced critical sharpness when hand held and below fastest shutter speeds. A m4/3 camera should also be subject to this, but the IS more than makes up for this in practice. Also, as you suggested, this matters more at med to long FL’s.
so actually D810 will deliver hi-res pictures of moving objects in daylight and with flash, which em5ii cannot.
A higher resolution, depending on numerous factors, yes.
What do you mean with below fastest shutter speeds?
Difference just won’t be that big, as many imagine. Lenses for ff also have more problems with corner to corner performance.
Higher the resolution, more vulnerable it is for camera shake. Nikon D800e (810), Sony A7r etc are known for those problems.
You need heavy sturdy tripod, extra weight mounted to L-plates or use sandbag over camera to minimize the minor shakes.
And 16Mpix is equivalent to 64Mpix 35mm sensor. 36Mpix adds just 0.5 pixels more detail per pixel. That is negligent. A high quality 16Mpix photo can be englared two times larger without compromising a quality. A high quality 16Mpix photo gives you over 4×3 meter size very high quality photo if you want. Or you can make over 1.5m wide that you can watch even from under meter distance.
Many have returned Nikon D800(e) and Sony A7r because they got blurry shots, they blamed the camera was not not resolving more details at all. What was the problem was that they shot handheld or their tripods were light and small ones that did vibrate or did move and couldn’t keep camera steady enough.
The problem was behind the camera.
Same thing is with long telephoto objectives, you really need very steady shot to get sharp results with larger formats. And you as well require very clean air between you and subject. As with long telephoto objectives at warmer air you get so much dirty and distorted air mass that it ruins the shot, why you are shooting in very cold winter days with them, or like in Africa, you try to shoot at times just before sunrise and after sunset when the air gets cooler.
Again problem is often behind the camera and people have claimed that long objectives were bad because they just tested frames in bad conditions.
16 MP = 64 MP FF? You really don’t understand this at all.
Guess I don’t understand this. I think you are saying that if you handhold a D8xx, somehow it no longer shoots 36mp.
While this is debatable, then by your same token the EM5ii handheld is no longer shooting 16mp, but something significantly less.
IS only works for static subjects, and only provides a benefit at slow shutter speeds. Oly fanboys never seem to be able to figure out that IBIS is not a panacea, nor a guarantee of sharp images, nor a solution to every photographic problem. At 1/500th second, IBIS does nothing, whereas the extra resolution of the D810 is very real.
I’m an m43 shooter, btw, not a Nikon shooter, but facts are facts, and IBIS doesn’t do anything in typical daylight shooting situations, nor many low light situations (those with subject movement).
These comment boards have become so painful to sort through and get any meaningful opinion out of after reading through them. I own a Nikon DSLR…I come here because I love photography, it’s history, equipment and anything related to it. The atmosphere here is akin to a third grade recess hour where Joey makes fun of bobby because his pants are too short and vice versa. Oh well. Humans suck. Always have, always will.
The negative tenor of this site is down to 4 things:
1) It is for the most part unmoderated.
2) A certain rivalry between the two main camps of the m4/3 duality.
3) People who have a seemingly near infinite want for tech that is beyond what is available and who then complain loudly about each and every announcement because nothing can ever be good enough for their unique abilities.
4) People/Trolls who use non-m4/3 systems who seem to think it is their business to come to this site and be utterly negative about absolutely everything.
Although I understand you probably don’t intend it, you fall into the 4th category, which is by far the worst because it is completely deliberate. I can only suggest you find a moderated site if the heat in this kitchen is too much.
Sorry, I think you are wrong in this case. I come in peace to this site and I am categorized in a list. You missed my point entirely. So, you wish to have a segregated website where one can’t browse technology. I am interested in purchasing a mirrorless camera at some point and still haven’t made a decision on what to buy. Maybe in the future, people will be required to scan in their camera serial numbers in order to prove their loyalty to a certain brand. That would be a nice world.
From Pekka Potka’s Journal http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2015/2/3/em5mark2 “The last image with Olympus kit zoom shows how Hires sensor is nothing
without the very best lenses. There are no more actual details in 40 MP
file from kit zoom than what 12-40mm PRO lens can bring out in single 16
MP image.”
