I have now many more info about the LX100. It has a 16MP Four Thirds multi aspect sensor. Which means resolution should be a bit lower than 16MP. The size of the camera is really more compact than the Canon G1xII which uses a similar large sensor (see image on top).
– Sensor: 16MP Multi aspect Four Thirds(!). Real resolution is a bit lower.
– 24-75mm f/1.7-2.8 lens
– Built-in EVF: 2,76 milion dots, 1.39x / 0.7x magnification
– ISO 200-25600. Can be extended down to 100!
– 4K recording (with time limitation to avoid heating issue)
– exact camera size: 4.52″ x 2.6″ x 2.4″
– hot shoe
Announcement on Monday September 15 at 13:00 in Berlin time!
[poll id=”248″]
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
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FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
439 Responses
mi piace
The size from the front really isn’t that interesting, looks like a normal MFT body. The main concern is going to be the ‘top view’ as a F1.7-2.8 on MFT is not going to be a pancake if any decent quality is to be expected. Just look at Olympus’s 12-40mm F2.8. (i’d assume that the 24-75mm mentioned here is the 35mm equivalent, so it be more like 12-37.5mm.)
Yes, It’ll be more like a 12-37mm f/1.7-2.8 equi 35mm 24-75m f/3.5-5.6
The LX100, as depicted here, looks to be the perfect size. Maybe a bit smaller than the Fuji X30? If it handles like an X30 (twist zoom, great controls) this will be a winner.
Any word on weather sealing? This is a go everywhere camera, so that would be very handy.
I imagine that would be a headline feature, so I wouldn’t hold my breath! But I agree, it would be really good to have.
That said, it’s the kind of thing that adds 20% or so to the sale price, cheaper to buy a waterproof case.
A case for this would make sense. I’d want one
I have a feeling you will buy one 🙂
This or GM5… 🙂
I wonder how much the LCD tilts. If into a selfie (which with 4K becomes important to video bloggers), Pen7 is in trouble
Very unlikely it’s tilt LCD. And I’m sure it’s OLED
Selfie screen and EVF seems like an unlikely pairing. So far as I know RX100 III is the only camera with both built in (well in this context anyway). A55/33/57/65/77/99 have them in a way, as does G1-6 and GH1-4.
it´s a fixed lens camera so weather sealing should be no problem.
you are not going to dive with it?
Rain, snow, dust and freeze proof would be just fine. Nobody would complain about submersible, of course. 🙂
On second thought, some would complain. 😉 Especially if it made the buttons “mushy.”
dust and sand…nr one enemy for the zoomlens. would be very nice to have sealing there.
I’m going to find it very hard to resist.
You really need to fix the grammar in your polls. “Would you consider to buy” isn’t a wording I’ve ever heard anyone use. “Would you consider buying a Panasonic LX100?” is more correct.
I’ll get in first. The admin is not a native English speaker. Would you rather be reading the site in German? I think he does an admirable job.
Admin does a great job. Love this site.
Me too, and he does.
Just trying to be helpful. If it wasn’t a recurring error, I wouldn’t have mentioned it.
He does do a great job. I work with international students who want to learn english, so I’m not used to grammar advice being taken personally, and it wasn’t meant that way at all.
better be, people here are very sensitive in this (admin excluded)
Why didn’t you explain that the verb “to consider” is always followed by a gerund? That way your well-intended criticism could have had actual educational value.
Because I work in a computer science research lab, not an English department. But thanks. 🙂
Maybe you should stick with giving advice in your field of expertise.
Because being a native English speaker, years of writing grant applications, writing many research papers, proofreading/marking work and tutoring students/staff in English isn’t enough qualification to help the OP correct a grammatical error. Right. 😉
Apparently not.
that explains it all, but nvm admin responded by correcting.
Thanks for butting in, Tron. We all love a know-it-all.
come on take my money……
I have an E-Pl6…I have no need fo this camera…mine is small, it can do more and I can put any lens on it that I want…..
Can you put this lens on it?
Better ones!!!! 🙂
…and a better viewfinder!!!
…AND…I don’t have to spend any more money!
Where is this 12-35mm f/1.7-2.8 or better lens you speak of? I’d love to buy one. I’d pay $1000 just for that lens.
ok…wait…I will create a GREAT photograph at f/2.8. You create one at f/1.7. No one will ever really quibble about it if the shots are solid.
Or better yet…you buy this camera, I will use mine and we can compare the big differences. LOL! The only change that will make me buy another MFT camera is a new sensor with lower noise and higher dynamic range.
This is just silly, cutsie stuff like the GM1. (oh..wait …NO VF)….it really isn’t going to squeeze any money out of my pocket. There is no revolution there for this photographer…but to each his own.
You can’t mount this lens though! And the Pen series doesn’t have viewfinders, which is why I had to move to the O-MD series. My eyes can’t handle using a rear LCD anymore, and I never really liked the detachable EVF’s, even though I used one for nearly three years.
The VF-4 is state of the art for MFT!
Cant it take 4k movies or even 24p or 25p 0r 60p? EPL6 is nice camera but I could not go back to looking at 460k res LCDs
I only shoot stills!!! 🙂
The LCD is fine..although Oly made it better with the E-PL7
…but I only paid $300 for an brand new E-PL6 body…I can live with the LCD.
Sorry Bob, but as great as your PL6 is, this camera will probably beat it across the board.
Also, there currently is no 12-37.5mm f/1.7-2.8 lens in m43 mount. If there was and if it was as compact as this will likely be, they could charge $1200+ for it and it would be sold out for months.
Me no buy. Otherwise the specs are great. Multi aspect come back is good, too. And hope they are going to release this lens separately.
If the multi-aspect ratio sensor is truly making a return, hopefully we’ll see it in the next GX and GH models!
It’s really the thing not in the GX7 that I miss the most from my GH2!
16MP??? YES!!
So nearly as deep as it is tall? Hmm seems rather ‘thick’. Hopefully that is ‘on’ with lens extended.
Well noted.
The “depth” is almost certainly the depth of the body + lens when the lens is retracted. The part of the body you hold will certainly be slimmer.
Hopefully not. Otherwise it sticks out a LOT if you ask me. Obviously the body itself will be slimmer, but still.
Probably will be the case, taking a look in the complete measurements of the G1X Mark II body: 4.57 x 2.91 x 2.6″ – depth almost the size of the height, too.
No, it will not be a pocket camera. The target is the G1X II and the X100s.
I see no reason why should I cosider this over a PL7 or EM10. 24-75 1.7-2.8 from Pana would not be cheap, this for sure
Might not be things you need but 4K, built in EVF and smaller size (if lens is real) are pretty differentiating. It likely won’t come close to the price of the EPL7 and the IQ will likely be the same, however. Like the Fuji X100t, this will likely be pricy and worth it to many. 🙂
Plus built-in flash, too.
Does it? I hope you’re right. I hate Olympus’ clip on. One more thing to carry/misplace.
EPL7 has to be cheap as it is not what most people really want, LX1000 will sell a lot if priced competitively.
maybe, but epl stilll has one advantage, to use several lenses. for the ones who need it.
Very true. But Oly seems to be positioning the EPL7 as a very consumer, female, selfie camera. That market often sticks to the kit lens. You, me and others here, of course, see it as a great carrier for fast primes and a possible backup body. The “selfie” mode is really useful and fun, particularly for video bloggers. I wish they’d positioned the EPL7 more as an enthusiast model, with the same dials and switches as the OM and EP models. Oh well. I bet the GM5 goes after the small, “serious” photog! Can’t wait to see that one!
eh..i would gladly help any(prob cute asian, as someone mentioned before) girl to enlighten her about the benefits of swapping lenses. She would no care ofcourse, but i might have my 5 mins. Seriously, surely many readers, will see the epl7 is more then a selfmachine, I think the IBIS is reason enough for videographers who like to do smoother footage with as lil as possible gear. Ofcourse we could go for used em5/10 or ep5 gear as well, this for the budget minded ones.
You would consider it because: The focal lengths covered by the LX100 are what you primarily shoot and, that lens is likely many magnitudes better than the kit lens that comes with the PL7.
Wish they could have extended the range to 85mm. That would have been ideal. Well, constant aperture f/2 with 24-85mm would have been ideal, but perhaps a tad unrealistic. Still, I would miss the lack of 8.5mm on this.
i cant imagine the difference in rendering/impact or view from 75 to 85, for me at least.
Agreed. And 24 instead of 28 would be more useful to me.
I hope it doesn’t weigh as much as the Canon G1X.
I did a quick comparison for size. I imagined the shaped of the LX 100 how I think it could be realistic and took the size from this rumor.
Sorry made a mistake in scaling this one is correct:
The LX is still too long there. it should be 50% longer (2.4″ vs 1,61″), it’s about 70% in your pic.
The LX100 should only slightly thicker than the fuji x30, while being slightly smaller in the other 2 dimensions. (x30 vs rx100 : http://camerasize.com/compare/#563,555)
Maybe there folded lens like Lumix 12-32. I hope. But “exact camera size”: 4.52″ x 2.6″ x 2.4″ – too thick.
I believe the multi-aspect sensor means it can resolve close to the full 2x crop in 4K recording mode (1.86x crop in photo mode). I could see Panasonic taking this road on future m43 cameras to avoid the 2.3x crop experienced “standard” sensors in 4K video mode.
I am afraid the dimension measurements seem unlikely or wrong. 2.6 inches tall?
Although I’ll not buy this camera , still it’s real well done camera from Pana .
Considering the specs from previous highend compacts , it is a mass leaping in sensor & aperature .
Kudos to Lumix again .
The GM is another camera that having my attention .
a camera of 20years coming. I’m very impressed. STUNNING CAMERA
Mic input and is the perfection of a era
So, as I thought: Bye bye LC 1 design….
There is more new camera to come from Pana?
Ready to order NOW!!!!
WOO HOO!!! I have been waiting for a camera like this.
How much do you get for those dumb lines Tron?
What a HUGE step forward. Seems like they looked at the RX100, but then did leaps and bounds and move ahead of it.
LX100 is the new class act!
More like panasonic finally caught up. The lens sensor size and camera size fits right between the gx1 and rx100 perfectly. Nothing ” leaps and bound”
4k video?, larger sensor than RX100, faster lens than G1XII?
larger sensor than RX100? it is suppose to be! Now if it was smaller than the rx100 with a bigger sensor and faster lens, we can call it ” leaps and bound” Not to mention this is release 2 full years after rx100.
The GX1 II sensor is a joke and that camera is relatively huge, so it’s not even in the discussion.
Really? Have you tried it? Mine is really good.
Maybe saying it’s “a joke” was a little strong, but it doesn’t live up to it’s potential. It’s larger than the 1″ sensors, but performs worse in just about every category and the current m43 sensors outperform any 1″ sensor.
Really? Have you tried it yet?
