TheCameraStoreTV team tried to answer a simple question. Is the tiny Panasonic GM1 really a better camera to use than a proper high end compact camera? Watch the video to get their answer!
Reminder: You can find the new Gariz GM1 leather case in [shoplink 43805 ebay]Black or Brown on eBay (Click here)[/shoplink]
69 Responses
f/1.8 lens included.
If you never change lenses RX100 can match GM1 in some aspects. However the point with GM1 is that you can change lenses. The DoF of GM1 with Oly 45 1.8 can never be matched by the RX100. The lowlight ability of GM1 and any f1.8 lens smokes RX100. The wideangle on GM1 is much better even with the kit lens and put on the Olympus 9-18 and you get a wideangle that compacts can only dream of. The same goes for Macro, super tele etc.
Sure the RX100 is even smaller than the GM1 with lens attached. The lens on RX100 is faster than the kit lens on GM1. So that is true if you compare the RX100 with any other 43-camera as well. The point is that GM1 is an amazingly small and an amazingly good interchangable lens camera. I have owned the GM1 for a couple of weeks now. Autofocus and IQ is the best I have ever experienced with MFT. Ergonomics are surprisingly good and it is a super fun camera to use. RX100 would never be an option for me. If I only had one camera I might have gone for a GX7 or EM-1 but since I already have other bodies GM1 was the given choice. This camera can travel everywhere. Pair up the kit lense with a couple of small primes and you have an awesome light weight kit with no compromise on quality. The output of this one eaquals what I got from my much bigger Nikon bodies a couple of years ago. And the GM1 focuses quicker in AF-S.
Both cameras are brilliant, but they really don’t compete in the same niche…
On the other hand, some comparisons w/ Ricoh GR, Nikon Coolpix A, or Canon G1X are warranted.
Both have ba ergonomics in their own way but the rx100 mk II is worse. If panasonic just didn’t have that tiny Itsy wheel that makes it easy to press white balance or somethin else.
I do not uderstand why them having a camera with better ergonomics like lx5/lx7 they can’t follow their own better ergonomics.
+1
I very much dislike those wheels.
odd comparison of cameras, just because of physical size?
one thing the Sony has over the Panny is that the Sony has a hot shoe to attach a EVF viewfinder (like the one you use with the RX1)
while the Panny does not have the hotshoe for the Panny EVF or a pocket wizard etc..
when Panasonic adds the hotshot for an EVF I will buy
Articulated screen, better lens, F1.8, hotshoe, cheaper, jeans pocketable.
If only comparing the kit lens the RX100II wins easily. It just checks all boxes that a small zoom camera needs.
I disagree. While the lens in the RX100 has a longer range and is brighter, the 12-32 has far better image quality than the RX100 lens. The 12-32 is sharper by a big margin, has less CA and other defects. Plus the wider angle is nice.
The only two things the GM-1 does better is a little faster autofocus (though really usable on RX100) and you can change lenses. Yes that’s it. But I wouldn’t bring it to a party or a concert as it doens’t fit into a pocket, low light in the lens isn’t good and the zoom is too short and close focus not good enough.
If you watch the video it’s pretty clear that the GM-1 only “wins” if you use more than this one lens. The RX100II is much better all around, of course there might be a trade of in the farest corners in image quality, but both are not the camera a professional would bring to print in wall size. It’s always summer where I live (Malaysia) and I don’t even own a jacket where I could fit the GM-1 in. That’s why this camera is better FOR ME.
But I also don’t own other compact lenses that I would attach to this camera so I can’t and don’t want to talk for everyone here.
Switch lens on the GM1 and it wins in every situation. That is the point with an interchangeable lens camera. Then the kit lens handles pretty well in low light with the high iso capabilities, OIS and flash available. But for parties the ultimate kit is to pair the GM1 with Oly 17 f1.8, Pana 20 f1.8 or similar lenses. Just as you would with any other four third camera. EM-5 with the kit zoom is not so hot at parties either.
Same size, better image quality. IQ is the factor, Panasonic wins, easily.
Panasonic wins in really bright light, at least. In low light, it gets a bit tricky…
*Chuckle*
You can’t be Serious… The GM1 shares the same sensor as the GX7 and you’re saying it’s “Tricky” in low light?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!
Because the RX100 lens is 2 stops faster? The RX100 sensor is on par with the GM-1 sensor, regardless it’s higher MP count and slightly smaller sensor size
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GM1-versus-Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-II___920_896
DXO findings go well with my own experience of the RX100 and the EM5. Seems the GM1 is a little low on dynamic range compared to both the RX 100 and the EM5.
Same size? You mean without lens?
In my yeans pocket the RX100 wind easily, because it’s the only one that fits.
same size? not so much…
IQ THE factor? For you? IF IQ is THE factor I would not go with either of those cameras. However high ISO and DOF is pretty much the same, but the RX100 can focus much closer and has longer tele. It’s like full frame with slow lens vs M43 with fast lens. If size is THE factor and you can only carry one lens with you, it’s the RX100.
HOWEVER,
They’re comparing THESE TWO CAMERAS.
If I was to chose one, I would chose the one with the BETTER Image Quality.
