Of course this has to be taken with a grain of salt. But usually newly announced cameras manage to get soemwhere within the most sold 100 mirrorless camera chart at Amazon (Click here). Well, the GF7 is the first new MFT camera that doesn’t make it into the top 100 the first day of the announcement.
New Panasonic GF7 doesn’t sell in any meaningful quantity at Amazon US. Well I guess Panasonic’s goal with the GF7 was to appeal the Asian market in first place. So that may not be a big problem for Panasonic. Let’s hope the GX8 will get more “attention” from all of us 🙂
Preorders:
Panasonic GF7 in Black at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
Panasonic GF7 in Pink at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
91 Responses
The color all are wrong!
what’s up with the hump?
Pop-up flash and selfie hinge.
Admin: any news on the GX8?
IT’S NOT??
OMG, How will I sleep tonight?
Admin trying to stir it up for hits, I’d wager….
Why would you knock the admin for posting this? Nobody on this site has liked the GF series since the original and yet those apparently still cracked the top 100 list in pre-sales. So this is actually interesting that people aren’t buying this one even though it looks much better than the previous couple versions as well as gets a swivel screen while still having the same introductory price.
looks better or not than previous GF series is more subjective. but one thing for sure, GM1 at the price now, an one year old camera, is much more tempting than this newly released camera. panasonic really to need to work on their pricing vs product tier. its own products are eatting each other’s market instead of fighting other brands
How is GM1 more tempting when it is $150 more expensive than GF7?
If you looking at retail vs retail price, of course. But GM1 is an one year old camera and sales are probably gonna happen quiet often as GM5 taking over. GM1 + 12-32 was as low as $497 on BHphoto mid Dec last year, makes it 100 less than GF7 with same kit lens. I don’t think it’s gonna be hard to dupe that price from ebay with patient or coming up sales since it’s probably on its way out.
You specifically said “at the price now”, not “at the lowest price the GM1 has even been offered at”. So yes, we should compare retail to retail because anything else is just speculation. And if we’re going to speculate, I wouldn’t be surprised if the GM1 never gets down below $600 again. It looks like it was intentionally timed to get rid of as many units as possible before the GF7 was announced. I remember the GX1 going on a big sale just before the GX7 was announced and after the sale period ended it never got down to that price again.
Indicative of the market boundaries between smartphones and the photography enthusiasts? It’s a whole new world!
Jeezzz…I am surprised….I thought for sure that the hot pink one would be a point of conversation on the tip of every photographer’s tongue.
Doesn’t surprise me. It’s only selling point appears to be the “selfie mode”. A phone can do selfies just as well; plus you already have a phone (saving you $$$) , and it is far more comfortable to carry around.
Considering we have had near identical image quality on about 20 mFT mount cameras since the e-m5 came out 3 yrs ago. { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Four_Thirds_system }
There are very few { if any} image quality reasons to upgrade just more and more often useless “features” .;The “star” feature of the E-M52 { allegedly} is an in camera image stitch using the same old sensor. A 4 image stitch {64mp} gives you an excellent quality image and takes about a minute in Photoshop. Why are they rumored to be using 8 shots do you really need 128mp to produce a 40mp file ?
All the rumors point to this being a feature that cannot be replicated in photoshop. It is not a photo stitch where you have only a little bit overlapping in the frame. You keep the camera perfectly still for this feature and the micro adjustments (like a half pixel width) allow the camera to fill in information between pixels when the shots are combined.
You forget that it’s not just about making high res images. It also makes it possible to get complete colour information for every pixel, thereby avoiding the need for an interpolation algorithm to ‘guess’ the missing colour values. You will get noticeably cleaner images with very few colour artifacts.
if in 1 year the price will go to 399 I am all in
sold the epl3 and now need small pockatable companion to em10 ….this loooks good with 12-32
Do you think-the Asian Market is “silliy”? This is a point of view here in Europe.
This camera would have been fine 2012…maybee..but not 2015 and after the
LX100–seems, Panasonic runns in the Canon-trap…and does not do, what some
wait: 600 Euro 4k Cam 8bit intern-maybe 10 bit on hdmi-prt is only for gh4 ( the old
funny marketing-Reasons)…and frontal the 600 euros Aps-c Samsung nx 500 4k
starts its marketfight with Sony Aps-c A7000 4k and so on. Okay. I do not care
4/3th — Aps_c in both sys wee se now waht we want. And the winner is who makes
it right.
