Last week I told you how Panasonic decided to not release any G and GF camera this year. And another trusted source just told me that also the GX line is under review. Panasonic is now thinking to “re-engeneer” the GX series to make it really standout. If they don’t come up with something smart and realizable they will not update the GX7 this year neither.
Question to our readers: What should Panasonic do to improve the GX series and make it a real challenger for the competition like the Fuji X-E2 and Sony A6000?
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FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
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FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
261 Responses
“they will not update the GX7 this year neither ”
I’m sure I’ve read another double negative on 43rumours recently
Its not English. Well, it is in fact English wording, but it is not used appropriately. A so called double negative is the least of its problems.
“Its not English” is not English, either. “its problems” is formally right but it points at a missing subject. But yet, you school us all. Do you work in a rice field and try to make up online?
Thinner with squarer grip, better viewfinder, better IBIS and all silver or all black.
yeah – i bet they will take more design cues from the GM1. simpler, cleaner, more classic (…and more classy).
It would be nice if Panasonic and all the other company’s only make a new model if there is really something to improve and ad some new stuff. It would safe a lot of money for the company’s.
One of the best comments I’ve read for a while.
IQ is no real reaon for upgrading fhese days.
Very, very smart indeed.
That´s good news. A little “re-thinking” never does any harm.
Although the headline should have been “… is being rethought”.
An EVF of the standard of that in the EM-1 would help. Weather sealing. Improved IBIS.
Yes, an E-M1 competitor would be perfect. They really need to put a better sensor in there though, because right now it’s not as good as the E-M1. On paper the GX7 would be the camera I would get but the image quality was not there yet for me…
The irony being that the E-M1 has a Panasonic sensor http://www.43rumors.com/surprise-olympus-e-m1-uses-a-panasonic-sensor/
Yeah, therefore the only true comparison shall be made on RAW-level. Olys JPEGs are more aggressively touched up, thus appear “better”, but if you want to tweak you image, the Pany ones are better source material.
Well, how do you explain the differences in resolution between the GX7 and EM-1 in terms of resolution? Maybe it’s the AA filter.
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Leica-Summilux-DG-25mm-F14-versus-Panasonic-Leica-Summilux-DG-25mm-F14-on-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-versus-Panasonic-Leica-Summilux-DG-25mm-F14-on-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX7___450_0_450_909_450_901
This just shows how stupid dxo comparisons are. Real life comparisons including pixel peeping show very little difference between GX7 and E-M1. The GX7 does not have an AA filter either. (This coming from an Olympus user)
Any data to back that up? I’m a numbers man and I’d rather believe MTF charts. DXO is not perfect, but better than nothing. I looked at a lot of pictures on Flickr and a quick comparison with similar lenses lead me to favour the Olympus to the GX7. I would have loved to love the GX7 as it is my dream camera in any other way.
Got some images on imaging resource that are appropriate. Just this one for instance shows much better resolution on the E-M1 if you look at the texture of the textile. Both at ISO 200.
E-M1 =
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/olympus-e-m1/FULLRES/EM1hSLI00200NR2D.HTM
GX7 =
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gx7/FULLRES/GX7hSLI00200NR6D.HTM
Quit photography and take up nerdology.
I can do both, thanks.
Did some pixel peeping, and E-M1 looks a little bit sharper(do you really see a big difference?), but that is probably just because Olympus uses by default a bit more (well controlled)sharpening.
I think both images look excellent in terms of color and sharpness.
Well, I see a difference, you see a difference, DXO reports a difference so there IS a difference despite both having panasonic sensors. From what I’ve seen on DXO mark, I need a camera/lens combo to goes above 10-11 MPix to enjoy the image rather than focus on the blurred details. That’s just me though.
Image quality of the GX7 is about the same as the E-M1(and the E-M5 for that matter).
For me personally it’s missing weather sealing compared to my OM-D, but that not a dealbreaker. Also I have a feeling that the IS is a little less good then what Olympus has(although test suggest it’s nearly as good).
Stu must be short for something. They both have Panasonic sensors. Man, the love for Jpegs is strong in M43!
I don’t use JPEG. I actually don’t use MFT at all because the image quality is not there yet. The EM-1 fares better than other MFT cameras to my eye, maybe because of the lack of AA filter.
Feels like Panasonic is continuing to focus M43 up-market by scaling back on everything except for GH line and high quality lenses…
Improved IBIS (perhaps even 5-axis), IBIS which works in the video mode where we need it the most.
Perhaps Panasonic will sell the all-Black model in the U.S. next time so as not to repeat the mistake they made with the GX7.
I’ve had a GX7 since October and a GH2 since early 2011. The GX7 is pretty nice as is, but I can think of a few ergonomic improvements.
Make the grip a beefier and extend it toward the top plate.
This would allow for a bigger battery!
Then shift the shutter release forward on top of the grip. A bit like the Sony A6000.
Add a drive wheel like the GH2 in the space vacated by the shutter button, for focus and shutter modes, with another Fn button in the center.
Add a substantial thumb rest on the back plate.
Add microphone and headphone jacks.
Larger EVF… hopefully not extending out the rear as much.
That sounds awesome! I will get the GM1 and hopefully in 1-3 years when I might consider an upgrade od the body, this thing should be availaible from either Oly or Pana.
> Add a substantial thumb rest on the back plate.
Oh and this one.
+10
The GX7 is nearly one year old. I don’t think we need a new one anytime soon. Panasonic (as well as other brand) should slow down and release a new GX when it can surpass the old one with big and worth improvements. Same goes for the other cameras.
DFD would be nice.
BRING BACK THE MULTI-ASPECT RATIO SENSOR!!! (Yes, I know this is a lost feature of the GH line, but I’d love to see it in a GX camera.)
Some of us CaNikon dSLR users prefer the 3:2 ratio and the GH2 was what got me to bite on the M43 system. Since the M43 sensor size is already so much smaller than FX, the idea of losing even more resolution by cropping the top and bottom off of a 4:3 image to get a 3:2 isn’t appealing. Bring back this innovative GH1 and GH2 feature, please!!!
For me, cropping is very appealing because I have the choise what has to go. I’m cropping mostly to 16:10 and this is actually like having a shift lens in postprocessing. With the wide angle, its most of the time the bottom that goes of because I concentrate on keeping the camera precisely horizontal to avoid perspective distortion.
On the other hand, I think the additional pixels on the left and right are not that important, that I would start to choose the format in advance.
Non-ghosting EVF and native photo sharing / cloud apps. Not kidding.
You give an FT5 rating to a rumour described as “re-thinked” and “re-engeneer”?
As a matter of interest, have you ever analysed your FT5 rumours to see if over 80 per cent of them turn out to be right? Are you sure it is not 8.0 per cent?
“What should Panasonic do to improve the GX series and make it a real challenger for the competition like the Fuji X-E2 and Sony A6000?”
GX7 is already IMO.
Otherwise, things they can improve:
1. Lower price!!!
2. Add DFD (depth from defocus) AF.
3. Make it 50-75 gram lighter.
4. Larger EVF.
Notice that 1 & 2 they can improve without releasing a new camera.
In general, what I find especially troublesome is the e-shutter banding in artificial light. I’m not sure what one can do about it. From my personal tests, the e-shutter is literally useless to me indoors. This is *the* biggest disappointment I had with the camera. Probably it works better in 60Hz countries and/or with different light bulbs.
you can change the frequency in the menu to match the camera to your situation.
How can you add DFD (which BTW requires a newer processor – so new hardware) and a larger EVF while cutting on the price? Does not make sense, dude 😉
Why would DFD require a new processor? This is a pure software feature.
> larger EVF while cutting on the price?
Keeping the price isn’t really an option. A6000 is a direct competitor and started at 650€ which is 350€ less than MSRP of GX7. Ditto E-M10.
Adjust the shutter speed to sync with the electrical system. Use multiples of 60Hz or 50Hz, depending on where you are.
Was the first though. Tried. Doesn’t help. Tried at my home and at friend’s with the same result. Probably the energy saving bulbs are to blame, but they are literally everywhere here in Germany. What still makes the feature useless.
LED lights will soon be the standard. IKEA already replaced their sortiment of cheap energy saving bulbs with LED bulbs. At least here where I live. As LEDs are in light panels I assume they will be much more photo and video friendly.
Its starting to seem like that April Fools joke is coming true
for me: GM1 size with tilted LCD and improved incredible 4k sensor at 1000dollars/euros.
Thanks pany
I have the GM1, I’d definitely agree. They should shift over and have a tilted LCD on it but I think adding a hotshoe and keeping the price near $700-$800 would be a better move. Once you start getting into the $1,000 range I don’t think people will be looking for a small sized camera, they are looking for a larger model that does things better. The GM1 is great but its small size does eliminate some useful buttons and hand holding space which I just don’t think would be a good value at $1,000. If they could add 4K at $800 then it’d be a dream camera but once you hit $1,000 I feel like you enter a new market.
