As you know it’s all about 4K this year! Panasonic has been the first but soon also Sony and Canon and maybe Olympus too will announce their 4K cameras. Do you believe 4K is just the next hype or the real big deal?
Trustedreviews talked with Panasonic Product manager Craig Cunningham. He said 4K will not “fail” like 3D did:
“When you see the different in picture quality between even Full HD and 4K, you see that it’s the future”. “At Panasonic we are doing what we can to address 4K content so our Lumix cameras for example all can film 4K so you can still create some 4K content you just need the movies now and the broadcasters to get on board. Netflix is going to be a great start to that.”
I can tell you from my small experience that unlike 3D…4K is very seriously considered for some present and many future documentary productions! And once you watch 4K video on a 4K TV you will not like it to go back to 1080 resolution 🙂
North American GH4 preorders, shipping date and price:
GH4 camera at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), and Panasonic (Click here). Price: $1,698. In Canada at TheCameraStore (Click here) and Vistek (Click here).
GH4 camera with interface unit at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here). Price: $3,298
Interface unit only at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here) and Panasonic (Click here). Price: $1,998
European GH4 preorders, shipping date and price:
Germany: Wexcameras, Marcotec-shop.de.
UK at Wexphotographic, CameraWorld, UKdigital, CVP, TipTop.
Holland at Fotohanskeuzekamp.
Belgium at Fotokonijnenberg.
Norway at Fotovideo.
Sweden at Cyberphoto, Skandinavianphoto.
Finland at Telefoto, Topshot, Verkkoauppa.
France at Photocineshop.
63 Responses
Sorry but the link does not work from France and Hoson is unknown on eBay !!!
Cheers.
you might wanna try the global one, see if this link work 4u?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOSON-ZA-1-Black-Hand-Grip-for-Panasonic-DMC-GM1-DMW-HGR1-/271429405056
hmmm…I posted a link for a really cool grip for the GM1 that I accidentally came across…I do not own a GM1. I posted here on this page but I guess Admin removed it? I was just trying to be helpful to GM1 owners. I am in no way connected to the company that sells the grips. It was sunwayfoto. They have a grip with an arca-swiss tripod plate attached. I thought it was pretty neat…but no battery door.
Oh well.
It looks like they had posted a link about that a few days ago. See the post called a little bit of everything on March 17th.
The price is much more reasonable it seems than these other ones. I’d be willing to spend $30 but $80-100 is a bit much for a grip, I’m fine holding the camera as is for that. It’s probably just be for occasional use for me.
http://www.kleptography.com/rf/#camera_lumixgm1 The stick on ones look nicer imho. I couldn’t do without the Sony one for the RX100.
Esthetically I like the overpriced Panasonic grips with no battery door cutout. …I do not know how they feel tho. One would think that they could have at least made the provision for the battery door at that pricepoint.
With postage, it seems to be as expensive as the Panasonic grip, but it’s good to have alternatives.
4K is useful for more than just resolution.
With digital stabilization, the image is usually cropped and then scaled up. But if you shoot at 4k for a 1080p output, you can crop and scale up without blurring the picture.
Also with 4k you can get pick out nicer stills.
Native 4k is useless unless you watch tv at 1.5m.
The benefit will come to fullHD since it will be easier to make It liik better for regular folk if it can be downscaled from 4K
What a stupid comment
Stupit for what?
You dont agree that a down sampled image “looks better” or that your eyes have a limitation of resolution they can perceive at a certain distance.
Look it up bro, before you buy into another hyped up product for nothing more than GAS and bragging rights.
True, the main benefit is for fullHD because it becomes “fuller” when downscaled from 4K. There is much more data when recording in 4K rather than in 1080p only, and downscaling produces a much better picture
I have no interest in displaying 4k whatsoever. But I absolutely WILL shoot 4k because it means there is no downsampling. No line skipping, no pixel binning; just pure HD goodness. I’ll output as 1080p in post and the picture quality will be eminently better because of it.
Those who say the GH4 will fail because people don’t have monitors to show 4k footage yet have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
I completely agree, that 4K will make its way and has virtually no risk of failing like 3D did (at present).
But the reasons are not really “convincing quality” or something like this. The reasons are the same as those for 2 GHz CPUs now being everywhere today: it’s just because the production cost differential is too small for slower CPUs to compete, and there is no usability barrier, unlike with 3D.