10 bit on HDMI-port will be the finishline for winner.
And think…taht somebody in China, who makes billione smartphones sse this–so
next 4k cam is from China? so… if a Manufacture does not work for me
THE CUSTOMER HE IS GONE…and no 1001 blogs and tests will change it.
Peaople are not silliy. And People in Asia also.. okay.
A man from snwo cold Alps in Austria…
Maybe next cam comes from South Africa and is fine 4k and costs only 100,-$
and then? what?
and in the Ocean of Smartphone-massproduction-obsolence 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
billion littel selfie kanki kakis are coming in.
for 9,90,-$ / Month.
Pansonic, Canon, Sony and co should wake up a bit faster..
faaaaster…
MACH 3
um, ok?
I see your point. Snwo is not a feature many will use.
“And the winner is who makes it right.”
That one sentence made sense to me.
When it becomes $399, it’ll sell just fine.
$99, now and I will bite. That is probably the price in Asia (without a battery, of course).
The number one selling “CSC” is a fixed lens Nikon L330. Number 20 is an eyecup. There’s a waterproof fixed lens camera in the next set. Worthless list.
Worthless Post, as well…
Action Cam Dash Kit at #41… That says a lot.
MrALLCRAP = the definition of Worthless
I feel sorry for this “MrALLCRAP”… He has a personal troll on his hands.
Some people get all the fame, I Guess….
I thought GF line was on the chopping block or under some re-evaluation, and this is what they come up with…. GM1 is a much better option now with the discount after GM5 released. that selfie view finder can easily be replaced with a cell phone that could run the panasonic image app
not sell because is a hanged GM1!
No surprise here. Slather another coating of ugly on it. It couldn’t hurt.
GX8 ??
Perhaps Panasonic could throw in the 35-100 zoom they keep showing in all the photos. Heck, I would even buy it for $600 if they would sweeten the pot a little.
Not very popular? I guess most teenage girls don’t shop for fashion accessories on Amazon. I mean, really, who else would buy this piece of dung instead of a GX7, EM10, EM5, GM5, LX100, etc? It might do well in some Asian markets…I get the impression that “cute” is an important adjective in the evaluation of a camera’s merits in some markets.
It is indeed.
I live in Japan and was looking at an epl7. The sales dealer of the store (a brunch of Yodobashi) told me that usually the epl cameras are for girls, and, as a guy, I’d better look at the em1, or at a sony camera. I told him that I intended to buy it for my wife, and he said “ah, then it’s ok”.
Fun, but stupid.
PS: I’ll be damned if I buy the epl7. Too expensive. The em10 is cheaper, nowadays, and the epl6 costs the half…
Lol this, when a buyer is a girls, they will direct them to Olympus, and guys to Sony/Canon/Nikon without even asking what type of camera you want to.
Good news. If Pana drops the price to $200 I’ll get one as a b-cam. Swivel screen is great not only for selfies.
hate to burst your bubble but it’s not a swivel. It’s a “flip”
Devastating news. Pana has to drop price to $100 then.
yup, lolz 🙂
I’d probably buy one @ the $350 mark. They usually drop down into that range fairly quick anyway. I wonder, why does the GM1 cost $150 more than this camera? The size doesn’t seem to be significantly different and the GF6 does 1080/60P. The GM1 has also been out for over a year.
**I mean the GF7 does 1080/60P.
I doubt the price will get that low outside of some luck on ebay anytime soon (1-2 years). Its basically another GM1 and that still goes for $400-500 on ebay.
The target audience of this camera probably doesn’t follow camera manufacturers’ press announcements or read gear rumor sites. So the fact that there aren’t record-breaking sales on day one doesn’t say too much, it doesn’t even rule out the possibility of the camera becoming a real bestseller soon.
It isn’t ranked on amazon because it’s listed as unreleased, it doesn’t even show up as a normal listing if you search for it. It won’t get listed until some units start shipping, the same goes for the recently announced Fuji X-A2.
