Image on top shows the current GM1.
After the GH4, FZ1000 and the soon to be announced LX100 I was expecting the Gm5 to have 4K recording too. Well, I was wrong. It has no 4K. Not a big deal, I guess 99% of us would not need that anyway 🙂
The GM5 has 16 megapixel sensor, built-in EVF (just like the LX100) and No(!) on sensor stabilization. It will be announced on Monday (Sept 15) at 13:00 in Berlin time!
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151 Responses
No surprises really, they can’t solve the heat dissipation challenge with such a small camera + IBIS. I would hold out for a pleasant surprise, but the fact that it has EVF and IBIS already makes it a fantastic upgrade!
GoPro Hero 2 / 3 Heat Test – Recording In Case – …: http://youtu.be/hOA7Aq5pXDc
Sorry, didn’t mean down vote but browser moved page while opening keyboard.
And how big (or little) is that sensor in the GoPro? I’m quite sure it makes a big difference!
LX100 for sure. I wait this update. Well… i preorder LX100 day one.
GM line is too small no grip and 4k will not record for a heat problem in too small body
Do you really expect the GM5 body to be much smaller than LX100 body ?
Not sure if I’m surprised or not. On one hand I was thinking Panasonic would just “throw it in there” to help sell the camera, seeing as it’s soon to become what everyone expects as a standard, much like 1080p has become.
On the other hand I didn’t want them to, because I think it’s too soon to hand 4K over to consumers at the “enthusiast” level, which is what this camera will most likely be aimed at. It would bump the price up, like on the GH4, and for the many of us who prefer still photography over video, it would be annoying to have to pay for it.
I think it’s for the best. This will allow for a smaller camera body because heat dissipation will be less of a concern. Actually the lack of 4K just makes me even *more* excited to see the final camera 🙂 It might mean that they have concerned themselves more with photography that video on this one.
It is a negative but not really a surprise.
4K is great because downsampled it blows 1080p out of the water without contest.
As such I do think it is needed…
Down sampling is only benefitial if bicubic sampling is applied. This is something which is – of course – offered in Photoshop but I don’t know if all NLE support it at the moment.
Simple ‘down sampling’ by omitting every 2nd pixel (horizontally) and every second line (vertically) is certainly fast but would lead to unimpressive results.
You DO NOT need ANY Adobe software to great best quality videos. You camber open source tools that offers or. (in fact, most Hollywood movies use Open Source tools).
The 4k is useless for normal customer these cameras are aimed. They don’t sit front of computer doing more complex editing than maybe cutting or at least placing scenes after a another.
Not every camera there needs to be 4k, not even for “future proofing” reasons. As They do not re-edit videos after years (or weeks).
You don’t need 4k, but look at any GH4 reviews where they look at editing 4k capture in a 1080p timeline. Much better picture and you have room to crop/pan in post without losing quality.
We look for better image quality for stills, why not video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxGekOHEPuc
I didn’t say that 4k isn’t needed. Just that the CONSUMERS who these cameras are aimed don’t know or care to do any such basic edits.
And if you want better image quality, you are not close enough or handling the camera well.
So far world most known photographs have been taken with cameras that has captured less details and are presented in form that has lower DPI/PPI than today’s cameras does capture. And yet people run after the technology like it would improve their photographing/cinema skills.
Look today’s movies, their impact isn’t from actors or director guiding actors. It is from visual and special effects. It is work of the director of photographer choosing camera angles and focal lengths and routes how to capture video. Then it comes to people responsible to design and make costumes, light technicians working with director of photography, scene builders and seekers to find locations or build them. Finally a editor cutting the movie and building it from all the footage and color proofing it.
Director and actors gets all the fame and credits while their work has least visual, audible and even emotional impact to viewer.
We can go back few decades when actors were more crucial, while movie could have been filmed in one set alone. But today it is resolution or fancy panning and moves repeatedly whole scenery. Color grading to get it look like it would have been shot as is in the first place without requiring it.