No Kit Zoomz, yeah gotta love it.
Is that surprising at all?
Use a prime lens, or one of the PRO zooms. The 75/1.8 would be quite commonly used for product shots, and can almost certainly outresolve an M4/3 sensor at 16MP.
No, 85-90mm (FF) is commonly used, 75mm (= 150mm FF) is a little long for product.
BTW many product shooters use tilt & shift lenses. And the Faux OM-D Pentaprism gets in the way of a T&S adapter. Too bad, I really wanted to use an E-M5-2.
Lately I used 17mm f1.8 – 25mm f1.4 – 42.5mm f1.2 and 60mm f2.8 for products. Some hand held, some on tripod.
On this system primes don’t lack 🙂
The “Faux OM-D Pentaprism” is the EVF! How many times I need to tell you that, there is EVF inside that?!
http://www.photonbox.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/20140216-114723.jpg
That space can’t be used or eliminated. Unless you want to remove the EVF (pretty important for Professional camera) or move it so much further that camera body size increase, it sticks out a lot and blocks even more the tilted screen directly from above.
Yes, the benefit would be that “nosy” people would get more distance while slamming their camera at their face instead to eyebrow.
But Sorry, but you can get Tilt&Shift lenses mounted, it is not impossible.
Super resolution can be done by software such as PhotoAcute. http://photoacute.com
It does not require tripod and moving objects are cleverly handled.
No, let the fools buy into gimmick and when they will be disappointed and use it 3-4 times, they will know.
Exactly. PhotoAcute is just there to multi-sample the photo to eliminate chromatic noise and compression artifacts. Not to increase the resolution (pixels in sensor covering per detail). To get higher resolution, the sensor needs to have more pixels covering the detail. And this Hasselblad and Olympus technology does exactly that, moves sensor (pixels) to use more pixels per detail, doing multi-sampling and then finishing everything to single file.
Nothing that PhotoAcute can do (and PhotoAcute isn’t the best choice to do it, even GIMP has allowed to do it 15 years ago)
Not really. I have used PhotoAcute for years and it is not going to get you anywhere near the res increase that this will. That VERY few lens/camera combinations are supported is also a huge drawback, compared to this approach. The handling of moving objects is often quite clumsy in actual use.
Any super resolution software that suggests that it can get equivalent results and not require a tripod is lying to you.
One of the main reasons that this implementation is valuable is because it works literally pixel by pixel to remove the demosaicing requirements of the color filter array and create full RGB pixels. That’s simply not possible with something like PhotoAcute.
This is a feature computational photography.
I’d be more impressed if it provided aids for making stitched panoramas — e.g. making sure user rotates camera around exit pupil and pointing with arrows where to shift camera
That would be good, surprised it hasn’t been done.
Around exit pupil? You don’t rotate camera around exit pupil but around objective nodal point. And that nodal point exist at different distance on each objective (models, not units). That means you need to have a small slider and move the camera back and forth on tripod to get the nodal point center of the tripod Y axis.
Camera can not tell you that where direction to move it if there doesn’t come very very heavy tracking function where you would place three objects in line front of the camera, tell camera to track the objects while you rotate the camera in Z axis. And then it could tell you to move camera further or closer the Z axis.
http://i.imgur.com/h4bJWI4.jpg
http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/
And then all what you need to do, is to write down the distance for each wanted objective. Next time when you mount the objective and you want to make a panorama, you just read your notes the distance and set the slider to correct distance.
To write a software to do that first task, is as stupid as making a NFC to the camera. Like people have no idea what NFC really is. They believe its some kind fancy high tech that connects devices. No. It is just a RFID for devices (A) to deliver command to another device (B). It is two way protocol where the A tells to B when touching it that example its WiFi SSID is nnnnnnnnn and Password is nnnnnnnnn. Then A knows B is going to connect to it so A enables WiFi hotspot or WiFi Direct and B enables its own WiFi and search the given SSID and use password for it to connect. It can be used to command many other things from bluetooth and WiFi, to every sensor or function in smartphones.
Like the Olympus QRcode is far more smarter to have then NFC in camera. Why?