That’s OK a free pink nail varnish will soon get this storming up the sales charts
Of course not, Panasonic released the same camera 3 times now. They couldnt possibly expect high sales from this. If someone wanted this camera they most likely already have it. Like me, I got the GM1 a year ago, I wouldnt buy this now.
That is exactly what I was thinking. How many buyers did they think were left in the conventional market for interchangeable lens cameras? Everyone who wanted a tiny one bought the gm1 or 5.
The mass market selfie route can only be accomplished by mass marketing! And somehow I have the feeling panasonic will fall at that.
Except that Nikon has been bombarding people with marketing and their numbers are down worse than Panasonic, even after they dropped Ashton Kutcher!
I happen to believe nobody cares about cameras that have zero benefits to an iPhone, plus you have to carry one more thing. DOF, nope… 16mpix, snore… pink, I’ll just get a cheap case for my phone.
Cell phones have eaten m43 lunch, and its only going to get worse. The things that differentiate m43 from cellphones are viewfinder, and super fast primes, but those options cost as much as their DSLR equivalents. The price just has to drop… the world needs a $199 NEW m43 body, with zero bells and whistles, and built like a tank, even if it only comes with the body cap lens. At this point, its the only way to get back the market.
Huh, seems that mirrorless is doing much better than the DSLR market is right now. Far more bang for your buck in any of the mirrorless systems than in heavy, expensive DSLR systems.
Mirrorless might do slightly better than DSLRs but MFT is loosing shares as it was recently posted. I can get the Sony A6000 for less than the OMD EM10. The Fuji XT-1 or even the A7 cheaper than the EM1 and GH4. I honestly think that following the established pricing Olympus and especially Panasonic are going to suffer real hard. I don’t think the EM5 II can sell for the same price the first did. And the GX7 was placed to high from the get go. The body only price of the GX7 was higher than that of the GH2… Would it have started like the A6000 at 800€ with a kit lens it could have had an impact on the market. but not like this!
I don’t see that body prices are a particular sticking point for m43. The top bodies aren’t cheap but they’re not THAT expensive – both the E-M1 and GH4 are around 60% the price of an A7 II body right now, and the lens availability is far greater for the m43 mount than the Sony (though it looks like Sony is finally rectifying that problem).
I don’t see the Fujis and the m43 as really going for the same market, honestly. I think the Fujis have many nice advantages (and I was a big Fujica fan back in my film days) but you can compare the recent releases of the telezooms (40-150 Oly, 50-140 Fuji) and see the obvious size advantages of the m43.
Don’t get me wrong, I think in terms of IQ the x mount bodies are going to beat the m43 bodies but when you factor in the size difference, hmm.
If I were starting fresh and didn’t have such an investment in 43/m43 glass I would probably give Fuji a real long look. And I’d choose either of the big 3 MILC mounts well before I would saddle myself with a huge-ass DSLR.
DSLRs still outsell mirrorless ILCs by a ratio of 3:1 globally, and by a ratio of 4:1 in the Western markets. So in that sense mirrorless is not doing better.
However, the DSLR market is declining slowly, while the mirrorless market has been flat for a couple of years now. Therefore, at one point mirrorless probably will outsell DSLRs, but only because the former are declining, not because mirrorless is winning over a lot of sales volume from the DSLRs. If that is your definition of “doing much better”, then yes, you’re right.
I wouldn’t agree about more bang for your buck, though. Mirrorless systems are still overpriced compared to DSLRs. A mirrorless ILC should cost less than a DSLR with similar capability and build quality, but in many cases, the opposite is true.
I’m not sure how it can be said the MILC cameras are overpriced. They’re much smaller, that engineering comes with a cost.
There’s a loss of high-ISO performance with the MILCs (in general) and the tonality is not quite as good with the smaller sensor as the larger sensors when displayed at larger sizes.
But overall the quality of the top MILCs is just a notch below the much larger, much heavier, much more expensive FF DSLRs. The glass is cheaper as well – I haven’t seen much criticism of the performance of the Oly Pro series glass, either!
