So what’s next with Panasonic?
1) A trusted source told me Panasonic is focusing on the GH an GM line evaluation. And while they have many different prototypes in their labs the “GF” and “G” line are “on hold”.
2) Another source also told me the new “Panasonic GM” line sales have not reached their targets. While the GH4 definitely exceeded all best expectations.
I hope sources will soon tell me what Panasonic camera is coming in 2015. Just for fun: Let me know what Panasonic system camera you would consider to buy:
[poll id=”260″]
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131 Responses
For me entry level GH with IBIS, or GX8 with swiwel screen
The GM is really quite expensive so I would not surprised if sales have been less than hoped.
Yes. Drop the price to 1/2, it will sell.
And additionally there is need for the one universal zoom:
– about 14 – 100
– good optical performance
– attractive price
– see Nikon 18 – 140 & 18 – 105
It doesn’t even have to drop to half the price, just €200-€250 cheaper for the GM5 will do for starters. It’s €849 for …sake, that’s just demasiado dineros 😉
In the next GM and GX I expect a better EVF than the crappy one that’s in now. Totally unusable when panning, I get nausious and a headache. It’s like 3d games with bad refreshrates.
I am not surprised either – The GM5 is WAY overpriced. The GM1 price is more than just ok (for what you get – I love that little thing ^^) – But the GM5 has to drop AT LEAST 100€ (here in Europe) to be by far interesting. The missing 4K, no DFD, no mechanical shutter upgrades (according flash sync for example) and the still missing mic input – Not
worth around 300 to 350€ more (that´s the price difference actually here in europe).
The LX100 is WAY more interesting (at around the same price level). Better EVF, internal 4K, DFD (depth from defocus) and the even better optical performance (lens wise). Also the better mechanical shutter with way higher flash sync is worth alot.
Would LOVE to upgrade to an GM5 (from my GM1). But it´s not worth it actually.
Yea, the GM1 is now US$550 here and that’s ok, but the GM5 is errrr, not so ok. It’s nearly 40% more and while the upgrades are nice I’m not sure it’s worth that much!
GM series is under serious threat from LX100, I think if they price it lower the sale would be better. (morphing GM and GF together) , GX should upgrade its IBIS to 3/5 Axis so it work on video too.
I would say quite a few camera series are under threat from competion from the LX100 and not only those made from Panasonic like G series. The GM1 continues to do well in Japan market one of the largest ever since intro and even now probably Panys top selling model close to GF series. Yes Pany does appear to be letting the GM series take over from the GF series with price drops in GM1 and I would expect the GM5 will follow with reductions in price in time as presently priced too high considering same parts as GM1 except for EVF. The GX7 has been hurt most by the newer similar Sony 5000 series
What I really would like to see is a GX8 based on the smaller LX100 body and with a swivel screen. I agree the GX8 should have IBIS system that also works with video but maybe 4k video is ruled out because of heat generated by IBIS?
A GX8 with the Panasonic sensor that is inside the E-M1 would have made me seriously consider Panasonic instead of Olympus.
Yes, I just replaced my EP5 with an LX100 and will see what is better – new EM5 or GX7 for my u4/3 lenses.
Can a mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera be to small?
The whole point of having the ability to change lenses is rendered useless when the body is too small because a majority of lenses available would make the whole package unbalanced.
The Pany LX100 and Sony RX100(m3) are very balanced cameras, when the body is of this size the only option is to have a fixed zoom lens. I believe the market has proved this right
This is just sheer nonsense. Ofcourse for people with large hands the GM1/5 could be too small but the average Joe would be fine with it. Just add the framiec grip and it’s as comfortable as other cam’s.
The GM1 works well with large lenses. The left hand should always support the lens so any size camera would be just fine!
I think this “camera too small for large lenses” talk is something of recent times. Back in the day nobody complained. A minimal grip, like the franiec or flip bac one, will suffice imo
Nonsense…
Really, the camera is not selling….
“The GM1 works well with large lenses”
No it doesn’t.
“Back in the day nobody complained.”
There were no small mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras back in the day.
GM1/GM5 is a very good camera, but for its purpose, it is to small.
Adding a grip helps but not much. If it was a fixed zoom lens it would probably sell much better.
This is just sheer nonsense. Ofcourse for people with large hands the GM1/5 could be too small but the average Joe would be fine with it. Just add the framiec grip and it’s as comfortable as other cam’s.
The GM1 works well with large lenses. The left hand should always support the lens so any size camera would be just fine!
I think this “camera too small for large lenses” sh!t is something of recent times. Back in the day nobody complained. A minimal grip, like the franiec or flip bac one, will suffice imo.