Camera’s are aimed at everybody who finds them useful and buys them. There are also professionals who use the GM1 as video camera. Those people would really miss 4k, although Panasonic wants them to buy the GH4(and they probably will).
Neither bicubic nor bilinear are recommended for a 1-2x factor downsampling. You’d be much better off using Lanczos.
Omitting pixels as you wisely quoted ‘downsampling’ isn’t downsampling, it’s subsampling and as you said has less than welcome results.
If the LX100 does 4K I really don’t see a reason why the GM5 can’t. I guess the cameras will be around the same size and both have a 43 sensor.
That means GM5 is missing a crucial feature – even if you don’t use it, it is important for marketing.
That only leaves LX100 as my possibly next camera.
Maybe they see the LX more of a low end consumer camera so they use a much lower and crappier bitrate there. The GM is a step up and with a high bitrate in 4k they could quickly run into heat issues.
GM5 – sensor stabilization but no 4K
LX100 – no sensor stabilization (probably lens stabilization) but 4K
The GM5 can use primes that don’t have IS built-in while the LX100 has OIS built-in to it’s lens. That is why the GM5 needed IBIS and with IBIS you cannot do 4k video.
Very bad news, no 4K no buy!
Photographic tools never needed 4K, but nobody wants those tools here.
Gadgets instead need 4K, 8K, 16K, so I understand your frustration. It is clever of you to take a radical stance: it shows clear, independent thinking on your part. Your frequent posts suggest a vibrating brain, and I am sure you are a great artist, too.
Maybe you need to do a little bit of extended thinking:
My first stills DSLR had 6Mpix and took great shots that could be printed fine to larger than 8×10. Its highest usable ISO was 400 (800 if pushed). So why do we now “need” sensors with more pixels and more sensitivity than that?
You generally get a better image when downscaling 4k in post rather than the camera cropping/pixel binning at 1080p then compressing . You can get decent stills pulled from 4k. You can crop and add movement in post when using 4k images in 1080p.
The want of 4k in video land is much the same as in still image land where more Megapixels gives you more latitude for resolution and cropping in post.
So there is more to it than trying to flog 4k TVs.
I don’t doubt properly downscaled image looks better (using some sort of decent filter, like Lanczos or bicubic). But the point is, is GM5 the type of camera a videographer would use to shoot his footage? I think it targets a different group.
http://www.eoshd.com/2013/12/panasonic-gm1-review-another-pocket-cinema-camera/
https://vimeo.com/81337124
From Martin Wallgren:
“This little pocket camera is a video monster. It’s too small to work fully comfortable but in terms of image it beats the GH3 hands down in low light at ISO3200. Two of the clips shot out the window were recorded at 720p50 but the rest was recorded at 1080p24 AVCHD. 25p in a 50i wrapper is also available on the EU model.
This camera is properly downsampling by pixel-binning on the sensor which most of the competition cannot perform, using the inferior line-skipping method instead. I think the footage from this camera looks beautiful, gradation is really smooth and the highlights clip very nicely. Rumour says the GX7 and GM1 may be using the new Panasonic 4K sensor that will appear in the next GH model in 2014. Who knows. Well I think I’m in love. :)”
“So why do we now “need” sensors with more pixels and more sensitivity than that?”
I don’t. Though the extra pixels are useful up to a point I don’t need any ISO above 400 and would prefer a camera with an ISO range of 25 to 400. In the film days I used to shoot with ISO 50 film for everything
What I want is more DR and colour depth, though the recent improvements in m43 sensors have gone a long way to solving those problems.
Well, maybe you don’t need 4K, I understand that but the rest of us do.
“The rest of us”? You mean a VERY small minority of owners.
It’s more like “no IBIS (during video) no buy!”
I don’t care tat much about IBIS because I use professional stabilization systems, but I do care about 4K, a lot. It they manage to implement it without overheating problems, then it is a good bonus. In small cameras I don’t think they can manage it though, I prefer 4K recording instead of IBIS (if I have to chose between them).
You use professional stabilization systems yet you would use them with a GM5. Riiiiiight.
For aerial shots wold have been great with a small lens (14mm f/2,4 for example).