I believe that you are correct and I can partially tell by the over-reaction coming from our resident clown posse. Anytime the trolls react this strongly it betrays their internal fears and doubts about their own preconceived notions.
“4K recording (with time limitation to avoid heating issue)”
Time limitation not to beat the GH4.
If the camera is to small, then it may be a real reason, GH4 is very hot wen recording 4K, but it is big enough to dissipate heat from the body.
It must be the processor. If it’s on the bottom a heat sink might help to dissipate.
Even with tight tight limit like 1 min, 4k will still be very useful.
i don’t think so. It would be a kind 4K toy camera.
It pulls the stills from the 4K footage…
depending on you intentions 1 min raw shoots can be enough(like for video clip or certain film projects)
It will be hardly ‘raw’. The question is how long does it take to cool down.
with the ”depending” i was thinking about people who edit their videos, and no need shoot concerts family stuff etc …. they need raw stuff, ofcourse i wasnt speaking about formats in RAW. I think the heat issue willl depend too on the processor, maybe newer ones need less voltage etc resulting in less heat? (just thinking here about alll those ulv chips for laptops)
Watch any movie. A maximum length of an unbroken sequence is a few seconds. For sports, a jump takes a second, and at 24fps+, 4k video is very useful for that.
Hardly believe that anyone wants to make a movie with this camera.
I record concerts and sport events (e.g. acrobatic bike) and the minimum length would be at least 15 min. 1 min is good for people who make mostly “test” and “cat” videos.
I didn’t think this was april 1 already … can’t believe this (too-good-to-be-true) rumor either after so many wrong hints at this but I sure hope I’m mistaken !
The EVF sounds excellent. 2.8MP is higher than the E-M1, and what’s with the 1.39x/0.7x magnification? Can anyone explain to me what that means?
And the dimensions are something else. Basically, it’s the same size as my E-PL1 with the Panny 20/1.7 mounted. Except this has an 12-37.5/1.7-2.8, AND a better EVF than my E-M1? Bloody hell, it’s a good time to be a photographer.
If this retails for under US$1000 (and it had better, the RX100Mk3 is $799), then why would anyone buy an Olympus 1-40/2.8 or Panasonic 12-35/2.8 anymore?
Still no word if the lcd is flip up, tilt, or articulating?
I really have a hard time believing that it really is that size. and if yes, I will be really pissed of at pana and oly for not making smaller interchangeable mft lenses!
plus I just saw over at photorumors that the lens will be 10.9-34/1.7-2.8… maybe the sensor isn’t quite four thirds sized…
It will be slightly cropped from a 4/3’s sensor, much like the G1X is multi-aspect as the lens won’t quite cover the full sensor area (the corners will never be used).
Also makes it barely bigger than the one found in the RX100 MkII.
I hope they are smart enough to have a mode to allow the whole sensor to be used. Even if the corners will be black, it will give the nice rounded picture and still more useful info than a straight rectangular crop.
To crop later? Don’t know, they never did with GH1/GH2. Canon also don’t on the G1X. Just means that resolution doesn’t change much regardless of aspect ratio used. A square sensor could open up a few extra options I suppose.
If the specs are true, this will be a game changer.
It will be a little bit better than RX100, a little bit bigger and a little bit more expensive. A ‘game changer’ it is not, not really. See the two cameras on either side up there? This is competition, not a whole new game.
A P&S camera that also does 4K and has an m43’s sensor shoehorned in there? Its a little more than just an iteration on the RX100.
4K will be in everything within about 12 months. A P&S smartphone already does it. It’s cool to be sure, but is it really a ‘game changer’? RX100 does ‘apps’ does that make it a game changer?
I’d be surprised if the new iPhone 6, coming today in a few hours, doesn’t do 4K. Agree that it will be everywhere in 6 months (and in that hot new Samsung APSC camera very soon), but for now, it is an advantage that Panasonic can press. They’d be wise to show a smart, efficient workflow for pulling stills from clips. Nobody has done that yet.
Pulling stills from video footage is quite the over exaggerated ‘advantage’ that really isn’t as useful as Panasonic currently likes to make out. Yes 4K is definitely a point of difference for now. On the other hand size is a point of difference with the RX100 III. I think it will need something more than ‘just’ 4K video to usurp the RX100 III to be honest, as it’s tiny size IS the killer feature of the RX100 III (but hopefully the extra competition DOES reduce prices across all three competitors).
Agree that tiny size (and big IQ) is the Sony RX100iii killer feature. It all comes down to personal priorities. For me, the RX100 cameras handle like compacts (which makes sense). But what I love about the X30 is the handling (and style). I hope that in giving back a little size, the LX100 handles like a full on enthusiast camera, not like a point and shoot.
I think the stills from 4K needs a software solution to make it easy. Then it becomes killer. But as it is now, seems very cumbersome and hardly worth the effort for most uses.
This is a good point, I will have to look up the X30 dimensions but seems like it would be quite similar.
The problem with extracting stills from 4K video (much like from 1080p video) are that video is ‘usually’ shot with a 1/2x Frame Rate, so around 1/50th or 1/60th of a second and the normal shutter speed. This is too slow for a LOT of stills shooting. Additionally we are talking about a 100Mbps bitrate, at 8 bit 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 colour sampling. That is about a half megabyte 8 bit 8MP JPEG per frame (though this is not exactly how it works due to temporal compression). This is hardly ideal for good quality still images. Add in rolling shutter issues, the fact the sensor ‘only’ really does an 8 bit read out in electronic shutter mode (not 8 bit compression from a higher bitrate read out) and it really doesn’t sell the idea very well. It ‘could’ be helpful on the odd occasion where you HAVE to extract a still from a video, but otherwise it is pretty pointless.
Have you ever tried extracting a still image from a video? It is basically exactly that, but with a higher resolution.
Yes, you’d need to shoot the video at a high shutter speed, which makes the video look like the opening scene in “Saving Private Ryan” — cool, frenetic, gritty look, but not the smooth video we’re accustomed to. But continuous 24 or 29 fps 8mp stills for action would be fun. Or I could just develop better timing. 🙂 The ability to stabilize and punch in on the video would likely be more useful.
Just because you fail to understand and properly implement a technique, does not make it bad. Taking stills from a “movie” is absolutely the future of photography as technology advances and frame rates go up.
Yeah mate, insult me and tell me it’s ‘the future’ without ever actually rebutting any of the issues raised… Like a typical internet ‘genius’. Good work champ!
Not your mate, and you demonstrated your lack of knowledge from your statement on it’s supposed “issues.”
Nice work d1ckbean. Well if 8 bit (off an 8 bit readout) half meg 8MP JPEGs with rolling shutter are your idea of good go for it! But don’t forgot to swallow when lapping up whatever Panasonic tells you in the marketing material. A$$wad.
Actually is a little smaller than the X30 @ 4.69″ x 2.83″ x 2.36″, but a bit deeper (bigger lens).
Thanks for digging up the numbers. The X30 gained a little size over the 10 and 20. This is big for a “compact,” but very comfortable to hold. I’m psyched that the LX100 is in that range. I can see it costing 2X the price of an X30, however. They could be gunning for the X100T if the lens is really as rumored. It will need to look and handle in another league to beat that camera. I hope they deliver.
Yeah, I can see that too. I’m not really sure why they didn’t just stick with 1″ like the FZ1000, but I guess they are gunning for the X100 and priced as such (or G1X + EVF). Though no word on price just yet, so wil reserve judgement there. Like that it is similar to the X30 size wise. I am slightly surprised though at the lack of ‘disappointment’ that it only goes to 75mm on the long end, this apparently was a big bugbear of the RX100 III and many claims about the ‘LX8’ were that it goes to 90mm (or more).
I cannot stand the apps in Sony cameras. I am not buying Sony consumer products at all, after experiencing their quality and guarantee.
That isn’t really the point of my statement. It’s about feature check boxes on the marketing material. 4K doesn’t, on it’s own, create a ‘game changer’. The original RX100 was a game changer, this is an alternative product in a market that is growing quickly.
Agreed on 4k, but the M43 sensor isn’t a massive step up from the RX100.
Doing the maths, M43 @f2.8 captures almost exactly one stop more light than a Sony 1″ sensor @f2.8. So, its a stop faster at the long end than the RX100mk3.
Nice, but not a game changer. And you lose the pocket-ability for that 1 stop of light….
Organic Sensor is real game change 😉
what would it change?
I imagine the multi-aspect sensor will allow it to be perfect for 4K 16:9 without needing further crop of the camera. I do however, think that since the actual sensor is a 43rds sized sensor at 16MP, the 16:9 4K imagine will be around 12MP. So the crop factor will still be more than 2X. It’s an elegant solution, but still with some sacrifices on the crop factor. In the end it will be between the RX100 and the G1X II.
4k is 16:9 by ratio and it is ONLY 8Mpix….
Assuming they don’t use a sensor crop for 4K recording like they do on the GH4.
Go Panasonic! ……at last some excitement in the camera market.
yes very interesting camera very cool
just wondering if it would add stabilisation for video, any news about that Admin?
Almost certainly as it is fixed lens pana have done this on all their other fixed lenses.
It looks like an interesting camera for sure. It is not small enough, particularly in terms of depth, to compete with the RX100, which offers “good enough” IQ in a small package. So it will be competing with other m4/3 and other mirrorless offerings, which are getting smaller and smaller and are interchangeable lens cameras. Still, if true, a 24-75mm f1.8-2.8 lens could keep many a photographer happy. If this camera has the right form factor, UI, customizability, etc., it could be very, very appealing.
Damn, this or the rumoured GM5 to replace my Olympus cameras for video. For me I guess it will come down to how the built-in stability is (if any) for video.
Would this camera be able to take any ND filters?
Are you watching Olympus? and it will be availabe in silver!
What about the display? It should be tiltable, and sideways at that. But i have my doubts, considering the size.
On another site, someone mentioned a 2.2 crop factor.
http://photorumors.com/2014/09/09/panasonic-lx100-compact-camera-rumored-specifications-lx7-replacement/#more-60932
Since it is a multi-aspect sensor, the crop will vary depending on the aspect chosen.
‘Multi-aspect’ as used with GH1/2 means crop DOESN’T depend on the aspect, as it does on cameras that implement different aspect rations by cropping.
An ordinary 4/3 sensor cropped to a 16:9 aspect ratio, using the full 17.33mm sensor height has a crop factor of 2.176 compared to a 36x24mm sensor using the full sensor at 3:2 aspect ratio.
Boom. I hope four thirds doesn’t refer to sensor aspect ratio but to its physical size.
Wow! As rumored, this camera could really take some thunder away from the RX100 and the G1X, and seriously hurt the Pen too. I have been saying for a long time, f3.5-5.6 is dismal. What magic hath Panasonic/Leica wrought in a lens we are dying to see? I don’t agree that it will sit between the RX100 and the G1X. Did I miss something? 4K is fixed at 1920 * 2 * 1080 * 2 = 8294400. The fast aperture will bless very low noise for stills and video, and if the ergo is right, the G1X will slip one more rung down the ladder, from compromised, to boring. Maybe I am behind the times, but I don’t yet care much about video. Yes, I promise to get with the program at some point. At the moment it seems like too much candy.