We can understand the merits of GM line but for “general public” it’s a lot of money to spend for something that doesn’t look “professional”. I bought one for my significant other with the intention to use it sparingly as my pocket camera. She eventually stopped using it – it was just one more (even though cute) device to carry and the instant gratification she gets while posting mobile phone photos to Facebook trumps everything – to her it’s about bonding with friends (new nail polish etc.) and not about pursuit of image quality. And honestly, it didn’t even replace my GX7 which I use for travels. Because if I carry multiple lenses, filters, batteries etc. it means a small camera bag anyway.
When the GM1 first appeared my girlfriend was really interested. We went to B&H to try one out and while she (we) thought it was really cute, she really prefers using an EVF. The 12-32mm wasn’t zoomy enough for her, either. So, our GX1 + LVF2 + 14-140mm II seemed good enough.
The GM5 is a big improvement, but for that kind of money, it really should have a tilting LCD.
Mine is
GX1 + LVF2 + 45mm F1.8 / 25mm F1.4
FULL FRAME is a Dinosaur, soon to become extinct. I wouldn’t expect many FULL-FRAME-FANBOIS to be reading a M4/3 site.
FF mongers will always keep monging.
They tend to ignore that we have a shitload of F/0.95 lenses for their very specific ultrathin DOF / black cats on coal mine’s needs… (which would still give them less DOF than what they can ever use).
The GM5 is a side-grade from the GM1. It’s larger, sacrifices the built-in flash for a hot-shoe (which of course makes it even larger, and even harder to carry all the pieces you might want), and adds an EVF which makes the thing even larger. While the EVF would be nice, I can’t see how the camera would be better than my GM1, particularly when the whole point of the line is to make the cameras as tiny as possible.
The same thing happened with all the upgrades from the GF1, none of them were pure upgrades, they were all side-grades and reimaginings of the line. While it’s nice to see Panasonic trying new things, constantly starting new lines, then ending them, never giving clear upgrades from one to the next, etc., may be a reason for reduced sales, as people don’t upgrade as often, because upgrades aren’t compelling.
I totally agree. They just need to release a GM2 with the better controls from the GM5 and support for 1080p60. The RGBW LCD from Sony would be a nice addition too.
Yeah, and get rid of the af-mode dial which is useless when you have a touch screen.
Shift the program mode dial to the left and put a real command dial on top. On this small cam we don’t need a command dial on the front if a sufficiently large one is operable with the thumb. Make the record button programmable for other settings, put the GF5 grip or the Franiec one on the front and a thumb hook on the back and ergonomically I’ll be satisfied. The dimensions, ofcourse, shouldn’t change, safe for the added grip. Let it have DFD or phasedetect pixels on the sensor, keep it 1080p.
Of course I vote for GX8 .
Considering there is a rumor that X Pro 2 likely to be on hold for a brand new sensor , this might be the sensor for Pana likely to get from the collaboration
yeah,i saw and hope they complete Organic-Tech sensor
This likely be it .
Considering GX track release record , fall on year end , I can assume the GX7 successor have pretty much time for that ultimate sensor tech of the century .
Pana is under huge pressure from A7000 or even A9 in 2015 so it really need something special to the respond .
if they stuck a mic and headphone jack, some weather sealing along with
ibis for vid and 4k onto a gx would be great, also the knob layout from
the lx100 is really nice, worth incorporating on the gx line methinks.
gx line could afford to go more premium while keeping within a sub 1k
price bracket. I prefer the rangefinder style. I would have gotten a gx7
only for the lack of a mic port so ended up going from gh1 and gh2 to
two g6s, haven’t upgraded since.
Why so much talk about FF? Since there is no multi-vendor consortium around FF lenses I don’t see how they would make a good selection of lenses for a presumed FF camera. I personally hate the bulk of FF lenses, but I don’t mind the option for those who need the super shallow DoF or shooting night for day as with the Sony A7s. If Panasonic or Olympus chose to go down the FF route I really hope they produce a cheap adapter for Nikon or Canon lenses, or try to be a bit more open about the mount and electronics. That would also make it easier for companies such as Metabones to add great lens options to the system.
24×36 sensor is kinda reference for several reasons like the few you mentioned. It will prob not enter the mft line up.