Tilting LCD & hotshoe? What about the accessory port? You already have all that in the GX7, G6 & GH4.
4k for the GM1? Anyone that requires 4k is going to want additional features which the GM1 is not designed for.
Can you imagine how awkward an external viewfinder or flash would be on the GM1?
The GM1 is really, really small with a great sensor. It won’t continue to be really, really small when you keep adding features already found on other models.
Well I’m talking about actual usefulness. If you’ve used a GM1 which I have for about 4 months now, you’ll see that in daylight the back screen is pretty much useless, you can’t see anything in direct sunlight to see if you got your photo or not. I doubt that they could make the camera as small and put a built in veiwfinder but if they had the option of a hotshoe at least people could purchase one if they wanted it. I like the GM1 for its small size and I wouldn’t always have a viewfinder or Flash on it but it’d be great to have the option for it.
Personally I couldn’t care less for 4K video because I rarely shoot video but maybe other people would find it useful, I don’t need it. But the missing hotshoe does not seem like they could not design it, they only left it off to separate the camera from the GX7. Look at the Sony RX100ii, its actually smaller than the GM1 but has a hotshoe option. I was going back and forth between which two of those cameras I would get and I decided on the GM1 for the interchangeable lenses but they could easily fit a hotshoe on the top of it.
Just a small correction: I wouldn’t have a viewfinder or flash on it “all the time”. I’d like the option to use it outdoors in bright sunlight.
Point taken, but you’re comparing apples and oranges. The RX100ii is fixed lens and has a smaller sensor than M43 as I recall. That gives Sony an edge to start with.
And you’ll need an accessory port too, not just hot shoe. Add all those features and the size of the GM1 has to increase. The small size combined with interchangable lens and quality sensor is what makes the GM1 stand out.
You can argue that it doesn’t have to be as small as it is and you may well be right. I think Panasonic has created a brilliant blend of size and features. I’d rather have the smallest possible package for travel and bring my E-M10 when I want to use all the bells & whistles (or have constant sunlight at my back).
In the meantime, pick up an E-PL5, it’s a wonderful camera and perfectly fits your criteria 🙂
Second the idea of a slightly larger grip with a shutter release on it – the one in the GX7 is a little backward for me. Improved IBIS, that could be on using half-shutter and movies – don´t need to be 5-axis, I have a E-M10 too and it’s 3-axis IBIS is already amazing. The dials could be less plasticky and a little bit bigger (especially the one around the shutter).
I don’t have tearing problems with the GX7’s EVF, but it could be a bit larger – and could have the color less saturated from factory (it’s a problem in the Fuji’s too). And the bezel in the right side of the LCD could be trimmed and the back controls moved to the left (the right button of the 4 way control is constantly pressed by the hand).
But PLEASE, keep all the manual controls (especially the AF/MF switch and the clickacle back wheel). It’s the foremost reason that I love the GX7.
IBIS 5axis + 4k sensor + small size
Cheaper primes at F1.8 or F2.0 (that don’t have MEGA or POWER O.I.S.), in-body POWER O.I.S. (at least 3-axis minimum), 200Mbit (or 100Mbit) 1080P with Cinema-D profile (I’d say 4K too, but guess they need to protect GH4).
The GX7 would be even more awesome with:
* Weather Sealing
* Better video (4K)
* Better IBIS
* More dials. Think Fuji
* But of course, IQ is so important. M43 image quality continues to improve, but the pace seems to have slowed considerably. A big break through is needed to propel the platform. How’s that “organic sensor” thing coming, Panny?
Personally, I found (during my week rental) that the tilting EVF protruded a bit more than I like and I did not find a need to tilt it, since the touch screen tilts so usefully. I’d prefer a flush EVF, but understand that that was one of the camera’s big differentiators.
Definitive “yes” to weather sealing.
But “no” to more dials. GX7 controls are already crowded. Instead the clicky back dial IMO should be allowed to be better customized.
A ground breaking sensor such as an organic element sensor that capable of double the color depth , DR & ISO is needed if Pana really want GX truely stand up . Don’t forget to triple up the focusing areas , current 23 is not sufficient .
Otherwise do what Sony & Nikon did , add phase detection pixels into the sensor but I don’t think Pana is going in this way .
Whatever it is , make it a principal , no breakthough no GX7 replacement .
Cheaper and with decent iq…
I would expect the next GX to be as small as a GM1 and with all the features and updated performance (and also bundled with new low profile prime lens). That is a real breakthrough. Perhaps the GX and GM will come into one line, and then Panny only leave two body lines, GXM and GH 🙂
You are asking for an improved GM1 which is fine but that’s not what the GX7 is about at all. Completely missing the picture here.
tell it to panasonic…what’s it all about Alfie?
I’d guess that is the direction they will go in. Add an EVF to the EM1, make it a bit bigger and fuse the GX and GM.
copy the em10 and add a tilt/swivel screen and pdaf.
Since Panasonic and Oly focus on high-end, high-profit products, the GX series should become the de-facto photography tool of the Lumix G series. GH series is focused on video, even though it’s capable of taking great stills. I didn’t expect a GX7 this year, actually. It should have a two year cycle same as GH series.
As a current owner, my only big wish is bigger EVF that’s better suited for wearing glasses. They could reduce the size of the screen to make it fit into a same size camera body. Grip size is perfect. Controls are very good, although I find the mode dial to be a little to stiff. They shouldn’t just simply throw lots of stuff at the camera, but refine the control scheme and add more helpful customization options. For example, why is there no AUTO ISO option and why can’t I change exposure compensation in manual mode ? Why can’t I assign ISO to a dial, or put ISO on back dial press when I have Exposure comp on front dial? Dumb … I haven’t used it yet, but I hear Pentax has a very useful option to set a minimum shutter speed in certain modes. Why does the EVF info display not switch to portrait mode? Panasonic should add this stuff, so that photographers will use their cameras because they are great photography tools, not only because they are small and take great pictures. I wish they’d follow the Fuji way of constant refinement.
Nice to have features:
– Much better tracking AF, don’t care how they do it as long as it works with all lenses
– Weather sealing
– Better IBIS
– Obviously better IQ etc. is always welcome
> Why can’t I assign ISO to a dial?
This IMO reflects the fact that manufacturers haven’t yet absorbed the fact that latitude of usable ISO grew and now it can be used just as aperture and shutter speed to control the exposure.
ISO on a dial could simulate the dedicated “ISO priority mode”.
Grown? Grown to what? usable 800? No, don’t bother answering, it will be more bs in poor English…
Thanks for your enligtening input. /s
I said not to answer, can you at least read?
Grown: I’m telling you not to post anymore. Hope you can read
This poor camera barely delivers usable ISO 800. Nothing has changed.
Trolls this days are not even original.
“Panasonic and Oly focus on high-end, high-profit products”
LOL
…..and yet their “flagship” camera models are priced hundreds if not thousands cheaper that the “flagship” offerings from Canon and Nikon. “LOL”
Couldn’t agree more – the viewfinder is not exactly pleasant with glasses and the lack of Auto ISO combined with difficulties of quickly adjusting ISO makes the manual mode mostly useless for me.Whether such changes really would bring the masses to the GX line I don’t know, but I would certainly buy one.
Since basically all camera companies want to focus on high-end / premium products, this market is also getting smaller. And to convince a possible buyer, better specs cannot be the only incentive. So you are right, these small things won’t bring the masses, but it may entice a bigger chunk of enthusiasts.
1) Add the same magnification of the EVF as the Fuji XT1 or EM1
2) Add DFD and focusing on eye
That’s it! Your upgrade would be worthy!
Panasonic, your silent electronic shutter is absolutely great!
The silent shutter is a must have for street photography. When I had mine, that’s all I used.
Ask a competitive price for the GX line …
I would add global shutter and PDAF to the GX line. The 4K video can be exclusive to the GH line.
this is the 4k year, even some smartphones are capable to capture 4k now…
– Fixed, less protruding, Oled evf with high eyepoint for us aging folk.
– Best Oled screen available for bright light.
– Slight increase to grip ergonomics with bigger battery
– Similar size and price point.
Better EVF (just get the ones from epson…)
Add highlight warning in liveview (please update that via software to the gx 7)
Price it like the G6, and it’s almost perfect!
I don’t own a gx7, but is a really great camera, and it would be a pity if they don’t update that concept.
1. Better sensors (organic maybe)
2. More dials
3. Improved evf (bigger and with better refresh rate)
4. Faster af
5. Improved video specs
Weather sealing for a retro rangefinder style camera is not that important imho. Also improved ibis is not a priority because Pana lenses are fast and the zooms have ois. Adding weather sealing and better ibis (Oly kinda ibis) will dramatically inrease prices and some cameras will go in the A7 territory…
http://photobyandrei.wordpress.com/
1. Totally!
2. Not really necessary, 2 dials are more than enough when you can customize them and save in C1, C2 , C3
3. I don’t know if bigger is better but they should definitively make a 4:3 ratio EVF.
4. S-AF is already instant fast, they should incorporate the GH4 ‘s “Depth From Defocus” (DFD)
5. The GH line should remain the flagship video model, I don’t know what’s wrong with current codec specs but IBIS and mic input would be welcome,sure.