Being 2.4″ deep, it is not an RX100 competitor, it is G1X Mk II competitor. Different class.
Well of course not, the sensor on the RX100 is a step down from the LX100.
Quite a small step down.
Have you ever picked up a G1X -they are ridiculously heavy and no competition.
Neither will be LX100 direct competition to RX100. But I am sure it will beat the Canon.
Very interesting. Now it would be better if stab work in vidéos modes and if There is an flip screen.
stabilization will of course work in video mode: it is a fixed lens camera – agree flip screen will be good addition
great specs.
Question please, How is Panasonic Jpeg engine lately?I have gh2, great for video but jpeg pictures aren’t so good.
WAY better now. LOVED the image quality of the GM1 and GX7 (!)
Thanks.
Does the function that lift shadow ( i dynamic) work fine now? The one in GH2 doesn’t really work, comparing to my Nikon’s that is.
No man, you need Canon or Nikon for that stuff. Panasonic gets you art filters though!
It works better now yes (the iDynamik feature directly – Altough you shouldn´t use it at maximum setting – Something in the “middle” is quite ok / perfect). And for each camera there are kind of “best settings” – Just wait for the reviews and read in the forums (as soon as the new models are available).
On the other hand WAY more important with the newer models: You can also adjust the curves by yourself (so you´re getting better shadow and highlight details). VERY nice now – Compared to the GH2 for example (especially if you prefer in camera settings for most of your shots).
Thank you.
Killer camera, said that already.
Soooooo M43 is trying to copie the Big Boys ones again. Always a few steps behind.
LOL
You comments are so hilarious LOL. I wander how much you get payed for making them up and spreading on the net?
No serious company would even consider giving a penny for his moronic BS
There are people payed to attract customers to one sistem and bash the other, it is is fashionable nowadays.
Which jack pocket friendly, internal 4K recording “big boy” model do you mean? 🙂
He is not interested in all of that, he only understands the FF letters LOL. I wander if Panasonic decides to make MF cameras, what then, he will bash them because the sensors are to big? LOL
Yawn……
The truth is: who cares?
That’s “copy” SD. Are you sitting on your Oxford dictionary so you can reach the keyboard?
I see you can still reach to click on upvote though. Twice so far.
Carry on.
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 SENSOR???? OMG!!!
If true I sure hope we will see a Leica version of this new Pany camera ??? … LC1 FF and Leica … ultimate camera for me !
Wasn’t the LC1 a 2/3 sensor, just like the “new” Fuji X30? Amazingly advanced for the time, and one of the best looking digital cameras ever. FF would be fun, but 4/3 actually sounds possible and smaller and affordable. I’d like a Leica, tho.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at the low resolution sensor since that’s pretty much the peak for m43, but, I just can’t go back to that res after the joy of 20, 24, 36mp sensors over the last couple of years. I don’t have the bizarre obsession with shooting at high shutter speeds in the dark that some people do so the tiny improvement in high ISO shooting that this 16mp m43 sensor has over Sony’s 1″ 20mp sensor is meaningless to me. Maybe it matters more to someone else. But, at this point, I can’t see any reason to buy this camera over the RX100 III which I already have. Bummer, as I was kinda looking forward to something new in this space. Doesn’t look like Panasonic has the chops to compete, really. But then again, nobody does when it comes to compactness against Sony, it seems.
I’m sure it’ll be a great camera for those that really need the slightly larger sensor.
I am surprised someone is still hung up over more MP in this day and age.
On compact camera no less! I guess this news and response really does prove that you will always have someone complain.
Until the last drop of small detail is squeezed from the lens, people will hung for more MP
I’ve found 12-16mp to be fine for my uses. I only print 13×19 as my largest size and the prints look great. I also crop very rarely. As the pixel density grows, you need better lenses to resolve those pixels.
I never really had problems with the resolution of the 12mp m4/3 sensors. Detail was very good at low iso. The problems I had were with high noise and low dynamic range, but the resolution was fine.
I don’t care much about either camera, but come on. M43 sensors are more than “slightly larger” than the RX100’s. And high ISO shooting comes up as soon as I get indoors, never mind about truly dark conditions. That’s why I’m glad I have an ILC I can stick an F1.4 lens to.
More pickles are needed if you need to crop, for whatever reason, the picture. I rarely crop, sometimes I just straight the picture, and 16MP of this system are good enough. I know it’s an APC sensor, but as far resolution is concerned, the 16 MP of RicohGR deliver great performance.
Meh. Tomato, tomah-to, I guess.
The RX100 has 25% more MP, M4/3 has a 93% larger sensor.
Maybe you notice the difference one way, maybe you notice it the other way…
Unless you plan on shooting all your cameras on a tripod, that extra resolution is meaningless on cameras of this size and class. That’s even only true if the lenses are up to it at reasonable apertures. There’s many reviews that already have a hard enough time showing the difference between a 16MP and 24 MP APS-C files in real world photography. If your response to a extremely compact camera with a m43 sized multi aspect sensor, a built in EVF, and a 24-75mm f/1.7-2.8 lens, is “bummer,” then you’re the problem. This is above and beyond what was expected already and blows the RX100 III and any other camera in this class out of the water.
The GH1/2 use a multi-aspect sensor that is larger than the standard 4/3 sensor. This seems to use a standard sized 4/3 sensor with a smaller imaging circle, presumably to keep lens size down.
Will this have FDF high speed, low light autofocus?
Most likely, I’m pretty sure. Instead, I wonder if this will still have the ND filter, which has been omitted in the specs above.
Built in ND and some sort of high speed flash sync would be requisite features for a camera gunning for the X100T
Only price will tell if they are really aiming at X100T, I still think that they are very different cameras for very different crowds. The LX100 will appeal much more for video people, m4/3 users and people wanting a compact camera with great quality, the X100T is none of that, it’s more of a premium photographic tool, it has Hybrid VF, it’s bigger, etc. I think more as a RX100III killer, which would again depend on the price. The RX100 is $800, how much would Panasonic ask for this one. If you think about a normal m4/3 camera with such a lens it would get pretty expensive, hopefully they can manage to keep it below $1000.
DFD 🙂
LOL. THNX! 😉
As a long time Nikon DSLR user looking for a lighter but capable travel camera, I find it sad that Nikon doesn’t offer anything similar in this market segment (their 1 series is not appealing to me). As far as this market is concerned, I can see increasing dominance by Sony, Panny and Oly. I have the feeling that when Nikon finally wants to catch up, it will be TOO LATE.
I haven’t even seen any N1 series rumors leading up to Photokina and there’s never a demo unit of the Nikon 1v3 on the floor at B&H to try out. I wonder what’s up with that. The latest version is intriguing, what with the supposed insane burst rate and focus tracking, and that 900+mm field of view zoom. It could be a great wildlife and sports camera. Except the price of the system seems pretty ludicrous. Canon is even worse, however. The EOSM is all but dead in most parts of the world, although there’s an EVF and tilt screen packing fake up on Canonwatch.com that generated a little bit of interest.
We are talking about compact camera. Brand fidelity isn’t held hostage by any investment in lenses. Great for all of us if Nikon comes out with an even greater premium compact. Too bad if they don’t.
I’m still hoping for 24-90….90 is about as short as I’d like to go.
There are teleconverters, you know? 😉
True, but if I wanted to get into wide and tele converters, filters, etc., I would just keep shooting with my m4/3 gear. The rx100 probably does the best job of packing everything in, with vf, flash, ND filter, tilt screen, etc, in a tiny, versitile package. That’s what I want for a second camera- all in one.
….wait, this does have a built in flash, right??? 😛
If this was a 1″ they would certainly do that but with a 4/3 sensor and competing for smaller size, I don’t think that they will make a 90mm.
Interesting: I’d like to see some samples taken with this lens/sensor. Low light performance should be good and the lower amount of MP will hopefully take some MEga Pickles guys back with their feet on the ground.. 🙂
Well, it’s not much lower, and shouldn’t really affect the active photosites. Using the GH2 as an example, it had an 18.3MP multi-aspect sensor, but still only captured 16MP 4:3 images. It was just also able to capture a 15MP 3:2 image.
And honestly, low-light performance improvements from reduced MP is almost entirely a myth at normally usable ISOs as long as you downsample to maintain the same print size (the only reasonable way to compare them). The A7S is a great example. It’s ISO performance is essentially indistinguishable from the A7R until you get above 12800 ISO. I shoot most of my photos around ISO 200, where I’d definitely notice the 3x (!) greater resolution…
Yep, that’s true. I’m simply surprise to see people “complaining” about a 16MP count sensor. As I wrote below, even if it’s an APS-C size sensor, that of RicohGR gives outstanding results.
Of course it has little to nothing to do with a 50MP digital back, as they’re apples and oranges.
Yes, the quality of the lens is clearly the most important factor here.
With some of my lenses, I could probably throw away half the pixels and I wouldn’t notice any difference in real resolution. With, say, my 90mm/2.8 macro, I can clearly see individual pixels of real detail at 100%. It’s almost disgusting sometimes. And I have no doubt that a bigger sensor would be able to reveal even more.
Seems like quality of the len(es) will be even more critical, if the “organic” sensor is ever to materialize.
I’m surprised to hear people complaining at all. This camera looks pretty damn amazing. I guess it’s always something though.
Exactly. Name one COMPACT SIZED 24-75mm f/1.7-2.8 lens that can cover a 4/3 or larger sensor! 🙂 I’ll believe it when I see it, but willing to go along for the ride until this turns out to be either a big lens or a 1″ sensor camera. Because if it delivers, it will be the camera of the year. Especially if it has traces of that Leica DNA
You have no reason to believe me, but the specs are real. I had an opportunity to use the camera for a short time. 4/3 sensor with a touch of crop, 24-75mm f/1.7-2.8 equivalent (IIRC actually 10.9-34mm due to the slight crop) with that sweet Leica DNA you mentioned, a lot smaller than you’re expecting, 4K video, great IBIS, EVF, etc etc etc.
My only touch of disappointment (that wasn’t explained by early firmware) was the use of plastic, but this goes both ways. It keeps the camera lightweight and didn’t make it feel poorly built, but it also doesn’t have the same premium feel I’m used to with a lot of my other Panasonic gear.
Can’t comment on price, but their thought process makes sense. No matter the price, some people will be excited and some disappointed.
Plastic has its benefits and can feel quite substantial, as iPhone5c demonstrates. Also likely improves WiFi.
With 4K video, I’d be surprised if the screen did not at least tilt. Does it?