I disagree with your first point. Technologically, a MILC is a compact camera with interchangeable lenses. They lack many complex and expensive parts that a DSLR has, like the mirror mechanism, separate AF and metering sensors, and a pentaprism. Those parts add to the cost of manufacture and assembly, not to mention quality control, since they require very precise alignment. DSLRs also require more repairs under warranty, and the cost of that is of course baked into the price.
Miniaturization doesn’t necessarily involve costly engineering, when you achieve the small size by removing things. Sure, some technologies, like 5-axis IBIS, are marvels of engineering, but they have nothing to do with the miniaturization of the camera.
I think it does. Remember the MILCs are using EVFs (and in the case of the E-M1, the nice switching system between EVF and LCD depending on the eye position. This is a significant cost over an optical viewfinder system – just look at what the external viewers for the older Pens cost.
Pentaprisms and mirrors take up space but they are not expensive parts, and I don’t think on modern gear such moving parts fail very often either.
Regardless, MILCs are a very good value for the money, I think.
Many reviewers have complained that the GM1 didn’t have a tilt screen. It’s possible that this iteration is Panasonic’s response to lower than expected sales of the GM1.
Good for them, constantly investing in tiny tiny tiny tiny and tiny. Lenses all sub 100 mm, tiny bodies, GM5, Lx100 and now this one. Forgetting about G7, only getting us a GH4 but not all the right lenses for it. They should know better, they should know where the money is. It is not in the sub 500 dollar segment nor in tiny lenses. Tha tis were competition is vehement. Of course they need to address this part of the market too, I agree, but enough is enough. And may be the Amazon sales how just that.
GF7 isn’t even a real camera, so why expect to find it in a list of cameras?
It’s certainly premature to reach any conclusions about market success based on this criterion. The camera was announced 3 days ago, it is not yet shipping in USA and though there is a pre-order link above, it actually doesn’t show up in a simple search (“Lumix gf7”).
More importantly, there was _extremely_little_ hard information leaked in the days, not to mention weeks, prior to the announcement. Even for a camera aimed at internet-cruising enthusiasts (which this is not), prospective buyers need a little time to digest the news and generate the enthusiasm for placing a sight -unseen order.
But even that isn’t the real issue.This is a solid but not a flagship camera, and few of the future buyers are yet aware of it, or even aware that they will buy such a thing this year. These are folks who will shop for a camera to enhance their travel, family or other-hobby activities, not so much for dedicated photo hobbyists or gear enthusiasts. GF7 will hold up well in reviews and value comparisons _when_ they shop.Thankfully for Panasonic, the potential market is not limited to those who monitor 43rumors et. al. Like, most of Chevy buzz is found in Corvette articles, but they mostly sell family cars and pickup trucks.
So all the yawning comments are essentially irrelevant. Panasonic should pursue retail presence, salespeople training and advertising for GF. Lack of excitement on the forum is no issue. If anything, I see numerous comments like “not for me, maybe OK for my wife|sister|son|mother…”. Exactly the point.
We should hear what “wives/sisters/mothers” have to say on the matter.
My quick research inside my family had a single answer: meh!
Everybody has an Iphone, and this camera costs more and does the same in a way which is far more complicated, for people who are happy to just share pics on facebook (the “selfie crowd”).
It’s already surprising that they even knew it exists and what it is.
eh, lol.
They know because I tell them.
My mom used to have a DSLR Pentax, 30 years ago, and today she keeps on repeting she wants a camera a small as possible. See, she could be a potential buyer, as she does not use nor want an Iphone (too expensive / difficult to use, she says). Problem is: also these cameras are too expensive / difficult to use (she says; amen to that from her point of view). Plus they are too big for her (she says). I guess she will end-up buying an Iphone, after all.
As for my wife: she has an em10, now, but looking for something with “serious video”. She wants a small camera AND 4K for doing documentaries. So I guess if Olympus does not make a 4K em* camera, she’ll go somewhere else (not this GF7, obviously).
Sister will borrow whatever. She will not buy anything. But for her the fact that the lens is interchangeable is actually negative, as it makes the camera more complicated and bulky (aspect that makers should consider carefully when greenlighting this kind of cameras). She will also buy an Android phone soon, so amen to the being a potential m43 user.