I’m not saying it would be part of the m4/3 (it wouldn’t obviously because of the sensor size). I just meant that because a FF sensor is not covered by m4/3 lenses you will have to have another product line with lenses to cover that. Since there is already a lot of Canon and Nikon lenses out there one could always dream that if Panasonic releases an FF system they would also release adapters, just like what Metabones is doing (e.g. Canon lens on Sony NEX camera). In my opinion there are already enough FF lens mounts out there (Canon, Nikon, Sony A, Sony FE) and the only way Panasonic would be able to sell another one is if they go together with other manufacturers and try to be open with the standard. This would be in stark contrast to what big Canon and Nikon are doing hiding their specs trying to protect their own sales. What Sigma is doing is basically reverse-engineering the communication protocol (so there is no guarantee that a lens will work with a newer camera). This could all be avoided if one of the companies would open up their lens mount protocol, seeing that it actually benefits sales of both lenses and camera bodies when more companies join the same mount.
i dont think any new possible 24×36 mount manufacturer is in the mood to work with other 24×36 lenses directly. So only adapters are the solution.The best one would be Sony with the 7II imo to go for adapting 24×36 lenses .
no FF on m4/3 site but about provider oly/panny ,
now panny had Super-35mm CMOS on Varicam and native ISO
is 800-5000 (last article)
LX-8 Please. LX100 is complete failure.
You mean the best compact camera ever?
If Panasonic was listening, they would have probably refreshed the G line.
I know no one is buying the G6 anymore, and so they decided not to update that line. That’s a kind of chicken and egg situation. No one is buying the G6 because the GX7 had superior tech and a lot of people was waiting for it to come to a G7, but then Panasonic doesn’t launch it because no one is buying the G6… 🙁
Unfortunately what they have done was focus on niches (GH4, GM) and forgot the majority of users (those who came from DSLRs – or those like me who came from a GH2 and have no interest to upgrade to GH4).
I don’t know what the future brings, but if Olympus step up with their codec, Panasonic will have lost me because they will have absolutely nothing to compete with the upcoming E-M6 and the GH4 is completely overkill for that segment…
GH4 definitely worth for your GH2 to upgrade .
That GH2 still imaging quality already being outclassed by the launched of GX1 , not to mention GX7 .
No, and I’ll tell you why…
I don’t need weather sealing, I don’t want GH4 size, just GH2 form factor and size, and I want IBIS.
Thus, I don’t want to pay over 700€/$
EM-6 will be all of that and possibly more.
why you not think about a e-m10 then? the video specs?(oh i know its kinda exciting to see the e-m6 specs first)
Olympus sensor subsampling is prehistoric. It’s codec is dismall. 🙁
You are right, the e-m10 should be a great camera for me, but my GH2 has spoiled with unprecedent video quality and now I demand at least as good as that. The GX7 with proper binning and High H264 profiles is OK for me (even if at 28mbps).
I’ve been waiting on Olympus forever to minimally fullfill on video and going by the rumours it looks like they finally got there, now let’s see how they readout…
I am in the same boat. Still use and like the gh2.I recently looked for an update with mostly looking towards the gx7 as the gh4 is great but a bit expensive and large. But the viewfinder in the gx7 really put me off.to small. I then tried the g6 and em-10. Both have worse viewfinders than the gh2 and focusing felt dissapointing on the em-10. Now I am hoping for the gx8 to give me a newer sensor with ibis, a larger viewfinder and I really would like an oversized sensor again!
Except that, barring a miracle, it’ll be saddled by the the Byzantine Oly user interface and fussy function-follows-form ergonomics.
I’d LOVE a GH2 sized camera again. While the handling of the GH3/4 is excellent, having carried a GX7 almost every day for the past year, I just couldn’t see myself carrying a camera that big around as much as I do.
My GH2 is still good enough for me, not to wonder why and when I’ll upgrade. Sure I could use IBIS, better ISO, better EVF, etc. But its no excuses for me. Unless you are shooting in the worst conditions possible, you can’t tell me it’s not good enough for almost anyone out here. Even the sensor.
Eventually, I’ll get a newer and badder GX, GH or EM, where ever they will be at…
No .
GH2 sensor is 2 generation behind , even in lowest ISO is possible to see it’s imaging significant behind GX1 .
Time to upgrade .
I guess two generations behind is good enough for me…
Just to make it clear, I am aware that in the arm race, the marketing blabla, this sensor is old news. That is not my point.
IMO the G series failure mainly due to not having best sensor it suppose to have .
If you look at the G & GF series , both always have second class sensor compare with GX & GH ( lately ) .
Pana like to catogories it’s product class clearly but without aware what is the rule of the market is running .
This cost G series hitting hard by EM5 & GF by NEX .
If GM5 had IBIS like GX7 it would be a killer camera. Great with unstabilized and small primes like Panasonic 15 or 20mm. Now it’s just an expensive GM1 with an EVF.