Technically 4K doesn’t bring advantages (exceptions below), as you can see from the attached diagram: the human eye can simply not detect ANY 1080p advantages on a 60″ screen unless you are closer than app. 3 meters to the screen. And for just only STARTING to detect 4K advantages you must be closer than 1.8 meters. 180 centimeters or 6 feet to a 60″ screen! Ridiculous, how people let marketing generated perceptions invade their brains…
But as I mentioned: 4K doesn’t hurt either, except for a relatively small premium, which people will hurry to pay for believing to impress their visitors: Look, I can afford the latest and greatest. And the visitors will say “Wow, what fantastic picture!”, sitting at the usual 3..5 meter distance, where even 720p would create the same visual information… The emperor has no clothes, but he has payed his haute couture a gazillion for that… 😉
I mentioned exceptions: maybe some time from now the media infrastructure will allow to zoom into a video, or whatever could be done making use of the superfluous resolution just being there.
people also pixel peep their photos in 1:1 zoom to look for noise or level of details …all the m43 vs apsc vs FF comarisons are full of it so why you expect different in viedeo
It is absolutely true, and if anything your chart is too generous. Most people sit way too far from their TVs to notice the difference. I typically need to be withing 1-screen diagonal to appreciate all the pixels in 2k… but the nice thing about modern blurays is that encoding can be done with enough care to actually make sitting at those distances worthwhile (I tend to pull back from broadcast TV since the macroblocking is far more distracting). Yes, a 180″ screen + projector (and nearin-in-on-IMAX viewing angles) puts me in an extreme minority, but so does large format printing. People like to buy high MP cameras, and along those lines I am sure 4k will be nothing more than “spec” appeal for most, but wider adoption means a real benefit for the few of us willing to push to get everything out of it (without bearing the impossible economic burden of supporting an industry via our fringe subset).
4K surely is a more sensible thing than 3D. Personally, though, I couldn’t care less, as I already find 720p to be enough for moving pictures. As of today, I can’t be bothered to upgrade even to Full HD either on the TV set or the video footage I produce.
I look forward to the 4K adventure. As a still shooter, I feel I’ll have little choice, as already a number clients are expecting me to shoot video along with the still assignment. NOW, with individual 4K frames being 12mp @, many still shooters will be required to shoot the video and use the spray-and-pray option for clients grabbing stills they feel are “adequate” for their still-photography needs. Progress? Depends how your look at it.
“When you see the different in picture quality between even Full HD and 4K,”
Unlike 3D, I don’t see the difference from normal viewing distance. Theoretically, 4K should have the worse picture if a TV panel made using the same technology (the walls between liquid crystals either have to take more space if they are of the same thickness, reducing maximum brightness and contrast, or light will leak more reducing color fidelity.
Of course the difference is apparent at arms length on a 70″ panel, but nobody watches their 70″ TV from that distance.
3D on the other hand is very enjoyable if made properly and watched on a proper TV (240Hz plasma of course).
Sounds like 4K will be great for computers and tablets, which might be a way to prime the pump and show a reason to address the bandwidth and broadcast infrastructure investment to go mainstream. And present a way to disrupt the current distribution methods, since over the air and even many cable bandwidth providers are not ready. If consumers were to jump on this we might see a new distribution model appear.
3D failed many times in history, yet everyone from time to time try that again (only to fail again :D).
4K is logical evolution, it will work.. Not sure for regular TVs, but our computer displays will hopefully sooner than later change to some resolution close to that..
Eh. Maybe. The problem of course is that right now 4K TVs cost a whole lot more than a 1080p set. And there’s currently no 4K programming available. Who is going to buy a 4K camera and a 4K TV and produce their own content? Almost no one. So until there is content and a delivery method available to a broad segment of people, I am not convinced. For sure it would seem to have a much brighter future than a gimmick like 3D, but there are some real obstacles.
You’re missing the point. 4K acquisition is the important thing. Even if 4K displays never, ever, ever take off, consumer-priced 4K video cameras are still the practical next step. The benefits over HD are numerous and varied, even (some might say especially) if you’re rendering out in 1920 x 1080.
I’m sure 4K will succeed… even if it is only truly embraced by filmmakers. I can also see home video enthusiasts buying 4K HDTVs and enjoying it. But, for everyone else, I’m not so sure.
Firstly, there are no 4K broadcasts and aren’t likely to be for quite some time if at all – heck, there aren’t even any true 1080p broadcasts. It’s all 720p and 1080i. The problem: bandwidth and standards. The standards alone would take years to achieve and bandwidth costs money. Hiw much are you willing to pay? The same goes for video streaming. Most people who stream movies from the Internet aren’t even getting Blu-ray quality. The problem again: bandwidth.