Pink? Panasonic tried to make this a camera for girls and wives who like selfies, but did not do market research. Those shooters either use their mobile phones or when they want a better quality camera, they use their boyfriend or husbands cameras. They would rather spend hundreds of dollars on clothes than another better camera than what they already have, most likely an ipphone.
haha. Not to echo anything sounding sexist, but my own experience with my wife is exactly this. She has absolutely zero in her budget for tech. We laugh about it. She wants a longer lightning cord for her iphone. But she wont buy it because it costs $30 and she’d much rather spend that on something she will wear or some social event. So I’m buying it for her for her birthday. Most people (men included) make these decisions constantly. Do I want to buy a camera that costs $600 or do I want to go to two dinners, two shows, buy boots and jeans, and some gifts to bring to a party? Most people are better off with their iphone/android. Many people won’t learn how to make the most of these cameras even if they buy them.
I see far more women walking around with mirrorless cameras than I do men, honestly.
Maybe the husbands are borrowing their wives’ cameras?
Why it should?
Market is full.. second-hand even more. I can get Panny GX1 for fraction of this price, like new..
These Amazon compact system camera rankings of their US sales are not representative of sales worldwide or of all sales in US and the US market has shunned the smaller entry models to a large extent while these are the best sellers in Japan and Asia the largest markets.
What I find interesting is this latest Amazon list the GH3 ranked highest or first (#10) among m4/3 camera sales, and the GM5 second (#20) and G6 third (#25) and I find those rankings hard to believe. In the same rankings the GX7 ranked fifth, seventh, eleventh, and thirteen while the GM1 ranked ninth and fifteenth . The GF6 was ranked eighth.
The highest ranked Oly product was the OM5 at fourth, and a EPL7 at tenth and EPM2 at fourteenth, the EM1 at twelth and OM10 at seventeenth.
It would appear that Americans are willing to pay for the most expensive models designed for enthusiasts and that is probably reflected in the comments made here and on DPR.
For a more accurate picture of compact system rankings I would suggest taking a look at DSLRsales.com for breakdown of sales in Japan, US, and Britain.
> What I find interesting is this latest Amazon list […]
It’s worth repeating the reason why Amazon rankings are not useful.
One of the major factors contributing to the rank of a product is Amazon’s margin off the said product.
Also, sometimes random products gets pushed up by Amazon in the ranking in the hopes to sell more of it.
Official video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vooI9cebjY
This thing is not aimed at serious photographers. It’s for people who usually take selfies with their mobile phones and are the hipstery social media types. I’m surprised they brought back the GF-line to begin with. I’d personally go for a GM1 or GM5. They also look better, this empty little hump just looks weird. My 2 ct’s.
As we said elsewhere, the camera is aimed at people who are not buying cameras anymore, nor intend to buy a new camera in the future.
I wonder what they are smoking at Panasonic (and Fuji as well, with the new X-A2 which is even less on target).
And so everyone keeps saying it’s not aimed at “photographers” but the iPhone crowd. Why an interchange lens type camera then? Fixed lens like the lx100 would be better? No? Its not like they’re going to buy any more lenses. Why not a pretty/hipster/retro/selfie version of the lx100?
As i mentioned in a previous post, Panasonic really is confused in their camera products. But again I’m just some random internet person.
But most people don’t buy any more lenses. The camera manufacturers themselves have stated that the average system camera owner have 1.5 lenses for their camera. They own the kit lens and maybe a telephoto zoom, and that’s it. Only the small portion of the market that we call enthusiasts, and the even smaller portion of professionals, buy more lenses.
So according to your reasoning all consumer system cameras, including high volume products like the Canon Rebels, have been pointless, because the people who bought them didn’t buy more lenses.
Which m43 cams are aimed at serious photographers?
E-M1 and GH4.
Are you a serious photographer?
C’mon, real hipsters only carry 1970s era SLRs as fashion accessories. (someone forgot to tell them about this stuff called FILM). Kind of like the big clocks black dudes wore in the early 80s.
I think Panasonic is doing a job of cornering the market with GF7. Selfies are hot among the young and fun. The interchangeable lens capability is for when GF7 users get tired of selfies and realize that the camera and kit lens can deliver great result. This allows them to grow into the MFT system. The first question however is to get snappers and half serious photographers to put up the asking price when smartphones are already adequate.