That’s a rather hysterical response, don’t you think? Especially considering that there was very little chance that it would have 4K in the first place. And the reasons for that are pretty well known.
You (and the admin of this site apparently) need to separate wishful thinking from reasonable expectations.
A years ago Panasonic stated in an interview that everything they will produce after 2014 will be with 4K, there is no reason for the little GM5 not to have 4K, even for a limited time wold be great. A 10 minutes of 4K recording on this little baby will make a lot of people happy, including me. Imagine this the “new pocket cinema”, great for very small setups, aerial shots etc.
I was wondering how Pana will market both LX100 and GM5, but now I understand. Compacts with fix lens make sense only if they are smaller, cheaper and more versatile than mirrorless (longer lenses). LX100 is non of that. So who will choose LX100 over GM5? I see now, the 4k fans…
Oh yeah, marketing them will be really tough…
Small interchangeable lens camera
and
Small fixed lens camera
It is clear Panasonic are trying hard to beat Sony; at least in confusing the consumer with product names. after LX7 comes LX1000 after GM1 comes GM5 after GX1 came GX7 do they just pick these from a hat or what? Personally I am waiting for the GX320
Admin, the comments on this site suggest that you managed to assemble an exquisite forum of world-renowned cinematographers.
Where is the work worthy of 4K, gentlemen?
there is life outside your apartment
Maybe some want to use it for high speed ”action studies”.
And the rest are just wannabes! 😀
You generally get a better image when downscaling 4k in post rather than the camera cropping/pixel binning at 1080p then compressing . You can get decent stills pulled from 4k. You can crop and add movement in post when using 4k images in 1080p.
The want of 4k in video land is much the same as in still image land where more Megapixels gives you more latitude for resolution and cropping in post.
I understand all this, but have a few concerns:
* Editing footage at this level is a rather demanding task in terms of computing resources, time and expertise. How many of us really know what they are talking about when they demand 4K?
* There are many factors that can harm the viewing experience. Low resolution is perhaps the least important of them. Why don’t we hear such lament for the lack of e.g. microphone sockets? Poor sound can utterly destroy a video.
* Why take all this hassle when capturing your child or pet in everyday situations? In video – even more then in stills – quality depends on content.
This would be deal breaker.
Maybe it means the price won’t be too high…
yeah,i hop that,on this year,why panny cut off 2 series of starter kits???
GX7/GM1 prices too high and higher than a6000,a5100,em10 or e-p7
that mean they(panny) lose margin of MRL camera.
Nooooo…. where is the 4K?? :-/
Good!! I’m sick and tried of reading about 4k, 4k, 4k. I’m sure all of those crying for it will never use it, and if they do, they will simply watch the videos on their HD tv or on their smartphones. Get over it!!
you can skip easily the 4K news
so true, like most photographers only watch their resized pics…we live in a crazy world i tell ya
I still get some prints! 🙂
let me gues 10×15 cm? hehe jk Marco …..go big! 🙂
I have 4k display for two reasons.
1) photo editing (10bit, Color space for both, color accuracy, high DPI 1:1 review)
2) desktop use (high resolution, lots of content open at once)
For videos, I prefer Nexus 7 (’13) like I use it to write this. As on the move I don’t have to wait get to home. And there are lots of spare time caps between photo sessions, just waiting perfect light on scenery or doing long exposures, I have time to read and write.
And if you spend night out, there is time to watch even movie after browsing, rating, selecting and deleting photos.
I hate sitting front of the workstation/laptop. They eat the time quickly. Spending less time front of a computer gives more time to spend camera shutter…
Oh… And 4k DOES look better on FullHD TV.
Well IMO there are no good 4k panels yet. All of them are TN panels, no thank you very much, I pass.
This technology is in a too early stage to be usefull for me, a casual video user.
Not that I think that most people need it or have any use for it, but for some 4K can be used like a RAW input on a workflow for 1080p production.
Professional filmmakers use it regularly as a leeway for reframing in post and amateurs can definitely use it with benefit for stabilization in post, before downscaling.