And while Panasonic doesn’t seem to favor weather sealing except in the top of the line GH cameras, this could very well be a top of the line approach, like the X100T. Any idea about weather sealing?
Thanks
Yep, it was absolutely a touch and feel disappointment, not meant as a con for the camera. Overall I’m sure plastic was a solid engineering decision.
No tilting screen. My biggest surprise of the whole thing.
No idea on the weather sealing. It crossed my mind that this might have been the reason for excluding articulation from the screen. My guess is it is not sealed however, because 4K video generates a lot of heat that needs a way to escape.
The lack of sealing and heat requirements make sense. Bummer about the screen not tilting, but given the choice, I’d rather have the EVF.
Was your touch and feel disappointment limited to build and materials, or buttons and dials too? The controls of the GM1 were a deal breaker for me. Too easy to accidentally depress a four way control while turning that tiny, flimsy wheel…
Not build, only materials. My fingers would rather touch metal than plastic, but the camera looks and feels well built. Controls are absolutely wonderful but specifics haven’t leaked so my lips are sealed.
I’ve never really had that problem with my GM1, but I think I get what you’re saying. Biggest control complaint for me is the touch screen and my big hands’ tendency to send the focus point to the top right of the frame where my thumb likes to get friendly with the screen. The ability to move the point with my finger intentionally is too good to turn off touch though.
On the topic of touch screens.. I want to say the LX100 is not a touch screen, but it’s possible I’m mixing up multiple models on this point – or that the feature was disabled on the unit I used.
No touch or tilt seem like a strange corners to cut to lower costs on something so otherwise “premium” sounding. If it keeps the cost under US$1K, those might be worthwhile concessions. US$899 would be a home run.
But with all of these features (including tilt and touch), if it were metal, weather sealed and had great ergonomics and Leica style, it could command a higher, X100T style price, like the Nocticron.
Maybe next year’s model will get the organic sensor, all metal build, and a $1200 price tag.
Don’t quote me on touch – that’s the only thing I mentioned that I’m doubting my memory on. This time of year (right before Photokina) there’s a lot of new stuff to keep track of.
I agree that a few extra touches would have really turned this thing into a premium competitor in every way. I’m not sure they were willing to abandon the general price target though. I say general because it’s not going to be the same price as an LX7, but I expect it to still be competitive with the RX100M3 (which is more expensive than the RX100 was when the LX7 was lined up against it). Over $1k and you’re not competing with the same camera.
For the record, I would have most likely been willing to pay a premium for the features you list, but it would have changed the camera’s market position even more than the current specs do.
I actually did believe you — you sounded very credible, and were! You’re comments were spot on! And I nailed the “home run” price! But you mentioned that it was plastic and I’ve been reading that it is magnesium. Maybe you had a prototype?
Yep – wanted to tell you how close you were on price, but I couldn’t!
Hmm they’re all pre-production so far so that could be subject to change. Different models than those shown at Photokina. I could have sworn it was plastic, but now I’m doubting myself.
I’ll venture a guess that it has a magnesium chassis with a plastic exterior. Whatever it is, the build quality is very high – it just doesn’t have that same rock solid feeling that a GH4, GX7, or GM1/5 has, mostly because of the weight.
I guess the lighter weight is both a good and a bad thing. I don’t mind a little bit extra to give it that solid feel, but probably won’t miss it either.
Taking out the touch and tilt screen is a big surprise, tho. Maybe just a cost cutting to get to that magic price? The silver and brown edition is pretty odd looking too. I much prefer the black. But I’ll bet the Leica version is a stunner in black and silver.
Yeah I wasn’t sure what to think about the weight at first, but it grew on me. It’s definitely an easy camera to carry 24/7, and its weight also opens up some mounting possibilities – things like drones or on the end of a pole. Since it doesn’t feel cheaply made, it’s all positive in my head.
I’m still wondering about the touch screen. It seems like such a strange omission, but ultimately one I’m okay with.
Haha I’m not sure what to think of the silver and brown. I haven’t heard many positive comments about it yet. I do think Leica will get the polish down right, but there’s no way in hell I’ll pay the premium for identical hardware.
Checked on it – definitely Mg. Mg doesn’t have the same feel as a lot of metals (different thermally and pretty lightweight), so I guess in my excitement I wasn’t paying attention and made a bad assumption.
Can’t wait to have one to play with for a while!
Are you saying that mathematically it is not possible? the RX100m3 is a F2.8 with same focal range – and quite a bit smaller – I am assuming the LX100 is about the size of the GX1 – which to me is a very nice size –
Has anyone done the math to see if that size body can support a F1.7-2.8 24-75mm ? I would love to see a M43 sensor – but as Panasonic just used a 1 inch Sony sensor in their FZ1000 I suspect that the 1 in their names might stand for 1 inch sensor 🙂
If it is just a 1 inch sensor and quite a bit larger then the RX100m3 and same focal range but a bit brighter lens then it is not much of a marvel –
But Panasonic made a marvel in the GM1 – So I hope the LX100 has an M43 sensor – I hope Panasonic is not being lazy as Fuji like in the X30 – but actually really coming out with something that can really challenge Sony – Sony is truly working hard on innovation – I think however that Panasonic has done much better in their menu system and dials and controls and of course their awesome Touch LCD – Olympus as also done well in that aspect – Sony is trying to catch up in their menu systems – but still no Touch LCD in their higher end models
Not saying it isn’t possible, just that it will be very impressive, and I believe, unprecedented. The RX100 has a small lens, but covers a smaller sensor. I own the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 which is small compared to FF lenses, but by no means comparable to RX100’s compact size. The benefits of the fixed lens can shine here.
True in the case of the 12-35 which I also have – but I also have few of the kit lenses 14-42 from Oly and Panasonic – which are much larger then the small kit lens on the GM1 – with very similar specs but how much smaller it is and fits perfect on the GM1 so I am thinking if they where able to do that then could they not make the 12-35 quite a bit smaller ? but a good point you had – of course some of the width of the Panasonic 12-35 F2.8 has to do with the IS – and motor etc – in a body with IBIS and fixed lens the motor is not in the lens and the no IS in the lens so therefore could be narrower – take for example the Panasonic 20mm F1.7 vs the Olympus 45mm F1.8 that Oly has a very narrow barrel – as no IS there an no zoom motor –
Just hope it is M43 – as it would beat the Sony RX100m3 and even the Canon GX1 or at least be close to the GX1 in IQ but certainly will beat it in everything else 🙂 as the only thing going for the GX1 as a fixed lens camera is the IQ 🙂
It’s hard to beat the G1X, especially at “everything else”. It’s still a little sluggish and it does not support the radio flash trigger, but UI and IQ are tops. Great lens, great sensor (yes, great, whatever DXO will say), everything is where it should be.
Based on the G1X MKII and the RX100III I think it’s very likely that
the specs are right, even more because it’s different to work with a
fixed lens and a lens for an ILC, you can manage to make it smaller.
Width and Height wise it should be pretty good, I just wonder about the thickness that was leaked, is it with the camera on or off? It looks like the camera turned off, so it won’t be as pocketable as the RX100, not that I care about it. I would rather have a better camera even if it’s slightly bigger.
MSP: how do you like the Ricoh colours? My GXR was OK but always a little bland, no matter what profile I put into Lightroom. The newer 16MP unit was blander than the older 12MP one, and it flared. It did great in DXO tests but it never convinced me in real life usage. Is the GR OK?
I find RAW files colors a little bit too saturated, but overall pleasant and in LR it’s easy to change it and then change some slides to achieve the wanted look.
I just used it as a “back up” camera for an assignment at Venice Film Festival and I’m happy with it.
Honestly I have never tried to achieve a “natural” look with it (except in this occasion): I love the Positive Film simulation for portraits and landscapes, and High Contrast b&w filter for that Daido Moryiama look I give to some of my street shots (I have no Flickr account for the Ricoh, just an Instagram one, for fun).
I haven’t tried the GRX, I was tempted but it got discontinued and I doubt we’ll see a new version of it..
What surprises me is the huge amount of details this little camera and its lens can capture.
Is it my imagination (I haven’t done any scientific testing) or does the GR seems to have a lot of dynamic range? Maybe that’s what @JF is calling flat? The RicohGR seems to have noticeably more DR than any of my M43 cameras (EM1, EP5, G5) — the sensor being slightly larger may be the reason, or maybe just how it exposes.
I noticed that: its DR is way better. The camera tends to overexpose a little bit, so I usually underexpose and recover some shadow in LR.
I went out for a walk near a lake today, my Em1, Nocticron, 60mm, 12mm and PL25mm remained in the bag. It speaks a lot about this tiny camera. 🙂
If there would be a 50mm converter….
Looks promising, but I bet this will (like the FZ1000) neither have a headphone socket, nor good manual focussing or an (click-less) aperture ring, ergo all essential features for videographers. At least not if it’s price is supposed to be rather low. So what do I need 4k then?
You’re right, you shouldn’t buy it. Maybe next year they’ll have all the features you need for a camera to operate. Keep waiting to shoot your masterpiece until then.
These are all minor things that would make the camera far more useful for videographers.
GO BUY A CAMCORDER!!!!
No. We do not want a camcorder and their teeny tiny garbage cell phone sized sensors.
So based on the multi-aspect sensor, we should get around 22mm equivalent with the 16:9 aspect.
Thanks. What is the crop factor you use to get that and how much do we lose at the long end?
In 16:9 you will loose as similar percentage at the long end.
This is going to start a new arms race.
So, is this the sensor I expected for the GH4? The only slight let down was the GH4 – and the GH3 for what is worth – not having a multi-aspect sensor like the GH1 and GH2. Not just that but the GH4 brought and even bigger crop for 4K footages. I’ve to say, this is really, really looking good. It should be smaller than the G1XII, it has a smaller sensor and less focal length reach, but I liked that they kept a pretty good aperture and although 75mm is not 85mm or 90mm, it’s pretty good range. I’m really looking forward.
Anyone know what the equivalent focal length would be in 16 x 9?
Approximately 22-65mm
It won’t be like that, it’s a 4/3 sensor turned into a multi-aspect for this camera exclusively, so it won’t be the same GH1 and GH2’s 1.86x crop factor.
This really sounds too good to be true.
No, I got it! It’s not a multi-aspect 4/3 sensor!
It’s the normal 4/3 sensor with a little bit of crop so it could become a multi-aspect sensor in this camera! This camera will already have the same GH4’s 2.2x crop.
By PhotoRumors, the lens is 10.9–34mm f/1.7–2.8 ASPH lens (24-75mm equivalent). So it’s not a new multi-aspect sensor, but the old one turned into multi-aspect. This made the lens slightly smaller but the extra crop is kind of neglectable.