IBIS is LUMIX commitment exclusively reserved for GX7 , even GH4 if I’m not wrong didn’t have such feature .
But believe me , you don’t really need that less than 1 stop compensate for a small camera like GM .
I hold my GX1 firmly better than GX7 .
Try to train your hand like punching , push up & …
I pretty sure maybe you can recover more than a stop from the training .
I trick I learned from an old photographer : take a deep breath and hold it before pressing the shutter. It will stabilize your hands a great deal.
I’m aware about this but the practical way is to make your hand tough like top DSLR photographers where they shoot in 300mm without any IBIS support .
I can control pretty well in GX1 but GX7 a bit struggling , maybe that’s why IBIS is needed .
IBIS is a Crutch to photographers. The way it’s praised around these parts is ridiculous.
IBIS is not the end-all. It’s merely a perk… Like focus peaking.
Some of y’all need to get over it. Seriously.
And now SONY has it, in a Full Frame camera. It’s no longer a selling point of Olympus. It’s over, Done.
This couldn’t be further from the truth. IBIS is not a crutch, it’s a tool for getting a shot, no different from a faster aperture or a longer focal length.
Being able to handhold an exposure 2-3 stops longer cannot be underestimated. Additionally, having that capability doesn’t make it a crutch, you still need good handheld technique in order to shoot slower than 1/focal length with or without ibis. The effectiveness of the system is only increased with the inclusion of ibis.
If you don’t want that “crutch” then so be it, but the rest of us are open minded enough to not let our ego’s get in the way of our shooting.
Your suggestion has nothing to do with the helpfulness of IBIS. Whether your hands are shaky or very stable, the IBIS still gives you the ability to use a shutter speed that is a stop or two slower than if you didn’t have IBIS!
I never said it has anything to do with it.
To each his own. To me, IBIS is a desirable feature, yet no big deal if I don’t have it..
GM sales are still low because the GM5 has not arrived in the stores in large numbers.
I’m considering to buy a GM5 as replacement for the GF1 as small always available camera. I’m also considering the LX100 and for me it’s a hard decission. It think LX100 is better for video and GM5 is better for stills. But I don’t know if the GM5 together with the small 12-32 is much better in stills or if this needs better (larger) lenses.
Anyone that wants a full-frame Pana or Oly must not like or own any of their m4/3 stuff, because one would hinder the development of the other. They are not directly competing with Nikon, Canon, and Sony right now. A full-frame camera would be drowned out by these other options.
I think that most people just drool over imaginary specs and forget that FF would require bigger and heavier lenses. The Sony A7 series is neat, but the lenses are still bulky (they were smart enough to let the sensor work in APS-C mode with E-lenses though, so you can get some sort of a compromise for portability). Of course FF has it’s place (super-shallow DoF, very low-light etc.) but most people like myself hanging out here just want a portable system.
Short story: this weekend I was shooting soccer and the weather was dismal a colleague with 35mm was looking at my gear and was surpriced of the “small” setup, E-M1 + 40-150mm and 75mm he had pics of the goalie that were almost totally blurred safe for just the an elbow in focus we we relatively near the action.
I had the same shots done with the 75mm which came out brilliant most of the goalie in focus. He was using a 70-200 F2.8 but only with half the shutterspeed compared to my picture. The iso he limited to 3200, I believe mine was done at around iso 800/1000. The F1.8 on the 75mm made me get the shot and due to the little wider fov (150m eq.) I had much advantage over his setup.
Afterwards when we compared pics from 40-150mm and his 70-200 he was was again surprised. The 40-150 + E-M1 combo was fully up to the job.
This shows that there’s more to photography than DxO numbers or “ultimate IQ”, it’s about getting the results desired and I think m43 will have a great future regardless, Panasonic and Olympus!
G6 sucessor with better up-to-date sensor and hardwear auto/manual focus switch which will work while video capturing (it may be customizable fn button). Or GH3 in more compact and lightweight form-factor and focus peaking. Or GX7 with mic input. So, any existing camera has one or more bad property for me. I own G6 now as a compromise and it’s very cool!
The GM5 is all I ever wanted from Micro Four Thirds. Pocketable, EVF, small primes, small tele lens.
GM is a nice camera. But considering that in about half of the world (with 50Hz mains) it is useless indoors, one should have adjusted the sales expectations by at least half.
If not for the e-shutter, I would have bought the GM1 when it was released. But since I already own GX7 and stumbled on many occasions into the limitations of the e-shutter, I knew that limit of 1/50 SS with mechanical shutter is simply way too slow to be useable.