1. You only initiate Your smartphone once to the camera.
2. You can with a button to enable WiFi in camera later on and open Olympus app and they connect each other.
3. For fast moving multiple photos before taking smartphone out, mark photos in camera to be transferred. Once you open Olympus app it will ask if it copies all the marked photos.
The NFC is a feature that do make things little simpler, but its not really worth to do so.
Like with NFC we can program camera to do multiple things. Like if you have Review enabled in camera with one photo, touching with NFC you could get camera to send only that specific photo to phone and then disconnect. So it would be faster to take a shot, hit review, touch the phone and wait couple seconds.
With QR code you need to hit WiFi, open Olympus app, hit “Copy Photos” and select the photo you wanted and copy it.
NFC makes very much sense in a “social camera”. Like PEN E-PL7.
But if you want, you can buy NFC stickers and stick one in the bottom of the camera, behind the SDcard slot or display. And program then smartphone to do that when it detects the NFC sticker, it enables WiFi, launch Olympus application, selects the “Copy photos”. And all what is left is that you first hit camera WiFi and then you touch smartphone, as camera doesn’t know anything about NFC (just one directional). But it will speed up function.
Why to use this NFC example?
Because the panoramas are rarely done with tripods, few people know about the objective nodal point, even fewer have the required plates. And those who have, have already searched and noted the distances etc. It is just task to required to be done ONCE.
And if even wanted, make a small mark to objective where it is, then it is easy later on to even tilt camera and check that the nodal point is at center of Y axis.
There is no need to get complex software for rarely required task that rarely is done correctly, by those who knows what they are doing.
The camera doesn’t know what is the nodal point position in objectives to even know how much it would be required to move when tilting. Sure we could make again the more complex software where user meters nodal point distance from the objective to image plane (marked in body) and then enters that distance to camera, that stores it to memory. And then when using that objective, camera would use its gyros to meter its rotational axis and write on screen how many millimeters from marked nodal point it is required to move.
So sure, it would be very nice and fancy to take objective, mount it to camera, mount camera to slider, slide camera to nodal point distance and camera would say in screen “+4mm” and user would know that with the current tilting, camera needs to be moved 4mm further from the Y axis and moves camera 4mm back.
But why? The notes can as well give nodal point position in every 15 degree. It makes it very easy to photographer just estimate the required move between those steps.
Ah, of course I’ve made a mistake… around entrace pupil, not exit pupil. Your “nodal point” rant just exposes your lack of education.
Stop comparing it to hi MP ft cameras. Compare it to 16th ft like the new Sony and n ikon df. They can’t give you that option
Sorry my auto correct just blew that whole post
which $1100 sony or nikon are you asking us to compare with???
Chris from the camera store compared it to 645 medium format 🙂
Love it when the army of trolls invade this public space. And it’s a clear indication that Olympus hit them hard in the a*se with the new product. It will be disappointing if it didn’t attract any trolls…
It would be interesting to know what you define as troll and why this in turn correlates with your further statements?
No it wouldn’t. Unless… you feel somehow challenged or offended by those statements?
I just have the impression statements like these are only made to get likes.
well, I don’t think Robbie is entirely right in the second part of this statement. This feature is by no means a challenge to DSLR owners with cameras that easily take pictures at this resolution without gimmicks. I’d prefer native support for higher resolutions to this. But the first and 3rd part are totally correct. Trolls are fun to bash, and the fact that this attracts trolls means that it’s made an impact.
Easily? Using D800e or Sony A7r doesn’t easily allow you to take full resolution sharp photos. With those you need a tripod, you need extra weight mounted to body to avoid mirror slap / shutter shock and yet even then you need longer exposures (as landscape shooter you shoot lowest possible ISO) and very low / non-existing wind ( 6400) department and fast burst focuses (>=10fps).
Higher the resolution, requires lots of changing the shooting manners from even normal cameras. The IBIS changes things totally different direction, where camera movement isn’t concern and you choose shutter speed based motion in scene.
Sure I would take as well a 64Mpix sensor if it would fit to m4/3 body. I am not going to climb anymore to any mountain with a DSLR and especially not with Medium Format or Large Format camera.
The technology has limits, but it isn’t a gimmick. It has its use, while just 30% of the possibilities that D800e and A7r can offer with single exposure, but when you get to that 30% situation where you can use it, its worth it!