So it could be 43sensor with 4:3 aspect that you can crop for 1:1 and than you have 2.2crop?
what do you mean by cropping 1:1? You mean square format or 1:1 to 4/3 sensor? If you mean for 4/3 sensor, it won’t have the same crop as a normal 4/3 because the lens seems to be constructed for the crop, therefore it’s smaller than 4/3 sensor so it’s not possible to work as a normal 4/3 sensor 2x crop, only in 2.2x crop.
Are you saying a 2.2 crop in 4k, like with the GH4, but only a 2x crop in 1080 and stills? The same sensor as the GH4 would make sense. So 22-68mm in stills mode.
No, I think it’s a 2.2x crop across all aspect-ratios and in both 4K AND 1080p, because if it’s really 24mm equivalent, the lens was made for the 2.2x and it wouldn’t work with bigger imaging circle than that.
It makes sense. It’s probably something like the G1X mk2, with a slightly smaller sensor and a slightly brighter lens => roughly the same size. Then the lens does not rack out so much, so it gets a little smaller in the end. A very interesting camera, to be sure.
Is it implausible that this camera should combine a multi aspect 4/3 sensor with ibis?
It’s plausible because the FZ1000 has the hybrid IS, BUT with the heat issue, it may not be possible. having a bit of crop allows you to work with IBIS but maybe only in 1080p? I don’t know.
The 16 MP sensor should provide plenty of a crop for 4K at a 1 to 1 pixel level for IBIS, but I think the heat issue will be the limiting factor.
Definitely stabilized, and it works beautifully. One of the many impressive features when I got my hands on it.
it’s stabilized, which can be OIS, but does it have IBIS and the Hybrid IS from FZ1000?
You’re right. I believe it’s IBIS, but I’m not 100%.
The spec sounds great ! A nice competitor for the sony RX100iii
Thickness: 61 mm vs (rx100m3’s) 41 mm.
Suggests 4/3″ sensor inside instead of 1″
>Built-in EVF: 2.8 megapixel with 1.39x / 0.7x magnification
EVF with zoom? 🙂
Most exciting camera at Photokina? The Samsung NX1 also sounds VERY interesting. The Canon 7D Mk ii sounds boring. At some point Canon’s conservatism is gonna have to bite them in the rear.
Agreed! This camera, the GM5 and the Samsung sound like the most exciting releases of the show. Leica is rumored to have a compact camera that is NOT based on an existing Panasonic coming too. That could win some hearts, if not wallets.
How can a camera be boring? It’s all about the pictures you take. The camera is just the tool you use to take them. Do you also complain about hammers, scissors and frying pans being boring?
I’m sure we’ll see lots of exciting pictures (and boring ones too) being produced by the 7D2.
I think he’s referring to the lack of innovative features/steps forward of CaNikons.
Yes, but do we need more innovative features? Those CaNikons surely let us control the fundamental photographic parameters. Composition, exposure and focus. I don’t need more features to take photos today than I did 10 years ago.
Following this we could consider ABS on cars useless, and also cars, if we own a horse or a bicycle and are happy with that. 🙂
We’re seeing a lot of things from other Companies, from lenses to new bodies with new sensors, from little things as Panasonic GM5 to Pentax Medium Format cameras, from Sony QX system, curved sensor, silly selfie camera, Samsung new top line camera and so on.
I’m not saying that CaNikon line sucks, I’m just saying that there’s nothing new and I’m not impressed.
I don’t want a mirror flapping inside a huge camera, and I doubt CaNikon is going to release something interesting to me.
I also know that many people use them at their best and do not trust mirrorless cameras yet, but this perception is slowly changing.
Only time will tell, but I think C&N are somehow stucked with their DSLRs and don’t know how to move from them (or in a parallel way) without loosing some (a lot of) money..
you never knew you needed a smart phone until you saw one.
I still don’t need a smart phone. I have one, but basically do the same things I used to do with my old phone, i.e. making calls and sending text messages.
Roger Cicala’s post about that was funny (and largely true), but not really a perfect analogy. If you don’t care about the machine, only the image, that’s great. But there’s considerable evidence to suggest that design and ux impact not only purchasing decisions and perceived value, but also lead to more passionate use and better end results. I’m no craftsman, but I bet a master could make great things with any tool, but would prefer a good one. Obvious (subjective) examples of exciting machines that inspire more than their boring counterparts:
Anything Braun
Anything Dyson
Anything Apple
Anything Mercedes
Anything Eames
Anything Leica
Yes, good design and ergonomics is always preferable, but I don’t think that is what people mean when they talk about innovative features in cameras.
The CaNikon DSLRs are excellent photographic tools, and I can’t think of anything they lack, that would improve my photographic experience.
They’re mature products, for sure. And have excellent ergonomics, physical controls and UI.
Until recently, I’d give them the VF edge, but having a high quality EVF has had great benefit to me, as has the size of M43 and the shooting angles afforded by articulating screens with usable live view. 🙂
Just to smile upon it:
http://newcameranews.com/2014/09/03/leaked-nikon-promises-photokina-surprise/
🙂 for par condicio: the previous post on that site was about Olympus
24-75mm …is that real focal lengths or 35mm equivalent?
I guess real lengths if it’s compact and goes down to f1.7 though I’d prefer it in equivalent length 🙂
It’s the equivalent.
so it has a 12-37mm f1.7-2.8 lens? that would be awesome considering the existing Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 ‘x’ lens… where is this info?
The sensor has a slight crop like the GH4’s 4K crop, so it’s actually 10.9-34mm I believe.
that would be awesome! …forgive me for being skeptical though, in light of the size and cost of other lenses that actually exist I think the numbers must be real focal length
I doubt they’d have a camera starting at a little over 50mm with no wide angle. If it was real focal length it would be the equivalent of 52mm-165mm. And 165mm at f2.8? The lens would be enormous.
Nope, it’s 24-75mm equivalent. I have used the camera (though you have little reason to believe this haha).
It’s always the equivalent FL with compact cameras. The real FL is stated on the lens, but the specs and marketing materials always state the equivalent FL.
Yeah, but being similar to that lens, it makes me wonder about the price of such combo in a single camera, how much will this camera cost?
exactly, it has better specs than their flagship lens… I’d sure like to get a standalone version of this lens!
Sometime ago a 43Rumors source replied to my comment saying that the price will be about right in his opinion but he also said that some people wouldn’t agree. But people not agreeing on the Internet is pretty normal, people are kind of delusional with their demands. I posted what I thought would be fair but he didn’t reply back. I hope it’s below $1000 but now, knowing the specs of camera and lens, I don’t really know if Panasonic will be able to fulfill it. At the same time, if they can’t price it below $1000, it will take a lot of the camera’s appeal. It should be a camera to compete with the RX100 – and a bit of the G1X – and as such, it wouldn’t make sense to sell it above $1000. People already find the RX100 kind of expensive, above $1000 would be just ludicrous. Who knows, but until next week we will know.
But how will they be able to justify the price of the 12-35mm f2.8, which sells for $1,000, if the lens on this camera is faster and the camera sells for less than $1,000. But I agree with you, I don’t see them selling too many of these if the price is over $1,000. If they price it at $799 it will sell like hotcakes.
maybe Leica design/aproval is included which can skyrocket it past the 1000 barrier….behold, the Erecticron!
Yeah but Panasonic is no Leica, they can’t go past that figure as they were and then expect to sell well. I don’t really know if I would pay more than $1000 or even how much more can it cost so I’m really not buying. Panasonic was pretty aggressive with the pricing with the FZ1000, hopefully they pull that off again.
better wait untill we see how the actual impression/quality is.
just wait for comparison lol
Whats the advantage of multiaspect? Is it what Kestzio asked? Portrait mode without rotating?
A multiaspect sensor means that even as you switch between the different aspect ratios (say, 4:3, 3:2, 16:19, etc), your diagonal angle of view stays constant, and the resolution – nearly constant.
For example, if you’re shooting a large group of people and your back is to the wall, switching to 16:19 gets you an extra couple mm of wide-angle coverage, so you could get everybody into the frame.
You can change aspect ratio without getting a different angle of view.
Actually it’s just the opposite – the angle of view changes with the aspect ratio. 1.86x crop @ 16:9 and 2.0x crop @ 4:3. The benefit is the ability to maintain the highest possible resolution for a given aspect ratio.
http://default.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11134%7C000001b58%7Ceb8b_Panasonic-DMC-GH2-sensor.jpg
as GH2 shooter I can testify. file size for 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 are practically identical, whereas it wasn’t the case with my former G1.
It is a cool feature, make no mistake, as there hardly is any apparent trade off.. Would have been a big deal back in the days of the 3 megapix sensors. Now its …nice to know.
I’m talking about the diagonal angle of view. With most cameras, you change the diagonal angle of view when you change the aspect ratio. With a true multi-aspect ratio sensor, the diagonal angle of view doesn’t change, since the diagonal is always the diameter of the circumscribed circle.
The main benefit is the ability to get a wider angle of view along the longer dimension of the image (while the *diagonal* AOV stays the same).
A loss or gain of 5-10% of resolution is invisible to a naked eye and is nearly undetectable by test beds.
On the other hand, an additional 2mm of wide angle coverage can be a very big deal. A 22mm lens is *much* wider than a 24mm.
So the size of this sensor is bigger than a normal micro4/3 sensor?
NO, it’s the same GH4 sensor used as a multi-aspect ratio sensor, in other words, they will crop it to use as a multi-aspect sensor, that’s why the lens specs say 10.9-34mm and not 12-37.5mm. Panasonic doens’t have a 4/3 multi aspect ratio sensor anymore, if they had, they would had used in the GH4.
maybe good for the next ibis generation which rotates the sensor plus a rotating evf….for the lazy ones. but cool idea.
If Panasonic can pull of a M43 sensor and a 24-75mm F1.7-2.8 – of course with IS – in a body that is a bit larger then the Sony RX100m3 or about the size of the Panasonic GX1 then I think that is great.
I find it quite interesting though that people are wanting it to be a major video machine with 4k with all the extras – I see the LX100 more of a competition to the very popular Sony RX100m3 – yes it would be nice if it had mic and headphone input etc etc – but the GH4 is the real video machine – and of course one expects the video folks to want a interchangeable camera not a fixed lens camera – I would say a hot shoe or a port for a wireless mic might be nice for some bloggers in selfie mode for better audio – the GX7 has good video but some limitations like no mic etc – as Panasonic is not wanting to give users everything at lower price point –
I find it quite odd when consumers want camera companies to give them LESS. You’re the consumer. You should want as much as possible from Panasonic in this camera.
I don’t think it’s about wanting less, but more like to be realistic about line ups. I don’t think he wants less, heck if I could I would want a camera that could teletransport me, but more like although Panasonic can make this a great video machine, he finds it unlikely.
I still think that the LX100 may get some greats video specs but I’m curious about the ND filter and the mic/headphone input. This camera may not come with the cinema mode as well. 4K seems enough to differentiate with the RX100 but I can still see Panasonic going all out with it.