On the GM1 I seldonly use flash, as a matter of fact I generally seldomly use flash with any camera.
It suffices for portraits or fill in flash for portraits or static situations. It helps that the flash can be fulled back for bounce effect.
Please no FF, my hands are to tiny and my body is to weak to handle APSC or FF just like most of us M43 users. Give us some decent camera’s. We dont need the best picture quality.
If you can’t handle a Fuji sized camera, then something must be wrong with you, No disrespect by the way. A XT-1 is around the same size as a EM1 or GX7 and the lenses are in the same ballpark too.
It’s a troll, it posts the same “my body is too weak” stuff under nearly every article here. Don’t waste your time replying to it.
You fell for a troll. Albeit a tiny, weak troll.
Yeah, and the UI is atrocious and AF is slow. Retro style over substance, like the Df.
I take it you’re shooting with a Pentax 645Z? Or a Better Light scanning back?
They had too many lines going, so I think it’s good that the G and GF are on hold. I think they should focus on three – GM for portability with lens options, GX for street shooters, GH for video. Now that they have a few revs in each line, they can continue to make the older models (probably one generation back) and sell them cheaper as entry-level versions side-by-side with the newer models that sport better tech. I personally would also scrap cheap kit lenses… still do the 12-32 as a tiny kit for the GM (and find a way to make it f/2-f/2.8!), but then only bundle the GX/GH with either a prime or a pro-grade zoom.
Just keep the GX and the GH line, forget the others. GX is small enough — if not, too bad, people who demand “even smaller!” should use an iPhone or quit doing photography.
Nah, I want a GM5 as a third body.
Perhaps Panasonic should specialize vs Olympus by releasing a nature and sports oriented lens like say pro version 100-300 f4 with IS.. How about release a Panasonic GH-X with much higer frame rates and even better focus system and larger image buffer. The current GH4 has heavily compressed 96fps video mode .. Improve on that by adding a UHS-II card slot and provide 120 fps 1080p that is as good (image quality wise) as the regular 1080p video from GH4. upgrade 4K recording to 60fps with double the bitrate.
All these crappy lenses are useless. MFT is such a system that if you want to use a standard zoom lens you basically have two options the pana 12-35mm and oly 12-40 2.8. All others zooms are too poor image quality for me. I have the 12-35 and it barely goes past the mark of good enough image (IMO). If a system is to be taken seriously it need serious options like the panaleica 42.5mm lens. Then again I can get the Tamron 90mm 2.8 VC that has 26mpix of resolution on a D810 for ~500 euros. The system is expensive and still quite lacking.. Like a proper macro lens (read f.1.4-1.8) + proper pro telephoto.
Proper macros are best at f/11-f/16 (for m4/3), otherwise you get a blurry mess with one sliver in focus when you get in that close. f/2.8 is totally fine as a max aperture on a macro – any more and the lens would have to be unnecessarily large. Both the P-L45 and the Oly60 are proper macros – super sharp, beautiful images with proper stabilization, and both go to 1:1 which is where a true macro lens should be. Otherwise, I agree about the zooms – crappy kit zooms don’t pair well with the quality of the sensor. May as well get a point and shoot and save a ton of money at that point.
Sure. but I I want my upcoming mft macro to do double duty and work as a brilliant portrait lens.
I just did a quick search, and I wasn’t able to locate any macro lenses for any system that were much better that f/2.8 (there’s one f/2.5, but that’s not really that different) – I’m wondering if it’s just not optically possible, or would make the lens ridiculously huge/heavy
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?&ci=274&N=4288584247+4109120021
It’s a choice the manufacturer makes. I have the 75mm 1.8 Olympus and if the Macro was of equal weight it would not be too heavy yet. I have been eyeing Zeiss 100 f2 macro for my Nikon. Brilliant lens .. it’s best to remember that 2.8 is not as shallow as portrait lens on a MFT body as it is on APC let alone FF body. I have experience mostly from 100 2.8 Canon Macro (5DII& 550D). But I have been reading reviews and test results of the Zeiss 2.0. The Blurring ability at f2 with FF is quite a bit different vs 2.8. .. 2.8 macro is equal to was it 5.6 death of field of FF or F4.0 ?
The Zeiss is not a 1:1 macro. Nice lens and all, and probably great in the field for nature photography, but it’s not the same as a 1:1, so you can’t really compare it. My guess is that they made the 1:2 compromise so that they could get another stop of light and make it more geared toward general use, rather than specialize in close-up photography like the PL45 or your 100 f/2.8. There must be a reason we don’t see any f/1.4-f/1.8 true (1:1) macro lenses.