I’m curious to see what the future will bring. I’m happy with my cameras and won’t upgrade them with another m43 body until a new big step is done in IQ. Perhaps I need to wait until organic sensors come into play.
And keep an eye on the forthcoming Sigma dp Quattro.
In the meanwhile I’m enjoying my gear and lenses.
Same as me .
Won’t upgrade till I see a real breakthrough in GX .
Be careful , the next NEX will have a curve sensor , Pana should start to think about it .
Mmm I think it’s too early to see a curved sensor on an interchangeable lens camera. You need a new set of lenses. I think we will see this sensor tech on fixed lens cameras such as RX1 and on smartphones.
One new cameramodel per calendar-year is a bit absurd I think. Unless the released model is really shit.
Dynamic range, that’s all it needs. Other than that, features are already superb.
FullHD@120p & 720p240.
Thank you very much.
The GX7 was / is a huge step forward for me (coming from the unimpressive GF2). I now have a tool that is on par with APS-C equipment regarding ISO performance and – surprisingly – I have a bigger issue with ‘too much light’ rather than ‘too little light’ (I only use prime lenses).
Rather than raving too much about this well engineered product I would like to criticize the incredibly convoluted approach Panasonic has taken in the GPS domain. It looks like this:
1) Sync time between smartphone app and camera.
2) Ensure the smartphone screen is locked (this prevents the app from being stopped by mistake).
3) Hope that the app is actually recording coordinates (there is no indication whatsoever).
4) Carry the smartphone in such a way that it actually can receive a GPS signal (I often find myself holding the cam + the smartphone at the same time…)
5) Start shooting pictures.
6) Send GPS data to the camera (of course, one has to establish a WIFI connection before that).
7) Turn off WIFI.
8) Go to the Play menu and have the camera embed the coordinates into at least those pictures for which coordinates are available (it’s hard to achieve 100% if there is no indication if coordinates are actually recorded). This process is time and battery intensive.
**
Having just come back from a fairly long US trip I must say that I have preferred my better half’s very heavy FF equipment for the mere fact that the ridiculously expensive Nikon GPS receiver is an add-on that simply works and shows me if a signal is received. IQ-wise I like both cams and when it comes to portability I will not look back having made the change to m43.
@ Panasonic: the GX line is now state.of-the-art with only two shortcomings (GPS, lack of video IBIS). Sort them out and I *will* buy the next model.
It’s not on par with any APS-C. You might learn some photog tho, because you now have some more control. GX7 is Panasonic’s entry level proposition with some degree of control.
WHAT !? Entry level ? WTF are you talking about? stop reading forum posts and go handle one in real life, there’s nothing entry level about it, especially not the IQ. Is it equal to FF’s IQ ? of course not, but is the hassle of lugging around a FF camera (and lenses ) worth that IQ when the difference is imperceptible across practically every display medium (screens, print, social media) ?
Enough lies nerdie…
Give it Auto ISO in Manual mode! That won’t make it stand out, but it will at least fix a serious flaw preventing me from buying it…
Yes, this is the basic. Panasonic should address the basic first.
The addition of Auto ISO in manual mode (and ideally a more glasses friendly viewfinder) would make me buy one in a heartbeat!
This is nothing on stats and specs, but there is something I like about higher end cameras that feels built like a tank. This is extra weight and price I’d care for, should a new GX have such build quality that matches the Nocticron.
I read here and there about making it as small as the GM. No! Please no. There is already the GM for that. Current GX7 form factor is just fine. Its interface and number of physical controls is just fine. An iteration would do better than a complete redesign of a formula that isn’t broken.
A 1000 times this !
Pany shouldn’t change anything phisically speaking, the only FEW drawbacks of the camera are mostly firmware issues, otherwise the only real improvement should be a new sensor technology, that’s it, just don’t mess with the design or pholosophy of the camera, do not repeat the same mistake they did with the GF1!
This is a great little camera. What panasonic should do however if they really think they need to shake things up is make a mini version of it. Basically you’d be looking at a GM-1 sized body with the manual controls and viewfinder of a GX-7. Add to it Panasonic’s impressive 1080p 10-bit from the GH4 and you’d have winner written all over it.
Not going to happen, but a guy can dream.
Have you handled a GM1 in real life ? there’s no way Panasonic, or anyone else, could fit that much stuff in such a tiny body, at least not without heavily compromising the ergonomics of the camera (even with LF1 EVF).
That’s a good new for me. It means that they’ve known what people want.
We want something new, useful, and significant improvement, such as IQ performance and IBIS.
Enable IBIS with all lenses, in photo and video mode. better EVF resolution, mic jack.
Panasonic should focus on the GM, GX and GH line of cameras. I own the G6 and love it, but would have preferred the GX7. But since the GX7 is missing a mic jack I didn’t get it. Better stills in JPG would be a fantastic feature as well. Thanks.
I own a GX7 and the quality of still photos is already fantastic. I am getting some of best photos I have ever taken.
It’s an oft repeated mantra that there is some shortcoming in image quality on Panasonic cameras in general. Usually the plainants either don’t own a GX7 and hence have precious little experience to draw from when they post their carpings, or they are already using Panasonic sensors in their Olympus cameras. The GX7 has a state of the art sensor and is GREAT for video.
Just trying to be balanced. 🙂
I think that the GX7 and GM1 are a great step in the right direction for Panasonic. Having shot the GH3 and now the G6 I can see that the newer sensors produce better images, meaning better high ISO detail, better color and overall better IQ. Jpgs from the GH3 nd G6 sometimes look like really bad video grabs. I shoot Fuji X-E2 and the IQ is very different and much better in terms of depth and color rendition, but the Panasonic cameras are soooo much more fun to use. Just my $0.02.
Sounds good to me. I have the same cameras that you have and I concur with your findings (I do not have the X-E2 and would like to at least use one or the X100s). I don’t have any issues with the GH3 but I do intend to sell it and move up to the GH4. I do shoot video every chance I get.
Organic sensor (ie a piece of plastic somewhere)
8K video
Don’t forget to write “pro” on it.
Bigger EVF. It should at least match the size of the Sony NEX or Olympus E-M1 when used in 3:2 or 4:3.
I was going to buy the GX7, but when I tried it in store, I found the EVF was awful to use in normal photo aspect ratios of 4:3 or 3:2. My 2009 GH1 was noticeably bigger in those aspect ratios, and alongside Sony / Olympus there was no comparison.
The lesson is: Don’t recycle GH3 parts for a stills camera. We don’t want a 16:9 finder.
IBIS that works with video, a MIC jack, and a screen should that tilts 180 degrees.
I have a GX7 and really like it. But I would love it if it had:
– A significantly better EVF and eyecup. Also the swivel is just unnecessary when you have swiveling screen.
– Bigger grip plus optional battery grip to make it bigger.
– IBIS in video
– Less delay between turning on and being able to start recording.
– Video territory switch.
– Uncompressed HDMI out or option for higher bitrates.
– A sleeker look. The Sony a6000 looks a lot nicer for example.
– Keep everything else the same.
You seem more concerned with video and less so with size – why didn’t you get a GH3 (or wait for the GH4?). I do agree that the swivel EVF is gimmicky, but the quality of the EVF itself is pretty amazing. Big step up from my GH2 and better IMO than my friend’s EM1. They do apparently make a larger eyecup for the GX7: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/998484-REG/panasonic_dmw_ec1_eyecup.html
Indeed, it sounds to me like what you really wanted a GH camera in the first place. There’s no point in making the GX line better at video than the flagship GH camera. Also, the tilting EVF is not gimmicky at all, maybe you’re not used to it yet but with time you learn to appreciate it, just ask any PEN user, I found my VF-2 on my E-PL1 to be essential, having it being built in on my GX7 is just that much better.
I guess I just don’t see the point of the swivel… there are plenty of times that I want the camera to be at waist level or ground level, and I use the tilting back screen for that, but I never want the camera to be only a couple of inches lower than my head – I just squat or bend down a little in that situation. Seems like more effort to pop the thing up than to just lower myself a tad.
The DMW-EC1 does a great job well worth buying
One overlooked factor in the discussions has been what the competition is. For starters the GX7 is much more like the all metal NEX7 which was still more expensive. The primary reason Sony is able to see the A6000 for much less is it uses a plastic body not an all metal one. So perhaps Pany should have two versions of the GX line one plastic bodied like the A6000 replacing the G series and the existing metal GX7 with the improved predictive AF and they should use the same compact 12-32 kit lens as the GM1 again better to compete against the Sony one which is not as good quality. It is surprising to me that the GX7 has not done better in sales but the slow rollout and lack of availability were factors which hurt when the competition was getting out their new competing models and the reviewers did very little to test it and point out its merits. As for IBIS I thought that both the EM5 and GX5 relied on digital IS for video? Some reports I have read the GX7 IBIS is very good. Pany’s marketing practices have not helped as they could have boosted the GX7 sales and exposure much more with a price cut earlier rather than later.