Just a note: D810 has EFCS, so you can eliminate mirror slap completely. Critical work requires tripod, but I found the new shutter/mirror mechanism to help drastically in getting critically sharp pictures even handheld. The A7r, however, doesn’t have the EFCS option and mass to damp vibrations. Nevertheless, a nice idea from Olympus.
1) I wouldn’t say no to this feature, I would simply prefer images in the 24-28 megapixel range that are captured by a sensor that is truly capable of those megapixels. That being said I’m very happy with myGM1 and GH4, and have not yet found a need for more megapixels, it’s just that it wouldn’t be a bad thing because you can crop more, and you can downsample to suppress ISO noise with better results.
2) I’m just calling it a gimmick because it’s not a “true” high-megapixel image, it wasn’t really captured at that resolution, it was post-combined.
3) When I say “easily” I mean those cameras can capture such resolutions in one shot without needing to shift the sensor around. I*m not specifically talking about the Sony A7, why are you? I wrote DSLR. They have no problems taking high-res hand-held images without extra weights and tripods.
I disagree. Totally. Explain the files any ways you like, it boils down to what you can do in the end.
(edit) To me, it would be a gimmick if it could be proven that the bloated files aren’t any better than the regular ones.
“I’m just calling it a gimmick because it’s not a “true” high-megapixel
image, it wasn’t really captured at that resolution, it was
post-combined”
But it is real pixels. Its not interpolated and invented by software filling of space between pixels.
The disadvantage compared to a true hi-megapixel image is the need for a tripod and a static subject to photograph. Any movement will cause the image to have “offsets” which will look way worse than ghosting artifacts in HDR. Clouds? Water? Trees? People? With strange stitched lines cutting through them.
A sensor that will take a true high-megapixel image in one capture, will outperform on this “gimmick” on many levels. I’m going to have to remind you guys, I like the idea, I would love to have it on my MFT camera, but we need to get real. We are still behind on megapixels compared to DSLR. It’s not very important, but that depends on what you do with your photos. The MFT sensor’s size mean lower light sensitivity, that means ISO noise, that means limited print size (no posters). I think we need to remind the MFT manufacturers that we really do want higher resolutions, and sensor shift is just not enough – it’s a funky feature, but it’s not “it” as far as progress is concerned.
Good grief, is there anything more trolling than the incessant repeated posting of unprovoked generalized whining about what other people post? Yes, we feel sorry for your hurt feelings that someone criticized your toys, but we don’t really care. If you don’t like someone’s post just ignore it, but quit trolling about it.
Agree.
Admin: Why was my comment deleted? I expressed my differing opinion in a polite way. Robbies comment is allowed to stay (and gets 5 likes) in spite of accusations and using words like “a*se”? This makes no sense at all.
I try to delete threads as a whole when the only discussion is about trolls. No matter if your comment was a good one. I will try to remove it all 🙂
I understand. Thanks for replying.
OMG you actually exist !? Why have you waited YEARS to start moderating your site ? Your negligence has practically erased any trace of the community that once flourished here. I don’t care about your excuses, we’ve red them more than once, just asign external moderators or start ip baning these trolls PLEASE!
the troll got trolled to red face by Robbie… lmao
Great stuff. Very useful for certain subjects. I’m impressed.
I am buying as soon as they combine this with in camera into RAW HDR 🙂
You could go away and have a snack while the camera was taking those 24+ shots.
Sure… or not… in good light it would be about 3 seconds. You must eat fast.
If memory was infinite, yes.
I think 24 or so fall within the buffer capacity of a modern SLR… do not know about the EM5 II… but one source states that the EM5 has a 17 shot buffer capacity, while another says that after 50 RAW shots the clearing time increases to 13 seconds with a FAST card. Either way the memory is ALMOST or already there.
I imagine that EM5 II has or could have a larger buffer. So, this is not a valid objection either.
Buffer on E-M5 is most likely 15 shots and 50 on the E-M1, http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/omd-em5/omd-em5A6.HTM
so your point is valid.
Either way, I think it would be more intelligent (and still doable) if they exposed the half pixel-shifts differently from the full pixel shifts. You would just need a bit of reworking on algorithm, probably by weighting the supersampling.