Olympus OM-System Zuiko 50mm f/2 and 90mm f/2
Bright aperture is especially useful with extension tube/bellows which reduce transmission. Shallow DOF is useful for accurate focusing. When shot is taken, aperture stops down automatically to selected aperture. With new lenses that have aperture ring, we should be able to switch between manual and auto diaphragm.
Both of those are 1:2 – I don’t see why you’d get that and go through the whole hassle of an extension tube to get to 1:1 (which probably knocks off a few stops of light) if you could just get a 1:1 lens that’s a stop faster. Shallow DoF is really irritating with most macro work, especially in the f/2-f/2.8 range.
All of my MFT glass outperforms the FF pro glass I shot with for 10 years and just sold.
Please stop spamming.
Comments like yours are as useful as dandruff.
Frankly, who takes m43 seriously? Count out the usual keyboard warriors and you will end up with a handful of non-photographing marketing victims.
Future of GH should use S35 sensor, for those that don’t shoot m4/3 glass or for 2k stabilized to 1080p or 5k > 4k. Would also like to see a departure from SLR pentaprism design and more of a cube / modular approach with movable / detachable LCD/EVF. GM and GX could be distilled down to a single line, size near GM, but performance of GX. I cancelled my GM5 preorder when it was massively delayed, mainly because I was not happy with the small EVF and the fact that HDMI output was disabled for all but playback (for external monitor or recording).
I wonder if a Super 35mm sensor can fit behind the current m4/3 mount? It appears some m4/3 lenses can cope with S35. So maybe.
And there is that new JVC which has a S35 sensor and m4/3 mount.
At the very least…. more multi aspect sensors like the GH2 would be wonderful!
Panasonic needs a super-wide/fast fixed lens MFT sensor Waterproof sports/action camera to go head to head with the GoPro. Same built in color profiles as the GH4. This is the B cam to die for.
i hope,new series or gx8 on RF style,
new sensor compose Micro Color Splitter and photo site with organic tech
wow , i saw fuji source they ready to release new X-PRO with new tech sensor ^_^
I am very much interested in a 4k-capable GX8.
Not sure how reliable your sources are as the actual sales of the GM and GH4 tell a different story. just take a look at. DSLRsales.com Right now holiday sales of GM1 are surging in Japan the larger Asia market and at least 4 times that of the GH4 in comparison. In latest the sales of GF also surged as did the G6 on the list. Yes the initial GH4 production and projected sales have increased substantially since introduction but still not in top 80 models in Japan while GM1 has 3 models in the top 30-70? Yes sales of GH4 may be better in US where GM has not fared as well. Still the GM5 has not been available in sufficient numbers nor the LX100 for that matter to make any accurate projections at this point other than these models continue to receive top ratings over in DPR’s most popular listing based on hits.
Why not a choice to chose a PAnasonic APS-C camera, off the news that they’re developing the Organic sensor with FUJI? APS-C would make the most sense.
1. Fuji is in a partnership with Fuji, which uses a APS-C sized sensor.
2. Both Fuji and Panasonic makes Lenses with Aperture rings.
3. Both make Rangefinder-like Bodies.
It just makes sense.
I wonder, are APS-C sensors cheaper to produce, since there is obviously far more demand for them over the 4/3 sensor?
Dunno, but between Full Frame, APS-C and Four Thirds, the APS-C is the best Compromise. And no matter how better the Four Thirds sensor gets, APS-C will always trump it, just as FF will always trump APS-C.
And this is coming from a person that got rid of his Canon 6D for Fuji.
Besides, Four Thirds can’t get over the 16mp hump, like APS-C has done already. Anything over 16mp will be a noise disaster for Four Thirds.
In fact, I wish Panasonic would do a 12mp GX8 for better low light performance.
That’s true. Anyone who claims m43 sensors are “as good as” APS-C sensors hasn’t actually shot with a recent (2012 and onward) APS-C camera in real life conditions. The differences in image quality, dynamic range and high ISO (6400 and even higher) are quite dramatic. And APS-C keeps moving forward while the m43 sensors seem stuck in time.
APS-C may be in the worst position, the worst of all worlds. Lenses are as big and heavy as FF, but IQ is behind FF, and the same as m4/3rds for all practical purposes. Would not be surprised to see APS-C sensors disappear in the long run, although it well be a while. M4/3rds is the format in the “sweet spot.”
APSC out sales m43 sensors 30 to 1 if not more. Seriously Google it. But it is okay, just keep shooting, don’t worry that other people on a forum thinks your camera sensor is a POS. Keep it under 800iso m43 is just fine.