And then, as others have already mentioned, there are issues of just hiw mich difference the human eye can perceive between 1080p and 4K at practical viewing distances and on practical screen sizes.
I think 4K isgreat and is already fast-becoming the standard for professional filmmakers. Video enthusiasts are also likely to enjoy its benefits. So I’m glad it’s here. But I’m not sure it will become a staple of mass-market consumer electronics.
think so too, but maybe its perfect for watching movies with a 4k video projector, which is still a niche market here.
> The problem: bandwidth and standards.
I guess then it isn’t any surprise NHK has been pushing the tech for years (or 8K as it were) since Japan has plenty of bandwidth. “Netflix”-type services are extremely fringe (and pay-per-view, though NHK had a documentary about the UK iplayer a few days ago, so things might be moving in that direction), but the 99% who watch the twenty or so terrestrial broadcast / (free to view) satellite channels are treated to over 20mbit/sec. The quality hurdle with the current standard is mpeg-2 video (though audio is AAC @ 5.1). The general wisdom is that efficiency scaled 2x with AVC , so jumping right to HEVC @ 4x the pixels will mean stunning 4k content without a youtube-like bottleneck. If they go so far as to drop interlaced production (perhaps just push 1080/120p with HEVC for live sports)… all the better. Having so much industry dependent upon tech innovation has the benefit of pushing lawmakers towards fast-tracking standards. How 8K is going to fit into the plan though… that I am not sure.
Next hype for sure. Will have its specific niche, though.
I believe 4K will be OK ..I don’t think anyone doubts that -they real question is how soon?
4K will achieve some success if only for the fact that we will finally be able to shoot full HD on the same camera. Material shot on 4K and then down converted to 1080p looks fantastic – much nicer than any HD cameras under $10K.
As for broadcasters adopting 4K in the near future. Complete nonsense. Broadcaster uptake of HD was very slow and only because of legislated regulations. Bandwidth is limited. It’s going to take a long time.
Retina displays & 2k/4k computer screens becoming more and more common are likely to help this accelerate at the consumer level–more so than home TV anyway. I’d MUCH rather have a 70″ 1080p OLED TV than a 4k LCD–I’ll take wider dynamic range and deeper blacks with better shadows over higher res.
That said, as someone who captures 4-8 camera shoots of live bands, often by myself or with small crews, 4k capture intended for 1080 output has useable appeal today–still frames, key framing 1080 crops to add motion or zoom to a static camera without IQ loss, radically improved software image stabilization without cropping in, better moire and artifact control, etc.
I’m excited about the GH4 and other 4k options that are coming. But until bandwidth and delivery are solved, I don’t see TVs and general home broadcast for 4k as something worthy of holding our breath.
Of course 4k makes sense for filming in, just not necessarily viewing in… Not until we all have 100″+ tvs…
Yes. Yes. 4K will fail. 3D had many advantages which 4K does not. 3D operated in whatever resolution native to the final display (web, broadcast, film) and only doubled the bandwidth to store, process or transmit the content.
Conversely. 4K files can be MASSIVE. Computer graphics technology isn’t yet ready to routinely run files that large. Finally, it took (literally) decades for the broadcast industry to make the move to digital and HD. They will NOT be investing in a moving target like 4K.
4K is likely to fail in much the same way 1080p has failed since the step up from 480p. Just give it time.
Considering that 1080p is a broadcast standard, and 4K is not, I’ll just assume you were being cute.
Disqus has fucked up again, preventing my writing.
Well it had, I’d written a longish piece about 4K which it has dumped, diqust is fucking garbage.
This is why you always quickly do ctrl-a then ctrl-c *before* submitting anything. Takes but half a second, and over the year can save you hours and hours of time 🙂
OK, I’m going to be naive now, what’s the purpose of ctrl-a? I know ctrl-c is ‘copy’, ctrl-v is paste. But my moan was a general one about Disqus which in general is a load of garbage, it takes ages to open, uses a huge font is ass about face in its thread format; while the previous system had no faults that I had to moan about and those contributors that people did moan about are still contributing in here, so nothing was achieved by the switch.
Try out ctrl-a for yourself and see what it does 🙂 Basically, it selects all text. Thus ctrl-a ctrl-c copies *all* your text, and all it takes is a micro second once you’re quick 🙂
I’m not too keen on the new Disqus comments either :-/ Mainly because of the very slow loading, and a couple of other reasons. But oh well, whatever, just got to live with it 🙂
I’ve watched 4K footage on 4K TV’s in Currys here in the UK….the footage is just simply stunning to watch. I really can’t wait for it to be the norm. It WILL be the norm eventually; technology will always develop, and we need to keep up with it.