“What should Panasonic do to improve the GX…?”
Same question facing Olympus. The differences in IQ among the GH4, Gx7, E-M10, E-M5 are trivial and everyone knows it. Owners of the Gx7, E-M1and E-M5 have no real reason to upgrade (beyond obsessive consumerism) until the next iteration of 4/3 sensors show marked improvement over the current crop. The E-M10 to me was Olympus admitting they had nothing to offer at the moment beyond a lower price. This needs to change.
Also, if Panny develops a flagship sensor, put it in their own camera, not Olympus’ as they did with the E-M1.
Nothing to offer but a lower price is still a valuable offering.
The E-M10 is currently top of the heap for me if I was going to upgrade. Having a compact body, well-sorted ergonomics, a responsive EVF, highly effective IBIS (despite the simpler mechanism), auto ISO in manual, and focus peaking make it the perfect body to use legacy lenses with.
If the IQ wasn’t only marginally better than my GX1, I would have a hard time resisting, and if I was a first-time buyer I would be all over it.
Good point. However since APS-C camera’s have the same problem(and not offering something substantial extra, on the contrary) that’s no reason to switch either. No wonder the whole camera business is not doing so well.
Guess we have to wait till new sensor tech is available to make things interesting again for photographers(videographers do have some exciting stuff going on).
I love my GX7. The one thing Panasonic could to to make me really lust after an upgrade would be to redesign the software interface from scratch, with an eye to usability and obsessive attention to detail that matches what Apple puts into its iOS software.
Same goes for Olympus. Increasingly these are little touchscreen computers that happen to have large sensors and glass strapped to the front of them. If these devices want to remain relevant in the face of competition from smartphones, they need to match their polish and usability not just in hardware design, but in software too.
I have been a panny user since they began making digital cameras and I really like their UI, but never use the touchscreen. Funny world
It’s interesting, despite the dated resistive touchscreen on my GX1 (which turns out to be a huge benefit in the winter while wearing gloves), I can’t imagine buying a camera that didn’t let me tap the touch-screen for focus selection anymore. It’s such a no-brainer, and Panasonic’s implementation is so good, that doing anything else just seems kludgey and awkward.
I must be a Luddite the first thing I do is turn of the touch screen I hate it with a passion lol
I’ve just bought the GX7 a month ago and love it, the area’s so far I feel should/could be improved would be:
– The EVF needs to be larger.
– Be able to turn the eye sensor off completely, I have blutack over it, the delay ruins any fast use.
– Grip could be better designed but isn’t terrible, just make it a bit more ergonomic, it’s a step in the right direction.
– Make the body more out of metal, but that would likely go against the price point and target market, though I imagine it would open a totally different market up.
– IBIS in video.
– Weather resistance would be nice.
I’m still getting used to it, I really love it, it’s basically 80% exactly the camera I have been waiting for, i’ve come from an EP2 with VF2 and loved the tilting, I really find it helps me looking down into a viewfinder, I was waiting for this camera, now just fix a few things and it’ll be perfect.
To be fair, I think you’d find it exceedingly difficult to make the body more out of metal, since the entire thing is made of a magnesium casting…
http://shop.panasonic.com/images/product/2013/dmc-gx7ks/GX7_Magnesium_body_slant_700.jpg
Thank you for setting the record straight. A picture is worth 1,000 words.
yeah, most people post their thought without really doing their research or even owning the camera. I’ve had my GX7 for 4 months but spent about that much doing research about it. I already knew which Fn button configuration I would use even before buying it.
That’s because you are a nerd, and write in forums when others get laid.
coming from a guy who’s pathologically obsessed with a single anonymous poster over a niche website across the internet, Get an F-ing life dude! Oh and btw, you just described literally everyone on this site and every other website with comments feature so congratulations, your IQ just reached a new low.
Oh nice, it’s more metal than I thought.
I own a em5. But if I hadn’t, I would buy a GX7. I like the modern looks and the tiltable EVF.
since the GX7 has a smaller and perhaps inferior sensor to the Sony a6000 and the Fuji APC’s
I’d say the GX7 needs a breakthrough in sensor tech / performance to compete with larger sensor cams.
GX 7 must have an Audio In, Bigger EVF with a nice soft padded -removable eye-cup.
The GX7 came in with a wow, and in 2 months Sony, Fuji kind of made us all forget the GX7 especially since it had the same price at the competitors.
If the GX7 body came in at $500 i’d be out shooting with it right now
I bought the GX7 with 20mm for $750 new, I didn’t even have to search around… it’s cheap, what is everyone going on about. I’m in Australia though, but the US is usually cheaper!
It’s not cheaper here. It’s not $500 yet. Fuji Xe-1’s are selling for $350 used and are a better camera..(and I’m a Panasonic M 4/3rds guy)..
The XE-1s have a better sensor if you prefer high ISO smoothness to low ISO sharpness, and obviously it gives you more DOF control. But that’s really the only way the XE-1 is better. It’s much less responsive, AF is poor, and is missing a lot of the features that make the Panasonics nice to use.
Low ISO sharpness on the Fuji RAW’s are excellent I think too many mFT guys grossly exaggerate the Fuji softness based on default JPEG output. The X-E1 had a firmware update that improved its performance greatly.
Though I enjoy the video performance and lens selection on my mFT gear unless there is a serious step up in image quality in the next year I will seriously consider ditching it. Everyone is different but personally I hate the high ISO performance of my mFT gear { GX7 & E-M1] and I never shoot above 800. Though my main issue with the current mFT sensors is the poor shadow and sky noise at even base ISO
In Europe the GX7 with 20mm is around 1000 euros, way too much …
Amateur camera market is dead – so G, and GF lines. GX would never be good enough for enthusiasts because of its smaller sensor, so it can’t really compete with with Fuji X, or NEX on photography. AF speed, FPS are not enough – Nikon 1. GX line has to either:
– have the same (video)features as GH.
– offer some unique(not known) features that take advantage of camera and lenses size for: macro, street photography, travel: external evf(like Google Glass, can be pulled from camera and attached to glasses frame), tilt&shift mount, macro 5x, strange, specialty, but cheap lenses(like sigma DN line, or Pentax Limiteds).
So m43 cannot compete with Fuji and NEX due the size of the sensor… that was funny.
Indeed they can’t compete with eg. the new Sony a6000 sensor, which does much better on high ISO
Of course they can ‘compete’. Don’t be ridiculous. Oh, wait: the Sony a6000 can’t ‘compete’ with the Sony A7. Out the door with it!
Haha.. no fast lenses… better be good in high iso.
And then he includes the nikon 1, oh the irony!
external evf ? tilt&shift mount ? built in macro ? That sounds more like a Christmas wishlist, next thing he’ll ask for the Gx7 to do his taxes. Oh, btw, that silly google glass idea is totally unnecessary now that you can CONTROL and SEE what the camera is doing through wifi and smartphone connection. It seem like the majority of people on this thread have NEVER handled a GX7 in their lives.
They will always lose to APS, as in 4/3 DSLR times. Olympus constantly had to introduce features first, that later were used in C&N cameras, to stay afloat. m43 had time advantage which was almost wasted because Olympus sticking to Pens, and not so fast lens roadmap. OM-D, GHs, (and BlackMagic) saved the day. Meanwhile Fuji introduced whole line of cameras, and great lenses. And Sony is in good position to threaten C&N with its aggressive moves: low price of A7, or super sensitive A7s.
Photography enthusiasts, now, have more choice than ever in mirrorless cameras. Which cameras offer the best bang for stepping up phone camera owners?
Panasonic advantage lays in video, but it has some schizophrenic moves by trying to offer both video and stills, by that it let BMPCC to happen, which is only video. That is why I suggested that GX line should have the same features as GH, just in different body. Or move into some exotic lenses that other manufacturers won’t follow.
Fuji, good for stills, no decent video, few lenses, few choices, not exactly small. Sony, few lenses, no fast ones, terrible menus, video is so so. Both embryonic systems. I’ll stick with m43, the best system ever… at least for my taste. 🙂
Also, m43 is not fast enough, but nikon 1 is. Oh now the sensor size doesn’t matter. Mmm… more likely you don’t know what you’re talking about.
So a small sensor is fine in micro 4/3, and it is able to produce on par with larger formats.
But smaller formats are stupid and can in no way compete with larger formats.
You said that. Also it’s your friend majgr that have problem with size. Take a look at a sensor table to see how close m43 is to APSC. Saying one is small and the other is large is stupidity.