No extra delay from using this approach, and probably no discernable difference either. In fact, you would have less shadow noise, but that’s HDR. A whole new species of artifacts could emerge though, but that’s already a given with moving objects.
Yes, the shifting pattern for this system gives me a headache… I have not yet worked out how the pattern is applied. Yes, there are most likely different ways to do this… I thought along the same lines, there are all kinds of algorithms possible for noise reduction and HDR from different overlapping exposures… I will not even attempt to claim which one is optimal.
One thing is for sure, this approach will continue to advance and evolve. I would also check what CPU/processor the camera would need to cope with all this in terms of processing versus power use.
I prefer the high number of exposures simply because with more data you can do more things at the same time… do the higher resolution + true color at each pixel + HDR + possibly noise reduction from multiple exposures. I am excited about this for landscapes, but not buying in just yet.
I hope in time the high MP sensors will join the outdatet-club of cassette players and DSLRs. When we have global superfast shutter, Foveon like 12-16 MP sensors with clean high ISO, f1 lenses, the readot time for 4 pictures will be so low that you probably can use this feature even hand held if you want. I only want high MP in very special occations, mostly Id like 12 MP with high DR etc at high ISO.
I’d take a 48mp AA-less sensor that groups pixels in 3 (RGB) to produce a 16mp raw, or even in 4 for RGBW and a 12mp image than this.
Yeah, but you would still get a small pixel ISO and noise performance.
Same ISO performance yep, but the noise would be better, and you’d keep the true colour benefits.
I do not see how noise would be better if per 3 RGB pixels are combined into one… one pixel contributes only one colour so noise is not averaged over the 3. Noise would only be reduced if you combined the 3 pixels into one and averaged the value, but this does not happen if you are extracting true color… you can have either true colour or reduced noise, but not both at the same time.
Hmmm yep, you are probably right. Except that when you downsize an image you improve its noise performance, so I would see this as doing the same sort of thing.
lack of moiré is nice, is it possible to do without the sharpening?
My last posted got jacked by my auto correct. What I was saying is, dont compare the em5ll to a FF Hi MP camera. compare it to the sony a7s and the nikon NF and the GH4. Now you have something they cant provide. Comparing it to the Nikon d810 is not realistic.
“dont compare the em5ll to a FF Hi MP camera. compare it to the sony a7s and the nikon NF and the GH4.”
Why?
You would never contemplate buying an em5ll or a Nikon 810. its different animals for different things. You want to compare same megapixals sensor
No, megapixels are the least important factor nowadays. There is so much more a camera like EM5 can offer.
You forgot “for me, megapixels…”. Why is it that everything is expressed as if it were a mathematical axiom? I like it for macro stuff and cropping. It is important for _me_ up to a certain degree. I had the Em1. I still prefer FF due to shallow DOF and high ISO. But doesn’t mean that the Olys are bad cameras, to the contrary.
It’s an impressive technology, but I can’t really remember the last time I felt limited by the resolution of a 16 MP sensor. I don’t typically blow tiny fractions of beer cans up to poster size prints. And while the advantages in terms of noise and moire are nice, very little of my shooting involves a tripod, so there’s not much benefit to me.
For a certain set of limited use cases, a very compelling option. For the way most people use cameras, it’s more a curiosity than a solution.
So… No more moire on bugs eyes in macro?
This will me interesting. Whole different look. 🙂
Regardless of what trolls might think, this new step on m43 technology might have just made lust for MF irrelevant. This new sensor tech along with the keystone feature is pretty much all I need for architectural work and all in a portable and inconspicuous size, now I’ll just use MF for specialized studio or portrait work. Has anyone in this tread actually speculated about the use of this feature along with other nice m43 features like MF lens adapter, speedboosters or T/S adapters ? People talk about how limited this feature is but in reality it opens a word of possibilities, not everything in photography is Bird, Sports or Street photos, there’s a whole world beyond hyper-teles.and CAF-Traking and zero light HIgh ISO shots, it’s like people are looking for excuses and extreme examples to disregard what is, in all sense, beyond their capabilities or actual workflow/usage of gear; There’s absolutely no way that every and all posters here, on DPreview or any other photography forum are ALL into birds, extreme low light or sport journalists.
*MY lust for MF