I couldn’t care for the first technique but I could definitely find good use for the second.
If the price is right, I may consider one, but knowing how ridiculously priced the near 1″ m43 cameras are priced, Pana will probably ask for $1k. Whether Panasonic realizes it or not, this camera competes with the RX100 MIII. It needs to be competitive.
Nevermind. I thought this was about the LX camera.
LOL. You can’t even troll in the correct thread.
I was considering the next Lumix LX8 or it’s equivalent to upgrade my system…however I have opted to go for the Sigma DP3 Merrill with it’s Foveon® sensor.
No big deal, I doubt that detractors have 4k-ready TV sets in their rooms. 4k is like four full-HD TV sets organized into 2×2 matrix while most people will be watching their photos on their laptop screens. Want to shoot 4k, buy a dedicated tool. On-sensor stabilization is a much more useful and less gimmicky feature.
Footage shot on 4k looks so much better downrezed to 1080 than stuff shot on 1080 native. And anyway, there’s a reason it’s called “recording.” It’s a record. For the future. Like, not just five minutes from now but five years from now. And ten.. and on. You’re making the exact same argument hacks made nine years ago against upgrading equipment from SD to HD.
As I’ve said earlier, I won’t argue about downsampling because what you say is true. But I don’t think GM5 is “meant” for videographers, it’s a tiny camera for general / street shooting, it simply targets different group. Why would Panasonic invest into it to have all the necessary bandwidth and processing power, only for it to be more expensive for its intended customers.
“genral” shooters will want 4K soon. What consumer would buy a camera now that doesn’t shoot HD ?
Me. I’ve never used the video on any of my cameras, ever.
And from speaking to my colleagues at work most of them never use video on their cameras though one or two did admit to shooting the odd clip on their phones.
Video is still very much a minority pursuit for most people though it is growing in popularity with phone users. But for every camera user I’ve seen using video there are ten taking still photos.
Poll results based on you and your limited observations?
Just because most consumers want a camera with HD video recording, doesn’t mean many will actually use it. But they will see that other manufacturers offer HD, so why should the consumer choose a camera which does not offer it ?
You can exchange HD for 4K in the above paragraph soon.
Most consumers!
Sorry I thought you said “… that doesn’t shoot 4K” but it’s HD.
But in fact most still shoot 720p due to the equippement they have that can’t do fast fullHD editing.
I disagree with you about 4k, however the on-sensor stabilisation looks promising as well as the EVF. Panasonic has great 1080p image quality, so this might be my first move away from Olympus, at least for shooting video.
I am not sure if the on-sensor stabilisation will work with video (like the GX7).
4K pointless unless you have a 4K TV?
16 megapixel stills pointless unless you have a billboard to hang them on?
Of course not. More pixels in video means even more options to work your files….
Crop
Pan
Zoom
Over-sample 1080p to increase perceived detail and reduce noise
…more!
Yeah, it’s meant for beginners and amateurs with too much money. Same as the 35mmFF ppl. If you can’t zoom, pan and crop properly, than I guess your result won’t be worth looking at anyway.
Maybe it won’t record it, but will output it via HDMI like the A7s?
Thats the only reason why I did not buy any MFT camera except of the GH-series. I really hope this is possible.
It looks like Panasonic has taken a learning experience to heart. We get three DISTINCT and VIABLE 4/3 approaches. the super movie maker, the fast fixed lens, and the tiny toy that is not toy-ed down too far. Olympus needs to wake up. They can cede the movie maker to Panasonic and the tiny toy. They have one success story, the tricked out and optimal DSLR-like models. To revive the Pen, they need a fast pancake, or they need to move to a fixed lens. At the moment, it is indistinct and behind the times because the pancake zoom lens is expensive and two-stops slow. History is gonna show that a fast, fixed lens would have been more like the Pen success story of old. The LX100 and RX100 are gonna be home run siblings. (Does anyone else think the LX and RX thing is funny? Native Japanese can do neither of these sounds, but differentiates by means of an approximate vowel, eru, and aru…)
Now I see: GM5 is GX8.
agree & disagree
GM5 may likes GX5
EVF w/o tiles,
GX7 sensor update,addition feture DFD autofucus ,
no 4K record,price lower than GX7,same level to A6000,EM-10
because panny cut off GF&G lines,and GM/GX price to high more than competitor
cams.