So I find both possibilities plausible, I think it won’t come with all the GH4’s stuff and that’s not a deal breaker for me – but I sure hope it does come with everything. More importantly, what will the price be, that’s the biggest question for me now.
I want it to have FF sensor a 10-300mm F1.2-2.8 lens ultra small and have 4k with all the features for $200 🙂 Of course I want all the features – I was speaking realistically – the manufacturers are in it for the money and of course have high R&D costs etc – they also take into account that often many features like a mic input is only used by a very small percentage so they have to weigh in weather it makes sense to include all the features for higher manufactures cost –
There’s a difference between wanting something as simple as a mic and headphone jack and what you’ve described- the cost to Panasonic would be huge for what you’re asking for, not so with a mic/headphone jack. What usually this comes down to is whether or not the person shoots video. Those who aren’t serious about video always bemoan those who ask for more video features, even things that could be implemented cheaply, and tend to take pleasure in video functionality being crippled. I doubt mic and headphone jacks would add more than 50 cents to the construction cost of the camera. Such minor things that add so much to the usefulness of the camera. This is definitely going to be an expensive camera. Things like a mic and headphone jack can make the difference between a purchase or not for some consumers.
A mic jack is not necessary a big cost item as some other things but it can also be a big issue when you are cramming so much into such a very small body – just imagine the GM1 – so a mic input and a headphone jack for a very small percentage of users might not be practical – Of course I would love to see a Hot Shoe mic input and a headphone input etc – but if I am going for serious video work then I would opt for the GH4 that has all of that – we are discussing the LX100 – basically a point and shoot – although a premium one –
damn the bloggers who want do videoselfies of them in 4k, but you might be right Jón
Might be nice for a video street-shooter. I have the GH4 and am looking at this camera as an excellent 2nd video cam, street-camera, family camera and vacation camera etc.
If the LX100 is as useful as it seems, It might be worth the extra money compared to similar cameras including the X100s and the Sony RX100 type 3.
What kind of price are we talking about with this camera?
Would have liked a somewhat smaller camera without an evf and without a hotshoe. Just max iq in a small package without all the extras I seldom use. And maybe a little higher resulution, above 20 MP.
just buy a sony then
According to latest rumors, the upcoming Canon g7 x may be the perfect choice for me!! 1 inch sensor and a 24-100 1,8-2,8 lens. All in a small package without the size enlarging extras I don’t need (evf, hot shoe, etc).
More megapixels means poor and muddy images 😉
Multiaspect is holy grail for video full readout 😉
Yep, that’s why I’ve gone back to a 12MP MFT body for all my base ISO shooting. So much more detail!
((((square sensor))))
wow! can we hope for a pancake version of the zoom for the GM2?
Adimin, I hope that everything, you said in the recent time, is true and that the lens is not a bottle bottom wide open (compare GX1MkII). If the price is then below 1000$, I am all in! 😀
Have you tested the G1X? I am interested…
No, I haven’t didn’t like the handling while I was in a shop. But I was referring (and exaggerating) towards the review of the G1XMkII at imaging-resource. The lens wide open is quite soft. I didn’t like the wide open pictures.
What does 4/3 mean here ? Four thirds is an aspect ratio, not a sensor size… It could perfectly be a 1 inch 4/3 sensor, right ?
Go to sleep man…
it’s not a 1″ if the lens specs are right.
4/3″ is a sensor size, and 4:3 is an aspect ratio.
The 4/3 and m4/3 systems are so called because they use the sensor size 4/3″. They are not named after the aspect ratio 4:3. It’s a common misunderstanding, it seems.
Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds are standards that encompass a number of issues including basic image sensor size, and actually are not limited to 4:3 image aspect. This camera apparently borrows a same or similar (maybe custom) sensor, but it is not a Four Thirds or Micro Four Thirds camera as it cannot interchange lenses.
So the description is that it reportedly has a Four Thirds size sensor; this means it is considerably larger than a so-called 1″ sensor.
News are hots for the LX100, can’t wait for nexts days about the GM5 🙂
I feel sorry for the RX100 M3…it’s days ahead are going to be challenging. 🙁
Sony will drop the price probably, just like they did with the RX10. Except that that the RX10 was overpriced to begin with, while the RX100III is not really, so, will they?
Why? It’s nice of you to feel sorry though, you remind me of a very sweet chimp.
And the EVF seem be nice also, 2.8mp. is it EVF tiltable like GX7? 🙂
282 comments in just a few hours (Admin: what’s the record?)
and only 15% say “not interested.”
Panasonic may have a ***BIG*** hit with this one.
It will all come down to price basically.
I’d guess, in U.S. dollars:
$899 – unlikely, but a homerun if the specs are true
$999 – more likely, and still competitive, if the specs are true. The “magic number”
$1299 – if Panasonic want to make a branding statement like the Nocticron, and if it contains everything that is leaked here and more, like the organic sensor, weather sealing, awesome materials and build quality, Leica looks
My guess is that it will cost US$999 and it will omit a few things, as @disqus_Dh1OMm0bK9:disqus suggests below.
Certainly, the organic is a real long shot and a price much above and beyond $1K would require some really special user experience, handling and build quality.
Or they could not deliver everything, try to charge US$1200, and blow it with crummy buttons and dials, like the GM1. That would alienate people fast, it wouldn’t sell, and I’d pick it up in 6 months or a year for $599. Nah! I have faith. This camera is going to rock (but not so much that we won’t want to replace it next year!) 🙂
Frankly, all it needs to do to fetch US$1299. is to be a competitor to the Fuji X100s, which it should be.
Predictions on the Panasonic LX100 vs Fuji X100T world middleweight championship fight:
Lens/focal length: usefulness: Panny wins
Body size: Panny wins
Lens: size: Fuji wins
Lens sharpness wide open: TBD, but I’d bet on Panny
Viewfinder: Fuji wins with the innovative hybrid
LCD: Panny wins if it has touch and or tilt
Controls and handling: Fuji
Style: Fuji
IQ at high ISO: Fuji
IQ at low ISO (under 1200): draw
Focus speed: Panny
Burst rate: Panny
Write to card: Panny
Out of camera JPGs: Fuji
File size and handling: Panny
Viral marketing, internet buzz/endorsements, brand perception: Fuji
Reliability, lack of bugs and quirks at launch: Panny
Video: Panny
Accessory support: Fuji (they have a big head start)
Build quality: draw — both will be good
Availability: Panny
WiFi app support: draw
Filter modes: Fuji wins with classier film sims
Resale value: Fuji
Price: this is where Panny needs to hit that $999 mark if they want a decisive “win.” Otherwise, it could go either way on points. 🙂
Agreed with everything but lens sharpness. The Fuji has the advantage on paper as it is a prime lens vs. the Panny’s zoom.
Indeed, but it’s not very sharp wide open.
Yes, but the X100 is knocked for sharpness wide open. Well, not knocked. But that’s one of the few place it underwhelms
I am wondering how you concluded that the “style” goes to Fuji X100s. I completely agree that Fuji’s styling of the X100s is very cool but has anyone actually seen the LX100 yet? I haven’t seen a photo of the LX100 but I agree with admin that I hope it has some of the design cues from the LC-1
If you have seen one, please post a link to it. I’m excited about this one. Just seems like the camera I have been looking for since the early 1970s. I don’t like changing lenses.
🙂 Just force of habit. Fuji has yet to design an ugly X series camera. Even the X compacts are nice. But Panasonic and Leica collaborated on the LC1 (a beauty), and I think that both the GM1 and GX7 are beautiful cameras. If Panasonic use some of that Leica DNA, I’d be thrilled.
But to be honest, I think that (FOR MY PERSONAL TASTE), the best anyone trying to compete with the X100 on style can achieve is a draw. 😉
Not that you were intentionally saying this, but I did not suggest any price point including $999. I said that certain things are omitted. I’m reserving comment on pricing, but I was pleased.
These are my own price predictions — I’m not attributing them. We have never spoken. But would be happy to know your definition of “pleased!” 🙂
I understood what you meant, but just wanted to clarify because it could have been read differently. 🙂
Sorry, you’ll have to wait a few days for price. I’ll talk about existing leaks, but won’t be the source of new ones.
Good policy
Leica lens branding? That seems to be the only way we get an aperture ring? 🙂
Not all the Leica branded lenses have an aperture ring though!
Yes, but didn’t we read elsewhere that this lens would have an aperture ring? Did your trial camera? 😉
I split the two thoughts to clarify it so it doesn’t imply that you were speculating on price (only me). 🙂
I agree with the $899 and $999 pricing, if they can get anywhere below that, Sony will have to make another serious price drop.
For $1299 I don’t think it would have organic sensor, it won’t really, it will be reserved for flagship models and it should arrive in 2015 at earliest and even that estimation is optimistic.
And I think $1299 is too high, I would go a little below that. Things I think would realistically turn this into a $1199 camera would be weather sealing, same video specs as the GH4 at least, built-in ND, great optical quality, hybrid IS or Oly-like IBIS, swivel screen, great build quality and enough controls.
You got that one right. Talk about a HUGE hit.
Sure, untill we know its going to sell for about for about 1.500$ or what do you expected ?
Ohhh you also have to consider than in two years you are sending to the trash not only the cam , but the lenses also. Really exciting!!!!!
Yes, that’s the risk. In two years, the whole thing becomes very old tech, if there’s a big sensor advancement. But that might not happen. Even if it does, it doesn’t mean this camera would be any less capable of helping you make great images. Two years seems a reasonable amount of time to want to upgrade. Three or four to feel a strong “need” to upgrade. But honestly, most cameras are probably good enough right now to be perfectly serviceable for a decade, IQ wise. But only if you don’t look at websites like this one! 😉
Exactly, when I get my next camera (if it is a fixed lens), then all of these sites “die” for me, because they are meant to help to make your decision. When I have done it, I want to use that “decision” and make photos! 😀
And since I am financially not capable or better not willing to upgrade every two years, why should come to see what is new. 😉
I am so excited for this camera, it is impossible! Oo
Won’t be $1500. Not close.
All relative to value perception, as usual. A new car loses more than $1500 in value the moment you drive it off the lot. A few restaurant dinners add up to the price of a good camera and turn into – well you know what – within hours. So why focus on the depreciation cost of a camera that brings you enjoyment for a couple of years, fuels creativity and facilitates irreplaceable sharing of memories?
And my guess is < $1k.
Panny 12-35 costs $1k alone, and it’s slower and non-collapsible lens. I think the LX100 will be about $1500
I don’t see sensor quality improving that much in the next couple of years (organic will have its own compromises). Any change to the lens will require some type of compromise as optic design is changing very slowly. The only things that might improve are video and AF.
If the LX100 is using DFD for continuous AF then that is likely good enough for general use as this camera would not be used for sports or wildlife.
If they can reduce the amount of heat coming from the sensor then they could expand 4k for longer periods and offer other new video enhancements and better compressions. The lens will likely have OIS so IBIS is not as critical.