Yeah, I’m not worried what you think of my sensor. My clients love my photos, and people buy my prints. Horses for courses. What courses are you running where any of this makes a difference?
“Dunno, but between Full Frame, APS-C and Four Thirds, the APS-C is the best Compromise.” This is the crap I was responding to. Your quote yes? So again 30:1 ratio in sales number begs to differ. Now, what are you talking about? something about different courses, and what you do for living? Don’t you think it is a bit offensive that you just assume some random stranger should care?
I would say m4/3 is the worst of all worlds – worse image quality and still not truly pocketable (unless you’re year-round in a winter coat or something). You still have to bring a bag. And will have worse image quality than, say, a D3300, which is a pretty small DSLR.
Then why do you shoot M43?
I fell for the hype. 😉 Actually, m4/3 was fine relative to the competition about four or five years ago. But not anymore. When entry level Nikon DSLRs are beating the top of the line Olympus offering that is not good.
So that begs the obvious question, why are you still here?
I’m genuinely curious.
I’m hoping for a new m4/3 sensor that performs better at high ISO and am hoping we see it in 2015. I still have all my m4/3 glass (about six or seven lenses) and three m4/3 bodies, haven’t sold anything (yet). I have [tough] love for m4/3.
Lenses, my boy, lenses. My 3-zoom 2-prime MFT bag covering 14-400mm EFL is the size of a smallish purse and weighs half as much as a FF or APS kit. And, really, how many people need to shoot above ISO 3200 or make prints bigger than 30″x40″ on a regular basis? Pros who need that will go FF.
> “APS-C may be in the worst position, the worst of all worlds. Lenses are as big and heavy as FF”
That is because there are so few lenses made specifically for APS-C cameras, but when you do check out ones which are (such as Sigma’s 18-35mm f/1.8 and 50-150mm) then they’re pretty sweet!
Oh come on. Are current gen 16 mpx sensors worse than the old 12 mpx ones, because they have more pixels?
I don’t see why, with updated technologies, you could not make a 20mpx 4/3 sensor that performs at least as good as current gen, if not better. Do current sensors utilize BSI? Do they use the benefits of smaller manufacturing process? Copper instead of aluminium? There’s quite a lot ways for improving IQ. I really don’t see why we would not get them in future products. It’s not Canon, you know.
“Dunno, but between Full Frame, APS-C and Four Thirds, the APS-C is the best Compromise.”
It’s a compromise that leaves nobody satisfied. For me, it’s MFT or FF mirrorless. APS was a bad compromise as a film size, and it’s no better for sensors. Not with FF becoming affordable and MFT so much smaller.
The nonsense continues from the number one troll – MrALLCRAP.
To me, APS-C makes NO sense. Bigger, heavier, limited lens selection, and only marginally better IQ. A 10% increase in print size and a 1/2 stop improvement in high-ISO noise don’t set my heart aflutter.
I WOULD LIKE TO BUY A LX-100-body without lense FOR 400$.
IT makes its 4k-Videos and i put on it i want.
IS THIS SO HEAVY TO UNDERSTANDß
PLEASE NOT EVER THIS WHAT SHOULD WE BUILD NEXT IDIOTICA
THE BIG FULLSENSOR GH-4 LIKE CAM has 10 bit 4k and costs 1000$..
so no 3th. cam and kill the asspain rest. we HAVE 2015….so do not go the
way of SONY and do not speake about pipifax okay…
last years of bullshit show is enough.
Nooo…. I want to see a G7 launched!
Why G7? The only thing I like about my G6 over my GX7 is the fully articulated LCD. Slap that on a GX8 and the G can go bye-bye.
Fully articulated LCD is a big thing for me
Why oh why FF again? Are we on a 4/3 rumors site or not? Jesus!!
G7 with better sensor would sell like hotcakes! It’s the perfect alternative to entry-level dslrs. And would still be a great low budget and more stills oriented alternative to the GH series. I really want a fully articulated screen but also want a step up in IQ from my G3. A lot of G3,5&6 users would upgrade if the IQ took a leap forward. Only reason the G series is not selling enough is the sensor if you ask me…
Entry-level buyers never went for the G6. It’s too boring, and most folks instinctively go for a cheap DSLR. MFT is strong with more informed and dedicated shooters and with folks who just want something tiny but good. The G lies in-between.
Interesting survey, but you only give one choice. Personally I think a G7 with the GX7 or GX8 sensor would be a good complement to booth the GX7 and GM5. It is a system with lenses that are appropriate for each level of size.