Of course it doesn’t record 4K.
Who would buy the GH4 otherwise, except for a very limited amount of PROs?
Booo! Was always going to be difficult to fit 4K in to a GM sized body *and* sensor stabilization. Too difficult to pull the heat away….
I had guessed that if the GM5 did do 4k, it would end up being in a body more like the GX7 (which would have been fine for me!!). SO… waiting for a GX8 now….
I don’t really care about the GM2 or GM5 as I already own a GM1.
But what about the new compact 35-100mm ??? No news on it ??? Thx
Boooohhhh Geeko get no toy, Geeko cries.
Sad and funny at the same time.
“The GM5 has 16 megapixel sensor, built-in EVF (just like the LX100) and on sensor stabilization.”
You’ve just answered why it doesn’t do 4k!…………… “and on sensor stabilization.”
So all the nongs that keep insisting that Olympus should implement it in the E-M1; go suck eggs! 😉 Especially that ‘standover’ twit on twitter.
Well, many of us here aren’t demanding 5-axis IBIS and 4k, but we WOULD like Oly to at least have 1080p video of the same quality as basically panasonic’s entire line. That really isn’t too much to ask.
Bullshit. Sensor doesn’t generate the heat, the problem is in battery and CPU. Those needs to be isolated from sensor to keep temperature low. Even GoPro has 4k recording in SMALLER and fully enclosed PLASTIC body and can record hours without heat problems. And even in GoPro 3 black edition the battery causes 95% of the heat.
It doesn’t matter where the heat is being generated, it is obvious that IBIS & 4k video are an issue.
More important than the ability of 4k, at this time, is the use of IBIS during video. As of yet, only Olympus’s 5-axis technology has produced admirable results during video recording. If Panasonic can match or best it, then their dedication to serious video users will allow them to use any adaptable lens with built-in stabilization. Panny, we absolutely need IBIS during video for the future of the format!
Squeezy. The addition of 4k will compromise the camera. Smaller cameras need the sensor to be stationary mounted so that the heat associated with 4k recording is dissipated over the magnesium/metal body. With the sensor being magnetically “floating” with IBIS, it produces problems with heat management, if 4k was to be implemented. That is why 4k wouldn’t work with the GM5 if IBIS is certainly a feature.
Bullshit. Sensor doesn’t generate the heat, the problem is in battery and CPU. Those needs to be isolated from sensor to keep temperature low. Even GoPro has 4k recording in SMALLER and fully enclosed PLASTIC body and can record hours without heat problems. And even in GoPro 3 black edition the battery causes 95% of the heat.
Everything people claim about 4k heating sensor is pure bullshit.
We can exposure m4/3 sensor for hours for full 16Mpix readouts without problem.
We are not using CMOS technology 5-6 years back or same electronics.
My Mistake, what i meant to say. The fact that the sensor is magnetically “floating” mounted, causes it to be a problem with the heat generated from the processor and components.
You fine sir, are incorrect.
Yes, we should have expected that 4K + IBIS in a tiny body = unsurmountable heat dissipation problems (with current technology). In the meantime, Intel has announced (see eg here: http://www.itpro.co.uk/mobile/22111/intel-broadwell-core-m-release-date-set-for-october) that the new Broadwell Core M CPU @ 14nm (to be released in October) will solve heat dissipation problems and allow, for the first time, to build fanless ultrabooks less than 9mm thick. Unfortunately, by the time the technology trickles down to camera chips, I will be a senior citizen, rather than a middle-aged man…
But there is still hope that the new organic sensors, whenever they happen, which will require new foundries, anyway, will be built with more modern machine tools (esp. more modern steppers), allowing for a more modern microarchitecture.
What’s a stepper?