I think we are fast approaching the point where companies are finding it more difficult to significantly move the bar with camera development. That is why we are seeing them move into new areas (ie. large sensor compact) and upgrades like the E-PL7 are not getting the traction they used to get.
There is nothing that actually points to a slowing down process in sensor tech development, it’ pretty much the contrary. Samsung seems to be using their own tech, Sony managed to make a BSI 1″ sensor recently, Panasonic caught up with Sony, all things points for more improvements, not otherwise. Organic sensor should debut in the next couple of years, that’s enough for improvement.
340 comments now @ 6:40p EST. That must be close to a record, (although) the full-frame trolls have been VERY busy here today. Still looks to be a BIG Hit!
Stay on it. I believe you are right. The weather proofing seems dubious.
Weather sealing and 4K video heat dissipation might be at odds. And Panny seems not to do weather sealing, except in the GH. Frankly, I’d rather have real weather sealing than 4K in this camera.
Whereas the camera promises to be good, the market for large expensive compacts is small.
If this becomes reality as described (whatever the price) it will make quite a lot of cameras (4/3 as well as APS-C) obsolete.
If you have this LX100 (and an Apple 6 Plus with OIS as a Point-n-Shoot) I can’t imagine people will ever long for anything else IQ wise. For birding or sports, yes, but this cam was not designed for that anyway.
Such a fast zoom lens on an m43 sensor ?! Quite unbelievable really !
Agree – but for me, substitute Galaxy Note 4 for iPhone 6+. Get auto photo exchange set up, and the big phone is best for quick showing of the photos from the camera.
Agreed for me personally too and BTW I have a Galaxy Note (1), but the US crowd here would prefer (IMHO) Apple, that’s why I used that device as an example. Dunno for sure about the new Note 4 but my (unscientific) guess (according to specs I saw) would be the Apple 6+ might be the better deal … camera-wise (???).
Looks very promising! Comparing it to Sony RX100 line, I would say that it’s not a direct competitor but it will vie for many of the same potential customers. Size advantage still to Sony, but everything else will be more satisfying with LX100.
For me it will “compete” against my GX7; I.e. do I carry the GX7 with a bigger zoom and a couple of other lenses in its little bag, or just take this in a belt pouch? I think the GX7 will lose unless i know i need very wide or moderately long reacg.
For years (before digital) I used a Leica CL with the 40 and 90 kit; this may be finally the real replacement for that, and easier to carry.
This will likely send my EP5 into backup mode
I don’t think the LX100 has a direct competitor, RX100 or GX7. Really in a class of its own.
I was set on the RX100 M3, but kind of view it like a Canon S120 LOL as the LX100 is the camera! Any other compact has a smaller sensor or is too bulky and heavy.
The LX100 would be my one and only camera for day to day or travel. Forget lugging around a DSLR.
retail presence? they ‘panasonic cameras’ have ZERO retail presence here in china at all. Theres a market like mall strip, must have easy 2000-3000 camera stores in that street.. not one single store carries ANY Panasonic retail presence at all. nada. nothing .. it’s all canon, sony, nikon.. and one olly shop. no panasonic at all.. closest 4 stores i’m told carry panasonic cameras are 20k’s away and single stores.. they will never get a toe in on china’s market if they don’t open up their wholesalers and get some boxes moving here..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! WTF?!?
HAHAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!!
Panasonic is really grasping at straws now. It reeks of desperation. OMG!
Who would buy this when there are so many better alternatives? Sony RX100 series, Canon G1 X MkII and G16, Nikon P7800, Olympus XZ-2 and Stylus 1, Panasonic LX7, Fuji X20, Samsung EX2F, Pentax MX-1, Casio EX10 and EX100, Leica X Vario. They are all better cameras in the zoom enthusiast compact category. None of them have a 4/3 sensor, which is the worst sensor size of them all, at least if you care about image quality.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
/facepalm
Quit drinking before it’s too late!
Too funny, At first I thought you were serious LOL
It’s funny the irony because you are the one that looks desperate with all those caps in your desperate laugh. LOL.
Desperate for attention.
Why would it be the worst camera of all those you mention? how can m43 be worst than a 1 inch sensor? Your wasting some valuable time of your life with this nonsense… your name suits you well… RIDICOULOUS
Done Deal. Pany is on a roll. The LX100 will be a nice companion to my GX7. Take my money, Panasonic.
Nobody mentioned image quality or lens quality yet. That seems the only reservation to a HUGE hit.
We already have a pretty good idea on IQ based on recent Panasonic sensors. But you are correct that the lens quality is still unknown.
But the pattern seems to be that the recent Panny lenses have been quite good: 42.5, 15 and the tiny GM1 zoom. Has there been anything less than very good to excellent?
Not to mention the LX7’s excellent lens. The LF1 was a bit of a disappointment, but it tried to do too much with too little space, probably.
Even the wildly ambitious FZ1000 has a very good lens.
Indeed. How nice for Panasonic that so many of us just take it for granted that the IQ and lens will be excellent. Good progress for their brand perception. And well earned.
Yep. Even the 14-42mm II, 45-150mm and 14-140mm II are very good for being essentially kit lenses.
I’m waiting (patiently, with no point and shoot after breaking my RX100 1) for the LX8… If this is the LX7 successor, I’ll be getting an RX100iii. A brighter lens would be nice, but I don’t want to lose pocketablility for 1 stop. There were talks of a weather sealed LX8. I would order that the moment it goes on preorder. Worst case, this will make the RX100iii come down in price a bit.
If video is not such a selling point for you and you don’t want to sacrifice size, maybe the RX100III is really the way to go. Because as rumors has been surfacing, this really is the LX7’s successor and it wouldn’t make sense to have this one and another camera with 1″ at the same time, so I really think they dropped the rumored LX8. Besides video this should be able to get a bit more of lack of DOP and possibly more controls than a RX100.
Think you’ve got me confused with someone else… I’m a photographer. I’ve done one “video video”… shot it with my old LX5 and trust me, you wouldn’t assume it was shot with such a “low end” camera. It was very well received (although 9 months later I’m sure everyone would trash it because it’s not 4k 😉
Now I shoot an E-M1 with O 12-40 f2.8 and the Panny Nocticron 42.5 f1.2. My pocket camera was an LX5, but I didn’t think the LX7 was worth the upgrade $$$ so I jumped ship to Sony with the RX100-1. Smashed it across the pavement a few months ago and I’m very much missing having a little pocket rocket around. Minus IQ, I liked the LX5 better in every way. Was hoping to go back to Panasonic but I see no good reason to own an EM1 with great lenses and a slightly smaller fixed lens MFT camera… Wait and see, I guess – May the best man win!
What are you talking about? All I said is that if you don’t shoot video, you might indeed go with the RX100 because of your pocketability preference. I was actually agreeing with you, so I don’t get your reply.
haha yep, I got it about two seconds after I hit reply… I originally read it as “If video is such a selling point for you”. Cheers
Canon is also rumored to be doing a tiny 1″ sensor camera. That might be more in line with what you’re looking for, although probably not weather sealed.
True but that camera will born already compromised like every single last camera from Canon. There is so much Canon could had been improved for the G1X MKII but they chose not to because of their DSLR, this 1″ camera should compromise even more in order to not hurt the G1X MKII AND the DSLR.
Oh Canon…
So true….Canon is last to the scene as always. Don’t expect anything innovative just status quo and playing it safe…..yawn!
It seems unlikely that they’ll do anything interesting but Canon is way too big to ignore. Eventually, they’ll be forced to compete with mirrorless and have a lot of resources to apply when they do. Based on the EOSM, they don’t seem to care yet. But they will some day. Which is why Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji and Sony should be pushing as hard as they can.
Once Canon recognize mirrorless cameras and decide to invest in it, people will turn their eyes to mirrorless and unless Canon can make it right from the get go, they will simply give the spotlight to the others, then they might end up losing a lot of market share. If that happens, they will pay for not caring at this exact moment.
They can probably afford to pay. But probably can afford to pay for 500 million U2 albums, like the makers of my next camera just did. 🙂
Two words: “focus pixels”. I wish Apple would make a real camera
🙂
Really? What have they compromised?
I wonder why so many nincompoops bash the best products and praise their own junk. Wait, I have got it… LOL
Hey mr. Fanboy, looks like someone got mad for little to no reason, don’t be such a baby, ok? First, praise their own junk or be defensive about their own junk? I don’t own the LX100, I’m not even a Micro4/3 user, it just happens that the LX100 seems much better than the G1XII.
For starters, when they announced the G1XII I thought that that would be the camera I would buy, although, being Canon, I felt that it would be compromised since, well, surprise, that’s what Canon does lately! Differently from you, I have no attachment because you see, I’m no fanboy, I just want the best product for my needs. If you can’t see the compromises for the G1XII, go read some review, I can just pity you for being so blind.
So, what does the G1XII compromises? The most disappointing thing for me is video. It has no full manual control for video! Even Fuji offers that now! That’s ridiculous! And Canon has not been improving their video at all, except for their EOS-C line up, why? Battery life is poor, just a bit more than 200 shots is very low for such big and well priced camera. It has no EVF, it has slow burst fps and something that has become a Canon trademark, it’s soft. That doesn’t bother much at times, but it’s soft and it has soft video, just like any other Canon recently.
So there you go, I’m not inventing anything, does this camera have its positives? Sure it does. But I’m just saying that it could had been much better for the price and I’m not being too demanding or nothing that the competition is not offering.
Why losing one stop bothers you when the sensor is much bigger and can more than make up for it in iso and DOF???
Losing 1 stop doens’t bother him, that’s not what is written.
Electric shutter?
Could we infer from the model number LX100 that this camera is positioned as a direct competitor to RX100? If so, bravo to Panny for bringing on the competition!
No, cause the RX100 has a MUCH smaller sensor.
Speaking of lenses (below) what ever happened to the rumored Olympus 9mm f/1.8 pro prime?
Didn’t even know it was rumored, but I was just bitching about the lack of fast wide primes for this system. The only thing I’m missing… wouldn’t use it much but when I do need it, nothing else will do. That would be my next lens
I think I want one.
Seriously, has there ever been a camera this popular based on the poll results? Look at the percentage of people that are excited for this camera. I really hope this is not bs cause if Panasonic doesn’t greedy and prices this camera sensibly they might have a game changer on their hands. I know it won’t be cheap but if they price it over $1,000 I think it’ll be a tough sale. Under a grand and it’ll be flying off the shelves.
Totally agree. Over $1000 and panasonic looks like Nikon and their Nikon 1 marketing plan!
I hope macro performance is good!… if its the case i might go for this one instead of em10 or gm5.
Hope it has an external mic jack! I want to see how it compares to the RX 100. I think this is not a competitor to the GX 7 rather in the pocketable class like the RX 100
I am wondering how are they going to pull it off. MILC like the EPL6, EPM2, etc is going off at pretty low prices. If this LX100 is going off at 1k+… many would rather get the EPM2 or GF6. I know I will.