Maybe it is stupidity, but in that way m43 and APSC are perceived. Look at forums. This perception is being caught, and maintained by people browsing for a camera.
Yes, Nikon 1 is faster, and that didn’t save it. What other sensor size is in line next?
You are a snarky troll. Go away.
True, and I fear it is too late to save the day. M43 has been ailing to long.
Give the GX7 a dedicated EV button rather than being built into the rear dial. Give it a front dial and a more powerful flash for better wireless connectivity. Speaking of wireless connectivity, let’s make all Panasonic cameras radio wireless rather than IR. If radio would take up too much room, stick with IR on the GX7 and just give us better flash to fire the optical sensor on Panasonic strobes. All other Panasonic cameras should be wireless radio across the board.
The GX7 has a front dial plus the rear click dial ( which I love), already…
I’m curious, tell me where you see a font dial on the GX7.
It’s kind of, well, round the shutter release button.
I should have been more specific. I’m referring to a Command like dial right below the shutter button, similar to the rear, back dial, right upper corner. Like it is on gh3 and gh4.
Again, that’s exactly what it is. what benefit/difference does it make for you if it’s below the shutter button instead of around it ? it serves the same (if not more) function(s). Go to your local camera store and handle one before making any judgements.
Wow, please accept my apology. I just picked up my new GX7 and see that you are indeed correct. I stand corrected and happy to know it’s there. Sorry for the confusion and I appreciate your patience in me finally figuring this out. Does anyone know if it is possible to set this to EV adjustment via custom menu?
Good on you for making a sincere apology when mistaken. Courteous, and appreciated. cheers
I’m glad there’s still civilized posters on this website, don’t worry about it, I just checked and it is indeed possible, you can by default press the rear dial for EV comp (on P mode, at least) or go to the custom menu/dials and set the front dial too. This camera is REALLY customizable, right up there with any Olympus or Ricoh camera.
I have a GX7, and it is a knurled dial right around the shutter button. If you go to the Panasonic product page, they have a closer up view of the top of the camera, and you can get a clear picture of it.
A mic input and that new organic bsi sensor please!
weather sealing would be nice too, but i think that would be not price effective.
If it had IBIS for video I would be interested. But I prefer a GH1/G6 style body. Why update the GX7 this year and not the G6? The GX7 is newer and has a new sensor, no much need for an update. We now have a very expensive DSLR-style camera with the GH4 and 2 range-finder style camera GX7 and GM1. I think the first that need an update is the G6.
this is not about update of GX7, but about future of whole GX line.
Thanks for clarifying…
Smaller (pocketable) size (it might require an in-body pop-up evf), 5 axis ibis, weather sealing, Fuji-like manual controls, upgrade to the latest sensor/engine, preferably upgraded to inclute hybrid cross-type auto-focus and global e-shutter. Coupled with a faster (e.g. 2.8-4), longer (at least 12-45) high grade weather-sealed pancake zoom.
The GH4 already has unique feats, 4K, 12fps, 200k shots cycle, etc.
So, why not a GX camera with IBIS working in video and the GH3 video feats – or at least the 1080p 50mbps IPB? It could even have Weather Sealing, but at this point GH3 video feats wouldn’t kill the GH line but it would certainly add to the GX value.
Also, this way, Panasonic could even dump the G and/or GF series. The GF loses value so quickly that I’m not sure it’s not worth keeping it. As the G series has a bit of video oriented crowd, if the GX was to have a GH3-like video feats, they could also get rid off it and rethink the G and/or GF.
Anyway, a GX with GH3 video feats wouldn’t hurt the GH4 but I think a lot of people would become interested in the GX series.
ibis, better and more external dials, improve evf a bit more, improve visual styling… thats all i can think of. i dont really think theres anything WRONG with the gx7.
What Panasonic really should do is invest strongly in Sensor technology, after ASA 800 you considerably loose detail in the current crop of m4/3 sensors compared to X-Trans for example. I’m primarily a video shooter, and while it’s nice to have good video features in your photo camera of choice, I strongly believe that they need to have a dedicated high end photo line, otherwise they’ll always compromise both ends.
Ditto. The GX7 is already almost perfect, the only real improvable aspects can easily be solved through firmware updates. Only a quantum leap in performance would make a significant enough difference to make current GX7 owners upgrade. In other words, they should wait for organic sensors and global shutter before even thinking of releasing a GX9
For sure. I’m not even talking about Upgraders, I’ve been using the Canon 5D MK III for professional photo shoots in the past few weeks, but, although I love the IQ, I prefere the GH3 with the wifi and evf that I’ve been briging along as a B cam… but, again, high ISO performance is very subpar compared to everything else aps-c and above, and I like high ISO to capture practical lighting on locations, it captures more lighting subtleties then using low ISO.
So now I’m in the market for a new camera and I have to decide between the Fujifilm XT1 and whatelse? You know what I mean? cheers.
Nonsense claims on high-ISO vs APS-C, mate.
Make that ISO3200, and bear in mind that Fuji massage their raw output hence illusory pixel-peeping comparisons.
The difference exists — it has to — but realists won’t exaggerate it.
It’s not a matter of photo geeking pixel peeping, it’s a matter of having a usable model facial expression on a full body shot. Last shoot I did, was very low key, shot with the 5D 1600 Asa, f2.8 or f4 full body with a 35mm lens. it’s was just enough information to be accepted by the client. With the GH3, same lens, with speed booster, it was disappointing. I haven’t tried the Xt1 yet, but from tests I see around the web, it looks much cleaner. All I’m saying is, work your sensors, let them speak louder! With the speed booster and a good lens, sensor size doesn’t matter anymore, so keep evolving the tech. Design wise they are nailing it!
5 axis IS
120fps Full HD/ 240fps 720p
tiltable screen
mic input
less rolling shutter
2 slots for memory cards
time lapse support for video
touch zoom while replaying videos
voice commands (for setting ISO,Shutter speed,etc with voice,for remote shooting)
lmaybe separate menu buttons for video and photo
customizable “quick menu”
smooth reverse playback/fast forward in video replay
So… better video, then?
A couple of your list already exist on the GX7: tiltable screen, and custom quick menu.
Speedy tracking focus for video and burst shooting and other moving subjects. Only reason I’d buy the Sony over a GX7.
You speak as someone who hasn’t already invested in any lenses. Most people who have lenses already aren’t going to switch between camera brands just because of a new gee-whiz feature.
I imagine that depends on how important that new feature was to what you shoot
That is why Nikon had a gem because of 60 fps, and buffer for it. This has been used to create 4k 1s videos from RAW, if they only let it to be 15s…
A fully articulated screen, that’s really all that’s keeping me from buying the GX7. I shoot architecture, from waist height to above my head, both in portrait and landscape mode. I want a camera with an EVF, IBIS and an orientation sensor (using G3 now), but there is no camera that combines those. I’ve had an articulated screen on a canon a800, samsung ex1 and now the g3 and it’s something I could hardly miss..
Just use the remote wifi function with your smartphone, it’s even more versatile and useful than being limited to a built-in screen.
Good idea, need to test this.. With the articulated screen at odd angles it’s rather difficult to frame a shot perfectly, a bit like driving backwards with a caravan if you get my point. The lines sometimes move on the wrong direction.. No idea how intuitive that works with a separate screen, but I need to try this for sure!
If you are shooting architecture would a tripod not be the best option for image quality ,The subject is static and not going anywhere
Sure, but I really enjoy framing a composition on the fly, sometimes hanging out of a window,.. Also, composing on a tripod is a lot more time consuming, less fun. I’m an architect, so my picture taking time is limited. Same when traveling, can’t keep the family waiting while I take two hours to photograph a building…
So Ibis would be great for low light shots or when stopping down and for keeping the iso down to maintain DR. And a better sensor would help with the DR in high contrast scenes.
I’m not in a hurry for a new body, but I was hoping for a g7 with Ibis. Or a gx8 with an articulated screen..
The trouble with a fully articulated screen is that it has some advantages and some *disadvantages* against a flip-out screen. It’s not a 100% positive change. I have a GX7 and my wife has a G3. *Sometimes* I wish I had her screen, but *often* I am glad of the quick and snappy usability of the GX7 screen.
An idea for the future of Panasonic GF/G/GX
– Combine the good ergonomics of the Panasonic G6 and the beatiful design of the GX7 in a new GX camera. Give the GX a grip like the Sony A6000: A little bigger and with the shutterbutton on top of the grip.
– Produce two versions of this GX camera: a premium one with a high quality weather sealed body and a cheaper one with a plastic body (Like Apple do with the iPhone C).
All other hardware is the same.
Panasonic can disable some features in the software of the cheaper body (for example slowe burst rate).
Benefits:
– Panasonic can get rid of the GF and G line.
– Panasonic can produce large numbers of hardware.
– Panasonic doesnt lose the entry level market.
What do you think?