From Wikipedia:
“A stepper is a device used in the manufacture of integrated circuits (ICs) that is similar in operation to a slide projector or a photographic enlarger. Steppers are an essential part of the complex process, called photolithography, that creates millions of microscopic circuit elements on the surface of tiny chips of silicon. These chips form the heart of ICs such as computer processors, memory chips, and many other devices.”
Nikon is one of the companies that makes steppers. They used to be the market leader, but I think they lost a lot of market share to another company.
Thanks.
Sorry, but your camera sensor doesn’t consume 45-120W
Neither does my tablet – the new Intel chips are supposed to be used for tablets as well. Anyway, 14nm architecture does not refer to the function of the chip, but to the length of a single functional transistor – basically to the amount of miniaturization (which, in addition to allowing for greater processing power and smaller overall size, also affects energy efficiency). The technology (once bought and paid for) can be used for any type of chip, from CPUs to image sensors and processors.
Try this article to get an idea what it is about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_nanometer
Any word on:
* weather sealing
* tilt screen
* touch screen
* dimensions
* styling and EVF location
* focus tech: DFD?
* kit or lens pairings
* color options
* hot shoe
* IBIS improvements
* mechanical shutter limited to 1/500?
* new grip with battery access
* taller body that allows lenses not to block tripod plate
* pop up flash
* buttons and dials update
Thanks. Where’s @SomeGuy
a great question list – would love to see a dad taller body to allow lenses not to block tripod plate and more buttons and dials – of course hope it will still have Touch LCD – and Tilt LCD – a new grip like the original with battery/card access would be nice –
I suspect EVF on left like that of the LF1 but not a pop up type – The GM1 is so small – I would prefer a bit taller or wider body to fit Fn buttons and dials – I expect that electronics shutter will improve but suspect it will still be 1/500 – so a built in ND filter would be nice –
again, if you have a GM1 get a mini ballhead – fixed my tripod gripes.
Good tip. Thanks
+1 for ND
My guess, definitely has touch screen. Must have if they have so few buttons and dials.
If this is to replace GX, hot shoe for sure.
I fixed the tripod issue by buying a cheap mini-ballhead
pop-up flash for sure
hope too they improve mechanical shutter speeds
hope for IBIS
but I doubt weather sealing, taller body, and tilt screen.
That’s kind of a disappointment. Well, if it still has high spec 1080 (like the Sony 5100) and a better IBIS (better than LX7 and always working) it is something I could live with.
Let’s see.
The addition of 4k will compromise the camera. Smaller cameras need the sensor to be stationary mounted so that the heat associated with 4k recording is dissipated over the magnesium/metal body. With the sensor being magnetically “floating” with IBIS, it produces problems with heat management. That is why 4k wouldn’t currently work with the GM5 if IBIS is certainly part of it’s feature-set.
The current GX7, GH3, and GM1 1080p is superior to that of the Sony 5100, so I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
I’m afraid we won’t see DFD either. @admin?
Omitting their latest and greatest focus tech would be a bummer, especially if Panasonic expects to make this a “premium” model. That seems more important than a few millimeters.
Not sure how omitting DFD would save any space. Isn’t it just a software feature?
Primarily hardvare, that’s why older cameras cannot be updated to have DFD.
I am more than happy to sacrifice 4K for Pana 1080p + EVF + IBIS. What a handy tool this will be. Fingers crossed the sensor stabilisation is epic, I cry a little bit inside every time I see the E-M1s IBIS in action knowing that Olympus won’t (are not allowed due to Panasonic sensor deal?) implement 25p. Oh the sales Oly would unlock, that it looks like Panasonic are about to steal…
Agreed. Panny’s 1080p is already equal to or better than any DSLR 1080p with the GM1 and GX7. If they can put in a better implementation of IBIS, it would still be great for shooting video.
4k or not, I kinda like what Panasonic is doing here. Their cameras never sucked it’s just that they were somehow always forgotten when competing with what people perceive as traditional camera brands. Streamlined offerings and distinguishable features is the way to go for them. Olympus produces some top glass but when it comes to bodies they don’t seem to have a coherent strategy.