Am i the only one who thinks the sensor wont be a 43rds sensor? Lookign at it. Why would Panasonic release a reasonably priced fixed lens camera that in operation would be the equivalent of a GX7 and a 12-35/2.8 lens (even better at 1.7). Does not make sense to me.So im calling this out as a smaller sensor – maybe a 1inch sized sensor.
YES!
yes
YES!
Is there someone else there with you forcing those excited exclamations…..or are you answering other questions? 😉
I have a similar doubt – sounds too good to be true, IF the small form factor is true. Sure, a non-interchangeable lens can make the assembly more compact, but I’m not sure if that is enough to change a lens that is even brighter than the 12-35X into a large point and shoot form factor. The other possibility is that its quite a bigger size than what all of us are imagining from the above comparison image. I would like to be wrong on this tho, and hope that Panasonic has made a camera so great that its unbelievable.
What will you say when it will be officially confirmed it has 4/3″ sensor?
I don’t know. Do you want me to call you? Just leave your number in a reply.
It’s a 4/3 sensor cropped to act as a multi-aspect sensor, the lens specs shows the exact same crop as the 4K video in the GH4 and the specs don’t fit a 1″ sensor, it’s 2.2x crop with a 10.9-34mm f/1.7-2.8 ASPH, 24-75mm equivalent. And you can’t take the specs serious enough to dismiss a 4/3 sensor for some logical reason and not take it serious enough to understand its crop, so you either dismiss all the specs and think it’s a 1″ or you don’t use it as an argument, otherwise, your point doesn’t make sense, it’s just a fallacy.
So you went off on a rant about equivalence and crops but didn’t answer my initial question.
It seems strange to me, that Panasonic would create a product that takes the place of 2 of their other products and sell it at around half of those 2 products.
At the end of the day it matter not really, neither the GX7, the 12-35mm nor this cam is on my shopping list.
No info on pricing yet, so all your “strange to me” is just a fantasy.
You really are taking this all a bit too seriously. It’s a camera and there will be many more after this one is released. have fun and enjoy this, but use your passion for something more worthwhile.
LOL too easy.
I just went to say that if you use the specs from the rumor as an argument, it makes no sense to say it’s a 1″ sensor when the rumor itself says otherwise.
I don’t think you are looking at it correctly.
First, with the X100, do Fuji’s consumers stop buying their 23mm lens for the X-System? No, just because it’s the same focal length doens’t mean it’s the same thing, serving the same purpose.
Second, the RX100 is already eating part of that segment of cameras from Panasonic, so it’s much better to have consumers weighting between two of your products rather than your product and another manufacturer’s product. So, being aggressive makes sense.
Moreover, if you want a ILC, you won’t buy a fixed lens. For instance, if I want the flexibility ILC gives me, I might buy a LX100 as my second camera but that’s it, because I want ILC. It’s not like people buy tthe GX7 exclusively to pair it up with the 12-35mm. And it won’t really be half of the price, I doubt it and without any word on the price tag, taking this discussion further makes no sense. Plus, this camera won’t have the same build quality as the 12-35, which is also weather sealed, etc.
Again, people can pair up the X-E2 with a 23mm but will they really think, should I buy a X100 or a X-E2+23mm? When you choose a ILC, you don’t choose just because of a single lens, if not, you should buy a fixed lens camera.
In another words, although there is an intersection in specs, the LX100 doesn’t really take the place of the GX7 and 12-35mm. At the very best, GX7 users that want a LX100 will simply buy it AND invest in a different lens than the 12-35 in the future. I just don’t see the LX100 existence as an anomaly or something that doesn’t make sense business wise, even more because this is a product that a lot of people seem to want, if it’s really a hit, the more the reason to not think that way.
The user experience can be argued to be different between the X100 and XE1/2 cameras via their viewfinders – enough so that they can be considered to be a different class of cameras. As i said, it appears that operationally and in specs, the only difference between the new cam and the GX7/12-35 combo will be the price.
Plus the maximum aperture and the 4K video
seriously, 4k video is a non event for buyers of this level of camera. its nice but only a very few would have this feature as a deal breaker. Most computers still cannot even play a 4k vid let alone be able to process the files.
Max aperture yes there is a difference in favor over the $1000+ 12-35mm.
All I can think is that they would deliberately design the lens so as not to be as good as their zoom lenses. Panasonic are pretty good with lenses. Bad lumix lenses are few and far between – even their kit lenses are pretty good. The 20mm is my fave m43 lens.
certainly seems like there must be a fly in the ointment somewhere, 4/3 sensor and 24-75mm f/1.7-2.8 lens in a compact camera, the lens will be huge.
Can you read?
>exact camera size: 4.52″ x 2.6″ x 2.4″
“the lens will be huge”
2.4″, or 61 mm, is the camera thickness with lens when the lens is collapsed.
Why do you say this (twice)? Minimum lens diameter to get f/2.8 at the long end is only about (75mm / 2xcrop) / 2.8 = 13.4mm.
Of course a practical lens will have larger glass diameter than that, but even twice that number is a little over an inch. Add for telescoping barrel(s), also noting that AF motors etc. can be merged partly in the body unlike a separate lens. In any case not unavoidably “huge”. The main concern is the depth when collapsed; 2.4″ as reported isn’t particularly compact but also not huge.
It appears some cannot read. 🙁
The LX100’s nearest competitor seems to be the Canon G1Xii, but it also sort of competes (depending on final release price and quality) with the Sony RX100iii, the Fuji X30 and X100t, and even the Leica XVario or X2. Any others?
I was ever so eagerly anticipating for this, possibly the only competitor against the RX100
But the fact that this is 2.4 inches thick just makes it un-pocketable (for jeans/pants)
Which, i believe, means its no longer competing with the the pocketable category but the larger G1X, GM1 etc
So then, same argument against the G1X & X30 alike fixed-lens cameras, why not go for a small system then, ie GM1, EM5, X-M1?
That depends. Some people buys the RX100III because it’s pocketable, others buy it simply because it’s the best premium compact available. The former might still buy RX100, the later might buy the LX100 if it’s indeed a better camera and in that sense, they are competing against each other.
Fixed lens cameras offer a practicality that a ILC camera can’t offer, as compact as it can be, they are at their best interchanging lenses and some might simply prefer the practicality of a fixed zoom lens, even more if it doesn’t sacrifice so much in quality, aperture and focal length, since the size of a compact ILC with a compact lens is kind of the same or even bigger than the compact premium.
If you absolutely need a camera that fits in your jeans pocket you should stick to a mobile phone with a camera. Jesus Christ.
or the rx100? Jesus Christ
Is that quote from the bible?
Praise The Lord!
Answer: there is no interchangeable equivalent to the fast, relatively compact and probably quite sharp zoom (f/1.7-f/2.8). Built-in lenses and no focal-plane shutter required create a design advantage.
The RX100 series may become less significant once this LX100 hits the street and if ultimate IQ is is *truly* important to us (and of course if we want or need an ILC).
As others here claim … truly ‘pocketable’ ?: maybe iPhone 6(+) has already become a good alternative with its so many awesome features ?!.
I don’t think the iPhone 6+ camera will be as good as the Nokia 1020, which remains the logical choice if you want a phone camera combo.
Well, it all depends on the performance of that uberfast lens and the pricing of the camera. If it will cost less than 1000 Dollar and if it gets near the optical performance of the Pana 12-35 f2.8 or the Olympus 12-40 f2.8 (which I can hardly believe, given its size), it will be an absolute no-brainer to go for the LX100.
just wear different pants, moron
Interesting, which manufacturer will release cheap small 1″ camera with classic f/2.8-4.5 lens first?
pentax?
it has 1/1.7″, not cheap, and not small
Didn’t mean to say the ones they have today.
shit… do I buy this or the m.pro 12-40?!
just realized that the wide end is 50mm equiv. 12-50 would have been better.
Not. 24 = 24 equivalent.
5 days til preorder.
The LX100 has no real competition given the specs. I wouldn’t want the X30 or RX100 given the smaller sensor nor the G1X II given the poor sensor, AF problems, etc.
if this lives up to my expected 4k qual – I’ll be buying at least 3 for multicam interviews in 4k for better editing crop n zoom in frame is awesome for interviews.. I was looking at upgrading from the current rx100 I’ve been using till now with old 550d and eos-m rigs… looking good so far… crosses fingers the video is done properly !
Looks even better than yesterday.
If true, not compact enough, protrudes 6 cm. They should have approached GM1 size. This is all odd: for interchangable lenses you don t need pocket size, because the lenses will be too big. And for fixed lenses cameras should be smaller. The pocketability of the GM1 body is senseless, same applies to NEX etc. Here they probably wasted space with the EVF.
Obviously your view is of the minority not the majority.
Size wise, the LX100 is similar in size to the Oly Stylus 1, the Nikon P7800, and the G1X II. That’s fairly portable in a small bag with a couple of filters and a spare battery.
I’ve long wondered why Olympus or Panasonic didn’t make a camera like this, since the 4/3 sensor is significantly smaller than the APS-C and is of high quality. There’s a lot of activity now in FLC’s (Fixed Lens Cameras) with larger sensors, and I see this as another entry in this class from Panasonic. The FZ1000 seems to be a success, and if this one does well, I think you’ll see more from them. I also think you’ll see more of this class from other players.
Looking at sensors, Canon’s 1.5″ is just a little larger than 4/3, so that probably sets a practical upper limit for sensor size in zoom lens cameras. 1″ probably represents the lower limit for this class; but it allows longer zooms in a reasonable size and weight. That pretty well relegates 1/2.3″, 1/1.7″, and 2/3″ sensors to a different class in terms of camera sizes and cost; but also in terms of long focal lengths. I doubt you’ll see a 1200 mm zoom with a 4/3 sensor. (LOL!)
We currently are in an era where smaller and more convenient is better. Smartphones are replacing tablets, PDAs and pocketable cameras. Consumer level DSLR’s are getting smaller, and people really don’t buy extra lenses. Sales of lenses are only 50% higher than sales of cameras, an average of 1.5 lenses per body. Consumers (not enthusiasts and professionals) buy DSLRs and mirrorless for the idea of better images; not for the benefit of interchangeable lenses. Large sensor fixed lens cameras fit that market very well and are more convenient. The lens speed of the LX100 puts it in a great position to take sales from ILCs, and I’d argue that it’s a much better solution than an ILC with a slow kit lens.
Jerry
Gerald W, the LX100 is similar in size to the G1X II???
Check again, I don’t think so. The G1X II is significantly larger and heavier than the LX100.
The FZ1000 has been successful as it has been a very unique camera in its class, just like LX100.
The LX100 offers the best combination of overall size, lens speed, sensor size, etc. As of now, it has no competition.