With all due respect, I think that camera would be a travesty IMHO. Merging the GX and G line into a semi-dslr body would literally kill all the appeal of the GX line and would definitively solve nothing for the G line. It makes no sense, it would be history repeating itself, like when Panasonic changed the focus of the GF line, from the GF1 to the lame GF2/3. The decision from Panasonic of stopping the GF and G lines has more to do with the redundancy of said lines with respect to the more successful GM and GH lines respectively. The GX line on the other hand has no equal within the lineup, and more importantly, it’s the only model directly targeted at the faux-RF market (A6000, XE2, etc), not even Olympus has an equivalent model (no, the E-P5 is not equivalent at all, not when everyone else has an EVF)
Nex-7, Nex-6, A6000: All with the shutterbutton on top of the grip.
You have more room for controls and better ergonomics.
WHAT “decision from Panasonic of stopping the GF and G lines”??? You are taking rumours as facts.
I’m not even talking about rumors, I’m just replying to lcv`s idea about merging the GX and G line, it’s right up there, take a look.
You surely have too much time on your hands.
Take a long look at yourself buddy, you’ve taken the time to come up with at least 10 different logins in the past month just to troll back at every single one of my comments because you have sand up your vagina about me making you look like a fool for infesting this site with idiotic FF and APSC spam trolling. What are you ? 12 ? I could change my own login and you would loose your daily entertainment while I would still be able to post without you noticing, how about that ? now, do your family a favor and kill yourself, you know your mommy doesn’t love you that’s why you spend your life trolling here.
I am not interested in Full Frame anything. I prefer the M4/3 camera systems because of the innovations and reduced size of the gear. Having said that, I NEVER visit the forums dedicated to FF and really have no interest in what they say or do. I can’t imagine what would possess anyone to devote their entire existence to wrecking the conversations of others.
I have concluded that the Liars Brigade Troll who changes his login 50-100 times per day (including Sony Alpha Rumors) is probably a paid agent of Canon and is assigned to trashing these forums to suppress public enthusiasm for m4/3 and other camera makers, to give Canikon more time to rest on their laurels.
I can feel the Troll’s frustration in that there is NO conversation at Canon Watch. Never any interest or comment. He is undoubtedly lonely.
@”Produce two versions of this GX camera: a premium one with a high quality weather sealed body and a cheaper one with a plastic body” — isn’t that like having a GX and a GF?
5-axis video ibis, higher avchd nitrates (1080 25p/24p) and better dynamic range.
Amen to that! I’d buy that GX8 for sure.
Panasonic seems to prove itself my previous postings here: its m4/3 camera line isn’t selling too well, it isn’t really attractive (as opposed to Fuji X and OM-D). The current GH cameras are too fat to transport the notion of a compact system and are too video oriented. The biggest group of buying candidates, stills photographers haven’t really embraced the GH3, and it is not so likely that the GH4 will do it. The G line now abandoned, could have been a proper successor of the GH2 concept, but neither its cheap design nor it’s too simple control layout could convince the people.
That Panasonic also thinks to redesign the GX line is a bit surprising, but it also tells that the GX7 did not do as expected. It was Panasonic’s first attempt going retro, however, in that regard OM-Ds and Fujis showed a more appealing and popular design and control layout.
Since the G3 Panasonic constantly seems to “rethink” their cameras, mostly not too successful (see G3, GF2 and following, GH3).
GX7 is fantastic, no need to re-think. You don’t have to re-think cameras every single year. Just sell it for a couple of years with minor updates.
I do wish Panasonic would help it’s users maintain the relevancy of their products by practicing “continuous improvement”, such as firmware updates.
Give it weather sealing, improve the IBIS and enable IBIS in Video mode. Actually, the last point alone would be enough for me to buy one. The first camera that can combine the video capabilities of Pana with the IBIS perfomance of Oly in one body will be the mirrorless to rule them all.
I would like a GM2 with new IBIS 5axis + 4k video mode + new powerful sensor.
And some more small lenses and a viewfinder like in the Sony RX200
The only things to improve the GX7 that I can think of are:
– IBIS in video mode
– As always, better DR/high ISO noise from a 16MP sensor
– True multi-aspect ratio sensor
– Possible to add a grip to help the ergonomics with some of the larger lenses
– A better thumb rest
Other than that it’s a pretty darned excellent camera!
Totally agree
Honestly, this market is becoming saturated now, and trying to pull off a camera with “more” will not beat out “different”.
Panasonic essentially has a large chunk of the Video DSLR market, however some makers have stole some of their thunder in the mount, like blackmagic. Also look at the OMD users clamoring for Panasonic to introduce the IBIS in video…
So here would be my take, produce a fun interchangable lens camera that appeals to the instagram/lomo user… I know I know “not real photography”. Think of a fun cheap-ish body that allows the user to share directly from the camera to their favorite app either directly or via a hotspot. The crux of course is better in camera image control, have a slew of instagram style filters etc. for them to play with their images.
That is a mass market device. Lowest common denominator… They could use an older sensor and older parts, no need for cutting edge anything. Just make it fun. I think asia might snap that puppy up.
For the enthusiast… well… That is a dwindling market. But one can see a fun device creating a new breed of photographer… But seriously, what do I know, what does anyone here know? I am simply putting 1 and 1 together. A small, connected, fun device for a reasonable pricepoint that would allow social sharers to stand out to their peers.
Phones is used as lomo/Instagram now. However, there is demand for high quality filters – applications like Camerabag still exists.
While the phones do have these applications, tha major issue with cameras is the delay with sharing and when one moves to a “nice” camera from a phone. The individual is expected to do all the work on a computer at additional time expense both prepping it and delaying the instant gratification of sharing.
So give them what they want. 🙂 it is a rather simple process.
Please everybody — don’t be ridiculous about ‘better sensor technology’ being a need for this line. *Everybody* wants better sensor tech: Canon 5D3 users want 47 MP, D800 users want ISO 100,000, blah blah.
Take it as a given. Also take it as a given that it won’t make any difference to *relative* ratings against bigger sensors, because they will have that ‘new tech’ too!
So, it is not a specific request for this line. Nor even for this format. Move on.
well if the sensor is smaller and the price is the same or higher than the competition who have bigger and superior sensors, then it’s “game set match” for Fuji Sony and whomever comes along with great APS-C system. I like panasonic because I’m used to it (don’t underestimate the comfort of your old tools) and I have invested in the lenses for it. If I did not own so much glass for it, I’d surely go to the Sony or Fuji.
New users will probably have no reason to choose M4/3rds when the others are better and have the same price. So if Panny can improve the sensor tech (and they’ve been working on it) then maybe they can attract the new business they need.
GX tag line – focusing on the essences of photography
Features of GX line
– performance (speed, buffer, image quality, battery life)
– masculine (rugged, look and feel like a tank)
– traditional qualities meet leading innovation (clue Fuji x series)
– IBIS (for use with legacy lenses)
– customisable (grips, straps, bags etc.)
3 tier
– weatherproof SLR style, clue Fuji X-T1 with tilt & swivel screen
– weatherproof rangefinder
– entry level rangefinder
Lense lineup
– all weather sealed, no built-in OIS, sold in following kits
– 28mm, 35mm, 50mm F1.4 primes (individually & with 3 lense bundle)
– 10-25mm F3.3 zoom
– 12-60mm F3.3-F4 zoom
– lenses should have aperture rings and distance scale for manual focusing
– Ditch the tilting EVF and have more recessed eyecup
– Bundle with quality software e.g. Lightroom (GX as enthusiast line)
– no traditional mode dial but retain the C1, C2, C3 custom settings with a drive mode dial
p.s. I owe both a Panasonic GX7 and Fuji X-E1 and although I can’t fault the operations and almost clinical thoroughness of the GX7, I really enjoy the simplicity and pureness of the X-E1 especially with thumbgrip and soft release added.
I’d like to add:
GH – pro, utilitarian, video
GX – enthusiast, purist, “inspire ownership”
GM – trendy, fun, accessible, creative
As a GX7 owner and user. I contend that the GX7 is fine as it is and doesn’t really need a redesign (although some firmware upgrades would increase the GX7 longevity).
What would be more beneficial for Panasonic, I believe, would be to make a APSc with a fixey Pana/Leica lens and make it THE Street Shooter’s dream camera. Like Fuji’s X100s with bells on.
Such a camera would provide Panasonic’s user base an opportunity to use a larger sensor, and also provide another “toy” for the consumerist. My guess is that it would sell (even outside of the M4/3 community) better than any re-issue of the GX7.
Just a thought from a fellow “consumerist.”
Keep improving the video capabilities.
To me the GX7 is fantastic I own too of them. To me it does not need any major overhaul. I already also own Fuji X and Nex7 and 5n and Olympus Omd 5 and 1.
I hope there will be an update So what to improve. Add phase detection sensors for faster AF on fast moving objects. To match the A6000. 5axis in body image stabilization Of course if possible improved low light ability Watercolor and Illustration filters like in the Sony RX100.