Nobody really likes the G. My G6 is OK, but I reach first for the GX7 every time. The G is too under-specced to compete with Olympus, and it’s size and shape make it less appealing as a casual cam. The only way the G survives is if Panasonic dramatically up-spec it to make it a better pro stills cam than the E-M1, and I don’t expect they’ll make that commitment. The E-M1 has too much mindshare in the pro stills community. A GX8 with a could go head to head with the E-M1 and appeal to more casual users as well. The sensor is already there. All it’d need are a better, larger 4:3 EVF, a faster frame rate, a fully articulated LCD, DFD AF, tweaked ergonomics, and maybe better IBIS. All of these technologies already exist.
Nobody? Well, all the reviews are raving.. Only reason is not selling IMHO is the ageing sensor. It is for me. I’ld like some extra DR for contrasty landscapes and architecture shots.
It’s not a sexy camera (though certainly not bad looking), but not everyone wants the latest retro design. I’m sure the grip on the G6 is more comfortable with the 7-14mm (my main lens) than on the GX7. The EVF is supposed to be a lot better as well. I’ve done my homework and if the G6 would have a better sensor, it would be my weapon of choice.
If the GX8 had a fully articulated screen and a better ECF though…
Simplify the lines. Have a high end “GH” and an ultracompact like the “GM.” There are so many variations of micro 4/3 cameras from Panasonic that if a friend wants advice on a new camera, I have no idea what to recommend. Having a zillion variations with arbitrary distinctions is silly. Refine the GH4 into a “GH4+” that uses current CPU and whatnot the way that MS and Sony sue process shrinks to make cheaper/smaller/cooler variations of their existing consoles. Push out the “GH4+” for < $1000. Put as many features as is practical in the little GM. Don't throw out anything that is just a software distinction to try to segment the market artificially. My little GF3, for example, won't let me set manual settings for recording video. It's obviously easier to write the firmware for a manual mode than an automatic mode, so only having automatic is an example of the artificial market segmentation that I am talking about.
Yep, a GX8 for me – improved IBIS and IBIS in video would be killer. Some additional pixels or DR would also be welcome, but not necessary.
I’m still waiting for the black GM1 here in the US.
I like GX7, would love to see GX8, but i have to agree GH + GM lines should be what Panasonic focus in the future.
2015 camera market is a lot difference than early 2010s: Now we have competition from Fuji (excellent lens lineup, great out of camera jpeg, great looking camera), Sony (affordable FF lineup + APSC camera now with really fast focus), huge sensor DC (and smartphone !)
So for me “good enough” camera is not what Panasonic needed, they need a product that has an edge in the market: You want the best video mirrorless camera? You got GH series. You want a really small but high quality lens exchangeable camera? You got GM series.
The GX7 is where serious amateurs who want a small but capable camera but don’t care about video go. There’s still a lot of interest in the E-M5, and the GX7 is its direct competition. The GM series is the new purse cam. The GH series is too big, expensive and irrelevant for dedicated stills shooters. It would be a mistake for Panasonic to cede the “serious stills” market to Olympus. I shoot professionally with a GX7 and G6 and would gladly replace the latter with a GX8 that had a fully-articulated LCD.
Ok, I was hoping for a G7 with better sensor (not into video), but a GX8 with an articulated screen would be even better. I shoot a lot in portrait from varying angles, so the current GX7 is not an option, as much as I like all the rest of the camera.
So for me they can ditch the G line, but only if they put the full swivel on the GX! GH is way too expensive and too video oriented (16:9 EVF..) for a stills shooter on a budget.
The GH it’s huge and for videographer.
The GM it’s a toy for woman or everyday use.
The GX (G,GF) it’s a photocamera.
“toy”??? “for woman”??? I’m a pro, not a woman, and I would love to have a GM5. So much for stereotypes.
GX8 with a better EVF. the GX7 EVF is just terrible for a company that makes screens.
GM6/7/8 … 😉
… (and a smaller GH4ii ; no reason to resurrect the G, GF, GX lines).
Not surprised about GM5 sales, it’s not much improvement from GM1 while you can get GM1 for less than $500. Also the LX100 probably took some sales away from GM5.
What would I like to see from Panasonic future model is to have IBIS. I have several olympus glasses and none of them provide IS 🙁
GX8/GF8/GM8/G8 with IBIS (on par with olym 5 axis ibis), articulated screen, 4k video.
If Panny have to make IBIS, then Olympus should make IS lens for Panasonic body
Oh noes, GM5 is as large as I can carry, I have weak little girly hands.