I have Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic and Olympus – had also Canon gear – and my favorite to use camera is the GX7 followed by the GH4 – I agree that Panasonic is just above Samsung – meaning That Fuji and Olympus and Sony get most of the attention and hype in mirrorless or system cameras – so even if Panasonic where to come out with a wonder camera the brand or Panasonic would hurt it –
It does not matter what Leica comes out with it is always hyped to be unmatchable –
so ironic to read reviews that hail the looks with no battery grip yet the same writer will criticize another brand for not having a grip 🙂
Well, Leica is something like a cult, fashion statement brand. Technical merit is not the most important thing for their customers. I agree about GX7 though – nearly flawless camera in terms of features (maybe better EVF and MIC jack would be nice) and also ergonomically great, yet it was forgotten almost as soon as the E-M1 hype started. I bet they lost money even though the camera as such was great.
Totally agree –
Totally agree about the GX7 being severely under recognized owing to the EM1. I hope that the GM5 shrinks the GX7 a bit and adds weather sealing and some GH4 tech. It would be my favorite M43 camera.
The best news is the GM5 shares the same very high 2.8mp EVF with the LX100 which is twice the resolution of most other EVFs? My best guess is the GM5 and LX100 will share a very similar body only the GM5 with m4/3 lens mount and both given dimensions leaked for the LX100 may be very similar to the earlier Pany patent with the EVF in the middle rather than on end like GX7 ie replacement for both the DSLR G series and GX series with a significantly smaller but capable camera. This will also enable Pany to lower the price of the GM1 which should make it even more popular.
I just hope the EVF viewport isn’t as small as in those patent drawings. Looks like small magnification if so.
Instead of looking at gadget features, I would look at those terrible menus, wonky manual controls, tiny sensor, poor AF, poor battery life, poor viewfinder, no radio flash system, silly prices, software-reliant lenses… Enough now, but there is more.
Instead, today’s problem is “we have no 4K”. This is hilarious.
LOL this is a beauty.
zzzzzz…
Is the EVF rumoured to be centre or side? Very fond of the GX7s EVF placement! Sounds silly, but it is really nice to be able to smile/talk at your model/bride knowing that your face and mouth can be seen. I think it relaxes them, instead of them having to look down the lens.
I just want to know how much the price of the GM1 will drop.
one can get the GM1 with lens for $538 and body only for $380 new on Ebay – so we have already seen a price drop – but I still see B&H price at $747.99 – I would have expected that the price at B&H would have dropped as release of GM5 is in few days
+$30 shipping on that eBay price unfortunately. But still, the prices hovers in the low $400 range, which is a nice price for such a fun camera.
I agree – some retailers offer free shipping – but might be $20 more – so good to do the math – the only thing that makes me wait for the GM5 is the IBIS – so I can use some of the lightweight Olympus primes – as they are small as they have no IS otherwise I would have jumped on getting a GM1 – but the kit lens is a good one and has IS but not a fast lens
I have a feeling the GM5 will be in the $800-$1000 range, which puts it out of reach for me as a “fun” camera. Plus the EVF and such they’re packing in means it will no longer be the tiny camera that made me get the GM1–it will start encroaching on the space occupied by the larger m4/3 cameras, and for me that eliminates its raison d’être.
But we’ll see. Lots of questions yet about how big the GM5 is and what features it has. It might still turn my head yet.
@admin
Is this the GM5?
http://www.43rumors.com/new-panasonic-mft-camera-patent/
Thanks for sharing the Pany patent drawings of what might very well be the new GM5. Certainly the dimensions seem to match the width and height given for the coming LX100 model. The Leica design influence is very evident with its rounded ends. The smaller size than GX7 is possible because of its apparent use of lower height 16/9 vrs 3/2 LCD screen size as other manufactures like Sony and Oly have done on their smaller models. With its lowered shoulders it will appear and feel smaller.