To me the GX7 is the most fun to use Mirrorless camera with it’s many features like 9 fn buttons an C1 C2 C3 etc. maybe an option to interchange the grip so the current grip and a deeper grip like the one on the Omd1.
Sure hope Panasonic will update the already fantastic GX7
“What should Panasonic do to improve the GX series and make it a real challenger for the competition like the Fuji X-E2 and Sony A6000?”
It competes well with them. X-E2 and A6000 have a high ISO advantage proportional to larger sensor surface, but apart from that, almost nothing else better than the Panasonic. GX7 has better selection of lenses (that are smaller), IBIS, tiltable EVF, better video, higher flash sync speed, lower price, with everything else being pretty much on par with the Fuji and the Sony. It is also much smaller than X-E2 with better grip.
I don’t think GX8 should be too much different. For the price, the only improvements I can think of are:
-an incremental sensor and processor upgrade (as every new generation of camera should have) that would bring better high ISO and DR
-a beefier grip, similar to A6000
-a bit shorter, under 120mm
-better IBIS, similar to E-M10 IBIS for example
-stronger flash, at least GN10 @ ISO100
-ISO100
-other usual smaller IQ, video, performance and ergonomic upgrades
There are very few flaws with GX7, the greatest one being as stated by dpreview it was a year late to the market. No need for any major rethink or anything that would raise its price substantially.
There already is ISO125, you have to activate it, though.
Yeah, but no ISO100. Not a big deal, I know, but still…
native iso 100, not extended like in current oly cameras and long bulb mode, 2min limit in bulb is a joke and practically useless for any night photography.
And please make it so that it auto switches to ISO 100 when the shutterspeed tops out at 1/4000. That would be useful especially when ISO 100 isn’t native like on the Olympus cameras.
you can use “infinite” bulb with the iphone app
I don’t think it matters what they do to the camera. There is no feature they can add or upgrade they can make that will change anything. The fundamental problem is that most people don’t buy cameras and just use their phone. On top of that, the people who do buy cameras do not buy so many of them.
I bought a GF2 way back when. I didn’t upgrade it until just now when I got a GH4. Looking at this GH4 now, I can’t even imagine when I will upgrade it. As someone who isn’t an actual professional photographer, what more could I possibly need beyond this? I don’t even need more lenses beyond the ones I already have. I guess I might be tempted if they update the 100-300 so I can take better pics at sporting events, but that’s about it.
Making a camera that sells is next to impossible. Someone who already owns a camera has to look at your new camera and be convinced that it will be so significantly superior in some way to what they already have. That superiority isn’t necessarily image quality. Maybe someone who only has big cameras will be intrigued by the GM1. Maybe someone who shoots video will be excited by the GH4 4K abilities that few other cameras have. Without a huge differentiating factor, the only person who will buy your camera is maybe someone who has a very old version of the same model.
A new model every year is just not sustainable. Only come out with a new model when you can make a huge leap. Otherwise, just keep supporting and selling the cameras you have now.
Unfortunately, camera manufacturers are following the same costly business model that the automakers used. Every product got at least cosmetic updates every year. It is neither necessary or sustainable.
I say unnecessary because Volkswagen sold the same style product (VW Bug) for close to 40 years with only minor updates. Unsustainable because the Big 3 American auto companies which initiated that practice all hit the wall.
Have fun with that GH4. I hope to get mine in early June.
Headphone jack. Bigger VF. Global E shutter.
“What should Panasonic do to improve the GX series and make it a real challenger for the competition like the Fuji X-E2 and Sony A6000?”
Real 5-axis IBIS working in video, weather-sealing and good EVF without tearing. Oh wait, it is E-M5, 2+ years already. 🙂
“What should Panasonic do to improve the GX series and make it a real challenger for the competition like the Fuji X-E2 and Sony A6000?”
Honestly, Panasonic lost the lead with the GX series. The GF1 was breakthrough, but they let it cool off from there. Now, the GX7 is a “me too” product that has features of it’s competitors but is late to the party (om-d’s are the current m43 leaders).
GX needs a feature that makes it stand alone. My vote is for: a true optical rangefinder with a focusing patch. NOBODY other than Leica does this for digital.
Nobody does manual focus like Leica. Rangefinder focusing has become obsolete.
If they added phase-detection, took out the AA filter and came up with a better way to change ISO when you’re shooting manual (maybe by clicking the rear dial), they’d have a rock solid camera. The stabilizer could be better, and the design could be cleaned up a little with harder lines, but the current gx7 is pretty great as is. The cameras aren’t really the problem, they need to fill the gaps in the lens line and market them better.
The only thing that might make me buy a new camera is on chip phase detection so I can focus my pro 43 lenses. The EM-1 is just too expensive for me and I’m still happy to use my old L10k DSLR.
As technology spreading,esp. everybody is using sony sensors, camera is really consumer goods now.
The new GX needs a single WOW factor, a thing to remember. Like:
EM5 – 5 axis stabilizer
GH4 – best video for the buck
X100 – style, hybrid view finder
X-T1 – THE best view finder
Looking back at GX7, it did all, but nothing really shining. I am sure it is a well balanced and good to use camera. But it lacks the one point pushes me to draw out my credit card. This also applies to the recent Sony A6000 and alike.
I like your line distinctions. Panasonic should push for a specific theme for each of its lines.
GM = omni presence is superb. The tagline could be along the lines of “the camera you will always have with you” and it should be complemented with a specific range of pancakes — 3 primes at f2.8 and a zoom at f4.0 should do it. Think Leica CL.
GX — for me should be more like a real rangefinder. Design is basically what’s selling the Fuji line. Sure it has great-sounding lenses that give very good IQ almost as a bonus (I argue that the f1.4 is what’s selling them more) and good JPEG engine (though I’m not a fan of the Fuji look). The GX should have equivalent 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm and 90mm lenses all in f1.4 or better. Think Leica M.
GH — built for video and no less. The body should be a container for the various add-ons that is inevitable for professional video shooting. The design should be different than other DSLRs. Think Leica R9 (which the latest G camera does a good job at imitating).
Their advertising should also be aspirational. Show the cameras being used by people that the target audiences could aspire to. Like, cool fashionable people having fun on the town with the GM. Serious film-makers shooting their budget movie with the GH. And serious journalists using the GX.
The GX7 is ugly for one thing. My GF1 looks much better. Give me a GF1 style with built in EVF, a distance scale, exposure compensation dial like on the Fuji’s, and aperture rings on the lenses- like the new Leica 15mm has. Get rid of that big ugly grip, offer an optional grip with Arca grooves on the base plate. Perhaps a shutter speed dial instead of the mode dial.
Oh, I guess I just described the Fuji XE2.
You don’t have to get political. Everyone here knows that you are a FF flameboy/troll and that you would never buy a Fuji nor a Panasonic nor anything else we discuss.
Hey Troll, isn’t it strange that no one here ever mentions FF anything? It’s like obviously we don’t care about what you are selling. Yet you cannot live a day with being consumed about other people’s camera choices that you cannot control.
Sounds like a sucky little life. At least it’s YOUR sucky little life and not ours.
Glad to see I’m not the only one getting sick and tired of these trolls. There should be a way to eliminate their post with enough down votes (5-10).
In any case, Ben gazie seems like the tipical troll who’s never handled nor read about the GX7 in his life, I very much doubt he has ever ownerd a GF1 because the GX7 is literally a GF1 with built in EVF at heart, the dials already operate as EV comp as well as shutter dial. I do agree with the interchangeable grip idea though, otherwise everything else is just nonsense.
A few things would help:
Improved viewfinder–no optical weirdness
Improved white balance
Improved color
The thing that would make the most difference is to make and sell great lenses (at reasonable prices), instead of the software-correction-enabled lenses that Panasonic loves. They’re apparently making huge profits from each lens to make up for the lack of volume.
FujiFilm is selling cameras because of their lenses and they’ve developed a great lineup in a short amount of time, keeping mediocrity to a minimum.
Fuji does as much software correction as Pany, it’s an unavoidable trait of mirrorless due to short flange distances (unless you use curved sensors for tricky angled light). I do agree in the price aspect of your argument though, if they hope to reach a wider, casual audience they should lower their prices, at least enough to be competitive against canikon, otherwise it looks like you’re paying more for less in the eye of the common consumer.
Re thinking is a very bad phrase for a company to state. It means that it isn’t doing so well. so, I vote for Panasonic to re think marketing instead of re thinking tech. For a start, Make these cameras available to see in person so that people know they exist. Nikon and Canon don’t have to market as much because of their long history. Getting people to buy a good product is takes much more than adding better tech that “most consumers” don’t even understand or care about.
A billion times this!