Yes, eventually 4k will be the norm, but not for another 5+ years. Also of course technology will develop, but there is no need to keep up with upgrading your tv. Consumer technology is overrated.
OB , how close were you standing to the TV in the shop , when viewed at normal house hold viewing distances the advantages are not so clear. For me the GH4 will be for producing even better full HD movies, it is in essence oversampling, the video equivalent of taking a high res still and while reducing output you gain better sharpness, lower noise etc.
3D was terrible, largely because it was still 2D, just with some artificial effects that tried to fool your brain – and as soon as you tried to refocus with your eyes to eliminate the distraction, the illusion was shattered.
As others have mentioned, it doesn’t really matter if 4K catches on in the consumer realm for years, or even decades. Shooting 4K for production has tons and tons of benefits, to the point where it’s hard to argue why you wouldn’t do it, even if your work was entirely destined for 1080p output. Hard drive space and computing power costs nothing these days. That is not a real argument for anyone who is even considering spending $2000 on a camera designed to shoot 4K.
It’s shocking to hear from Panasonic after releasing the GH4 that 4K will not fail like so many other technologies did before. I really expected someone from Panasonic to come out and say that 4K is useless and will fail miserably. That would have made sense.
Wake me up when there are some news… Ah yes, and 4K = Super Audio CD. Best sound quality I ever heard.
Ok you can go sleep now. We will wake you up when we got exciting news 😉
4K will not fail per se as screen resolution overtime but unless you are watching at less than 2.7m (for my 70″ screen) your eyes cannot see the difference with 720p.
Pretty useless LOL
not a game changing tech by a long shot.
Your eyes will see the difference with smoother lines and gradients, especially close up. If you can’t tell the difference you’re either an idiot, or blind – possibly both
But the recommendation by the industry is not to sit close up, much like the way you look at a still image in a gallery. The majority of people are unable to recognise the difference from 720 – 1080 as it is.
The eye resolution of a person with perfect eyesight is about 2-3 megapixels (depending on what is considered normal viewing distance for a given screen size). 1080p is roughly 2MP, so it’s already touching the limit of eye resolution (again, from a person with 10/10 eyesight, which are a small percentage these days). Going to 8MP (4K) brings much more pain than gain. I really don’t see people wanting to download a 2 hour movie in 4K, nor investing in a 4K screen, nor having a 4K workflow for their videos (that’s a major pain).
4K will not happen. Like Super Audio CD never happened (despite Sony pushing it hard). Not because it wasn’t great, but because above certain level no one cares anymore.
lol.
Your eyes simply do not see in pixels. Your eyes see gradients and curves in a way that is completely different to pixels. 4k will smooth out so much aliasing from digital video and give it the step towards the smoothness found in film. Who gives a shit about your bullshit assertions.
Sir, you re an idiot.
It’s bey, not sir.
i don’t see 4k happening that mainstream just because of content delivery.
Content delivery is barely up to 1080, and for 4K to become widely used, the compression will have to be significant – and if so; what’s the point.
My viewing distance from my TV is about 4m. To be able to discern the increased resolution of 4K, I would need a bigger than 80″ screen to see any improvement over 1080p and ideally a 100″ screen to make it worthwhile. Then there is the issue of available content and bandwidth – especially via satellite, which is where my TV content principally comes from.
4K is the next 3D. Great for movie theaters but not the home.
mmmm wonder if I could convince my wife of the “need” for a 100″ screen. lol maybe not
Bullshit
4k is NOT new. Been around for almost ten years. Panasonic is playing catch up in hopes to bring the prosumers to market. RED invented 4k, and many many previous productions have been mastered in 4k. In fact 4k is already behind the times. We shoot 6k and deliver in 4k.
3d is not dead either. Especially in Asian markets.
no the Japanese broadcaster NHK invented 4K
There are few things you can do with 4K capability even though you do not have 4K monitor or “Interested” in 4K:
Photo: You can now shoot (frame grab) 8 megapixel photos 24 frame per second without time limitation;
Video: Downsample to 1080P for even sharper image and you could reframe your shot; Also as EOSHD previously mention you “could” convert 8bit 4:2:0 4K to 10bit 4:4:4 1080P
It is not “real” 10bit 4:4:4, is it? I mean the numbers are there, but they are just a lot of repeated values piling up.
4K rules!
Hi8 to Betacam… sort of. 4K is here, it aint goinna go away. Thanks Pana, but waiting for the Sony answer, GH4 is on the list.
correction.. gonna