You’re kidding right? Magenta leatherette! Where is my credit card!
The more I look at it (design not colour), the more I think it is a good look. Definitely retro though.
The pink gives rather a toxic look. I wonder why there is no white/beige option.
for those saying that this camera has no market or whatsoever needs to do some research on Asian women. If Panasonic nailed the whitening and beauty effect of this camera, Asian girls would kill or sell organs just to get one. The Casio TR150 was first selling at around 300- 600 ish dollars but due to high demand, the price has driven up to 1300 ish and it is all because of the beauty effect that it offers. http://www.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/dc/ex_tr150/
I’d totally buy one for my 17 yr old daughter at a $359-399 price point to replace her E-PL3, she’d use the sh!t out of that selfie feature… at this price point not so much, we’ll see when blackfriday hits
I agree, if Pana wanted to promote this as a selfie camera, they need to do a lot more work to make it better. Just because it has a flip screen and beauty mode does not make it a good selfie camera, their beauty/silky skin mode is weak/unrealistic comparing to my android app.
Put aside the selfie aspect, this is a slightly better camera than GM1 and also cheaper than when GM1 was first released (750$). I would buy this camera if I didn’t already have GM1. 🙁 Also, as a female..the pink color / texture combination they have isn’t that appealing to me, I think I would go with the Orange color!
We are dinosaur
In the past, the big camera was carried and operatet by the man. He created pictures in high quality which could be used for all kinds of purposes like foto magazines, postcards or international journalism. He showed the slides on the projector and the only part, the wife was allowed to do was putting the prints int the album (plus the catering during slide shows of course).
That has changed. I see much more couples where the women has the camera and she mostly creates pictures in real life and in motion. Fun, people, children, cats, dogs and such are more important than formal rules how things have to be positioned in a picture which can be used to win a photographic competition.
Todays cameras are at least partly following the needs of this modern approach of taking pictures. They have a faster workflow from klick to publish in social networks and they have more filters and automatic procedures to created the pictures in ways every dinosaur is even afraid to think about.
This all has nothing to do with us.
We don’t buy thoses cameras and the typical customers are not reading rumor pages about possible developements and technical issues of cameras which might be released in the future.
We are Dinosaur but we are not extincted.
Not surprising at this price point it is cross shopped with the GX7 and GM1 which are better enthusiast cameras. The GM1 is just flat out better looking for same money with the 12-32. This needs a $150-200 discount and then it will sell well for x-mas.
By xmas, there will be many more newer cameras in the $500 range. Even a5100 will fall down. GF6 kit is specified to be $300 MSRP, $200 street in a few months (compare to a3000 with EVF and real shutter and bigger sensor and higher resolution etc). $600 is just a pricing mistake. At least on the US market, where the extra-small size is an extra-small advantage.
Did anybody actually expected it to be successful? Even vs GF6+14-42 at $350, which is a better camera and lens.
I expect it to be successful when it drops to $350 in time for black friday
Any camera can be sold at the right price, but $600 is just not reasonable. Some believers blamed critics for their bias against Panasonic, well, the amazon buyers already gave their answer to the believers’ wish.
Exactly. Kodak S-1 2-lens kit (with 12-45 and 42.5-160) is $369 on amazon, and the camera has IBIS and real shutter, not the joke with 1/50s sync turning all electronic at 1/500. If you don’t sell a premium device, and instead provide a joke unable to track, without weather sealing, without controls, without premium (at least FF) sensor, with a joke of a kit lens with half of the needed range – don’t expect it to sell for premium prices. Panasonic managers spend too much time talking to Leica.
Way to many options, APSC mirror less coming down in price and full frame now within the reach of any mere mortal. No product differentiation here…moving on.
I bought the GM1. If it were not for the fact that the camera is virtually impossible to use on a sunny day, I would not be looking to replace it. When Panasonic pulls their collective heads out of their rear ends, and offers these upgrades, i.e. GF7 & GM5, as a body-only option, I will buy one….. Or both. I am not going to buy this lens three times.