The Achilles heel of m4/3 has ALWAYS been marketing and advertisement, always. Pany and Oly would have far less trouble in the marketplace if they just put some proper effort into advertising their cameras. M4/3 has absolutely zero presence outside Asia and the internet, I’ve been to emerging economies where there’s an enormous potential for people to adopt a new system such as mirrorless and Pany and Olympus have absolutely no presence there, none. They should use their resources into a massive marketing campaign in the west. Internet buzz, camera expos and such just don’t cut it anymore, you need total brand recognition, and for that you need media presence and hands on exposure. If they could put TV, magazine, internet and street ads promoting mirrorless (m4/3 specially) as the next evolutianary step in photography and get that idea into people’s mind mirrorless = new and more advanced tech vs DSLR = outdated tech + no innovation people would flock,
To be fair, Olympus advertising for the OMD series has been rather fashionable and prominent. I would agree about Panasonic marketing and distribution. Being known as a consumer electronics company is not doing them any favours with the emerging photographer segment. They need to do a cross collaboration with Leica. Something like, “cameras designed by Leica”.
I had a local camera store manager tell me that they had tried to sell the Panasonic Lumix cameras but had to back away when Panasonic began requiring them to carry a lot more Pany gear than they could afford.
1. Panasonic could utilise its 4K know how and deliver a speed demon for stills with ultra high frame rates with smart software to select best shots from a sequence. Great for street photography or any orcas sip to capture the decisive moment.
2. Similar to Fuji, have ability to develop JPEG from raw in-camera or via custom app using wifi but with more effects and localise controls. In app makes sense as to utilise larger screen.
3. Spoken so many times already, it is the lenses that make a camera system. Put more effort to deliver quality lenses at affordable prices. Most Pana lenses to date are too expensive for what they offer and still too plasticky and none have distance scales (reason why I have more Olympus lenses)
4. In app ability to reach out to user community with weekly tutorials, prizes, and challenges. Also way to keep up with product news and updates.
As many have mentioned the GX7 is mostly right except for styling and feels plasticky.
I might add that I was disappointed over the lenses bundled with the camera. Considering the price on release, lenses should be of higher grade, look at Olympus and Fuji
What I am trying to get at is Panasonic seems to have this consumer electronics mindset. What Lecia and Fuji get is a camera to an enthusiast is an emotional purchase. It is all about haptics, the value proposition and the sense of a special and ongoing relationship by owning a product.
my gx8 wish mockup…go ahead mock it 😉
I like it.
I usually love user mockups but why would you mess with a perfectly fine design? the only flaws of the camera are software related (easily fixed via firmware btw) not ergonomics. There’s no reason to ruin the grip by frankeshoping a dslr into it. You can have a bigger EVF by slightly decreasing the screen size (which is totally fine since you can use any wifi device as a screen). either way the EVF size is fine, what’s wrong is the aspect ratio not the EVF itself (better refresh rate maybe). Good PS skills in any case. The next GX model (GX9?) should remain much the same (more pen like maybe), the only necessary change is a new organic sensor and Pany would have an absolute winner.
I wouldn’t mess with the design of the GX7. I love mine just the way it is. But I appreciate people who think outside of the box and I am always interested in new designs.
I like your idea as well; new organic sensor, maybe even global shutter and video IBIS who knows? I can live with the EVF and grip design.
I love the design of the GX7. It just needs a few tweaks under the hood — particularly better autofocus tracking with DFD or PDAF.
IBIS for stills AND video.
NO regional restrictions to PAL and NTSC video frame rates. Make them both available everywhere and let the user decide. [Not that LCD displays in the PAL regions have a refresh rate of 50hz anyway.]
This thing must fall below 500 EUR with a lens, or DSLR competition will murder it – I mean, will go on murdering it.
The next camera will have to take advantage of 4K over the competition, the size of the camera is good only if it is moving to smaler, I like de look of GX7, but small changes are possible, a new sensor is always welcome too, and at least 9fps
I would have bought one if it had a flip out screen. So I got a gh3. I would like a gx8 with a flip out screen and the new sensor.
Also, I like the apparent build quality and buttons of the gx7 more than the recent G series.
Got to have that fully articulated screen. It is a killer feature. Heaven knows what genius in Panasonic thought when he was dumping it. I loved the look and feel of the GX7 but bought a G6 for the screen which I am using a LOT. Oh, the G6 is white, by the way. That was another reason for choosing it over the GX7 which is either black or black with silver touches. Boring as, and not pratical in the tropics where I live and work.
Cheers, geoff
Ummmm… bigger sensor?
go ahead with your “full frame”
never mind. ff is too tiny. we need 3×2 meters.
Design. Make it in the faux retro style. The GX should be Panasonic’s “classical digital rangefinder” line that seems to sell the Fujis and, to an extent, Nikon Df. That would put it apart from other Lumix models. Pana can still keep the GF line for the more modern looking style.
Love my GX7, but it could definitely improve. Here’s what the GX7 needs either now in some new firmware, or in a future body.
1) Firmware fix: The auto ISO feature on the GX7 is only half complete. Besides setting the maximum ISO you will allow the camera to use, you should also be able to select the minimum shutter speed the camera will use, before it cranks up the ISO or lowers the ISO. This is a feature that the Fuji X100s has, and so does my Nikon D800 and many other cameras.
2) Firmware fix: The silent mode is very good, but not totally silent. I work on film sets using a sound blimp and blimps are cumbersome to say the least. The GX7 is almost ready to replace the sound blimp, but not quite because even in silent mode it still makes noise when stopping down the aperture for each individual exposure. You can hear this on a quiet set on a soundstage. It is loud enough that you will not be allowed to shoot while they are recording sound. All Panasonic needs to do to fix this, to give a truly silent camera, is to give us a menu option to keep the aperture stopped down to our selected aperture—>so the aperture doesn’t have to repeatedly close. The aperture closing is what makes the noise. I know so many unit photographers who would buy this camera if you did that. Then it would be truly quiet enough for a film set. (On today’s GX7 in silent mode, if you set your lens aperture to be wide open, you will hear nothing when you take a picture, because the aperture does not have to stop down. I want it to be that silent at all apertures)
3) GX7 should keep the articulating eye-level viewfinder, but up the visual quality to the level of the OMD E-M1’s viewfinder. Be sure to keep the articulating LCD screen as well.
4) Would be nice if the GX7 could be weather sealed so I could shoot in the rain.
5) The GX7 could still use a better grip similar to the Olympus E-M1. A grip that you would feel secure with holding and shooting the camera with one hand if necessary. It’s a bit too bulbous in it’s present state. Give me a grip I can actually grip—>wrap my fingers around—>like the OMD E-M1
Finish — give us a white of all silver model. The “silver” model has only silver top and bottom plates; otherwise it is black. And that retro pebbled plastic is, well, dated. I should know — I was there when it first came out and I am just about as dated as you can be and still remember that pebbled plastic was ugly then and it is ugly now (I wasn’t too bad then but Km ugly enough now!).
Cheers, geoff
The in-body stabilization in the GX7 was a good precedent, especially for people like me who have both Olympus and Panasonic lenses.
This new DFD autofocus system in the GH4 seems promising. If not, the hybrid phase detect AF found in the OM-D E-M1. Someone in Micro 4/3 needs to address the serious shortcomings in terms of autofocus tracking for sports and wildlife. Maybe not at DSLR level, but at least within striking distance. If the Nikon 1 series can do it, so can Micro 4/3!
There are a few things that I would love to see in GX8. Basically the GX7 already got the right stuffs but needs the following:
1. Better high ISO performance, especially around the 1600 to 6400 range where it’s being used the most during low light to capture motion i.e street photography at night or handheld night cityscape photography.
2. Weather Sealing (very important!!!!!)
3. Fully articulating 180 degree tilting LCD screen (not just for selfie, this is very important for video)
4. Better in body stabilization, preferably a 5-axis, that will also work in the video (very important!!!!!)
5. Mic jack and headphone jack for video (very important!!!!)
6. More video output option and hopefully better codec although the current video output is already nice.
7. Remove/reduce AA filter, use software-based DSP for moire correction.
8. 4k (I mainly use only 1080p and I don’t see myself working on a 4k video soon, but 4k will be nice)
9. Less viewfinder switch delay and reduce the “rainbow smear” effect (it’s not much but it’s significant enough for me to notice although it doesn’t ruin my shot)
10. A slightly higher refresh rate for the viewfinder with less lag on low light. Keep the articulation, even if it’s not used much, it had enabled me so many times to capture some important images that I wouldn’t be able to capture using either the LCD or non articulating viewfinder.
11. Constant Preview mode that works even in Program, Aperture or Shutter priority mode.
12. A successor to the 14-42mm PZ pancake lens with IQ and sharpness of the 14-42mm mkII to be offered as a kit lens for the GX8.
I love my GX7, it’s my “swiss army knife” camera, a little camera that does everything I want in a single package. It served me very well and now it has become my main camera for the past few months. I hope Panasonic will up the game with GX8; if Panasonic listened to our suggestions then I am sure GX8 will be the camera that M43 shooters love 🙂