Looks OK to me; better thumb grip needed though and please ditch the antique strap lugs
Everyone is entitled to their own wishes but I for one would not be asking Pany to replace their sturdy strap lugs for easily crushable flat ones as something new does not necessarily mean better. Given the cost of these cameras and various strap options I would want the sturdier version even if protruding a little.
Perhaps they could do flush, proprietary ones that require a tool and licensed fasteners. Nah. Who would do such a thing?! 😉
very interesting – seems to have the same dials on the right-looking from the back –
seems to have a tilt lcd and it has a evf and a pop up flash – but no control wheel 🙁
just few buttons above lcd – I wonder if button on lcd is some sort of a joystick – also wonder what the large nob on the front is for
Hope not, i want a nicer grip!
Being a GM1 successor I dont’ expect a grip, the “5” is because now it has EVF, if it was a GX8 though, I would expect a grip.
Hold off hating on the GM5 until the design is made public. So far we have rumors. My guess: Adding an EVF and *possibly* intending for this to be a replacement for the GX series, hints at the design being altered quite a bit from the GM1. It’ll have to be a bit bigger. Better and additional manual controls might simply happen as a result of those changes.
As a GM1 owner I have to say I find the controls and menus quite tolerable considering the size of the camera, it’s a pretty good trade-off. Everyone who’s only tried it a few times bitches about it, but once you’ve used the camera on a daily basis you get a feel for it, and it’s not as bad as you think. I was thinking “how am I ever going to get used to this fiddly crap” but it came to me surprisingly quick.
Only remaining gripes I have with the GM1 are:
• I could have used just one more custom button instead of the Video button.
• The “Electronic Shutter” is forced on with manual lenses, and reduces the image to 10-bit.
• The Electronic Front Curtain shutter needs to go to higher speeds.
• The battery is too damn weak.
That being said, Panasonic will no doubt be aware of the criticism from those reviewers and users who have only tried it for a few hours, so I’m guessing it’ll improve on the GM5.
For me it was no surprise. The GM5 is a small camera and I didn’t think they would go past the heat issue just like so I wasn’t expecting it.
I think the addition of sensor or IBIS to the GM5 will make it a very good camera to use with such good small fast primes like the Oly 45 and 75mm or Pany 20-25 especially with its high resolution EVF.
Not much of a surprise at all, frankly.
IPhone 6 many be the best option for most…
As long as it comes with an EVF (preferably at least a tilt LCD) even if it the old 12mp sensor, I am still interested. 🙂
With this news… I predict a depletion of the first batch of LX100 to the first day of preorder 😉
Yes.
Please go back to 12mp for more detail and DR, please. a center EVF aint bad, either.
News flash for MrALLCRAP, the 16mp sensor does have MORE detail and DR. What a Moron.
now now… language 🙂 What MrALLCAPS is probably saying is that if you use a 16MP sensor to produce 12mp images, those 4 extra mp could be used for better light gathering, faster and more accurate focus, faster capture/scan rates. It’s not a terrible idea in terms of image quality, however in marketing terms it would be awful. I doubt we’ll ever see a came manufacturer step backwards in the megapixel race. Even if you gained a huge improvement in ISO quality it just wouldn’t sell.
Except for the Sony A7S. The pixels are halved over the A7, and one third of the A7R, and the reduced pixels were for exactly the reasons mentioned by OP.
At some point ISO noise will be neglegable on all cameras and then this discussion will center on some other annoying detail…
So much for the “GX7 replacement” claim. If they’d make a GX7 successor already, it would probably be capable of 4K because that’s what would be expectable from a premium model. The GX line is still situated above the GM line by price and features.
The GX line has always been described by Panasonic as their photographic emphasized line. The GM’s small size is it’s emphasis. There isn’t really a hierarchy between them at all, just different product lines for different purposes.
GX7 replacement???
GM5 replaces the GM1.
I was referring to this: http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-new-gm2-will-actually-replace-the-gx7/
If the GM5 had in body IS, it would be a real killer. Combine that with teeny weeny non stabilized lenses for a killer pocketable low light package.
@admin …”No(!) on sensor stabilization”?? I hope there is a typo 😉 , otherwise I’ll not buy it.