You may have wouldn’t, but I would.
Sorry, I would chose the GM1 over the Sony Any Day.
PLUS, I have the OPTION to use MULTIPLE LENSES.
At the size between the two, it’s not even a question.
ONE, I wouldn’t even put a camera that size in my jeans pocket. I owned a S95, and i never put it in my jeans pocket.
SECOND, If I was to put it in my pocket, it would be my jacket pocket. So in my other pocket, would be another Lens. -WIN.
THIRD, “And you can carry only one lens” hahaha! What a joke. Sorry, it’s not the RX100, it’s the GM1.
You are talking about your preferences and I talk about mine. What is so difficult to understand? Accept other peoples opinions and decisions. Did you even watch the video? There is no winner.
I did..
-Better Image Quality.
-Interchangeable Lens.
-Similar price for both.
He chose the GM1. What did YOU see?
Oh… You seen what you wanted to see. Gotcha.
If you would chose the Sony, then just say so.
“If size is THE factor and you can only carry one lens with you, it’s the RX100.”
Sounds like you’re talking for me.
“Accept other peoples opinions and decisions.”
I said I would chose the GM1 for its image quality. Maybe, just MAYBE you should follow your own advice and accept my choice between these two cameras.
If I wanted the best quality in my jeans pocket, yes I would choose the RX100. Simply because the GM-1 won’t fit in my jeans pocket, not even with the slow kit lens. So it’s just out of the race FOR ME!
It’s a micro four thirds website. Panasonic beats Sony by default…..sorry, what was the question?
What are you talking about? No it’s not- http://www.thecamerastore.com/ It’s a literally a camera store, I’m sure they’d like you to buy anything they sell, which includes Sony and pretty much every other brand of camera maker.
I think he is talking about THIS website, not thecamerastore. Here for most it doesn’t matter if it’s small FF camera or a good 1 inch camera, Panasonic and Olympus are automatically better because you know, it’s Panasonic and Olympus 😉
The camerastore is actually fair unbiased website in my opinion and has some excellent reviews. All the pros and cons of both cameras are mentioned in this video. There doesn’t seem to be much difference, both are excellent cameras with it’s own features above the other so they didn’t choose a winner, because there is no winner. If the Sony or the Panasonic is “better”, depends on individual needs (as with every camera). If they had the same features can concept a winner could be picked, but it’s two totally different concepts and the only “similar” things are obviously body size and price.
AH- I see now.
Heh- really all one has to do is go to Sony Rumors then 😉
Exactly. The difference is on the Sony rumors site it’s not so much about sensor size discussions and this strange inferiority complex of many mFT users when it comes to sensor size discussions isn’t there. I think it’s because Sony doesn’t restrict their users to one System but let’s them choose the sensor size they prefer.
Time moved on since the introduction of mFT-System 5 years ago and today even smaller sensor cameras can beat some m43, that’s hard to accept of course.
Sadly most people tend to think that they can take nice pictures only if using “the best” gear.
Of course it depends on needs, but in the last couple of years the megapixel number war turned into the sensor size war. Not to mention this crusade between Olympus and Panasonic users. Childish.
As far as I’m concern, I’m not slave to camera gear. I master my camera so that it becomes my slave.
+1
Gimp cameras.
This is the market (point and shoot) that M43 should compete in. Small, cheap and tiny sensor. M43 does not have a chance in the APSC or FF market.
Same opinion here. I dream of a body like this with a simple EVF and 2-3 little wheels on top. I’d take this over a heavy OMD any day.
APSC is pretty tiny too.
I own an RX100 and a m43. The RX100 is nice but it’s no replacement for a interchangeable lens camera. The RX100 photos have too much depth of field due to it’s smaller sensor and the variable aperture lens. You can’t get decent defocus of your subject and background. It definitely has that ‘point and shoot look’ to the photos. The m43 sensor is really the borderline sized sensor for decent bokeh. In RAW, the dynamic range is also very limited. You have about 0.5 to 1 stop of dyanmic range to work with. Highlight recover and shadow recovery is very limited. Much less than the m43 sensor.
Not true if you compare the RX100II and the GM-1 with kit lens (and that’s what the comparison was about).
Check this graph:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-coolpix-p330/images/EquivAperture.png
First of all, the Sony is the fastest of all compacts until around 60mm equivalent. And this is clearly vidible in real life pictures.
The equivalent aperture of the Panasonic 12-32 F3.5-5.6 lens starts at F7 and goes up to F11 at 65mm. So it’s around the pink line of the Panasonic LX7. That’s always slower than the RX100 lens and just equal at the longest end of the Panasonic (whereas the RX100 can zoom go until 100mm and focus much closer than then Panasonic).
So the Sony is faster and it even matches the APS-C sized Kit zooms at the wide end in terms of DOF.
Dynamic range probably a bit better now on the M43 sensor, but you should also compare to the BSI sensor of the RX100II which is better. It also doesn’t matter as the Panasonic will choose lower ISO or faster shutter speed because the lens is faster.
Of course you can attach faster prime lenses to the GM-1 and it’s more flexible, but that’s not the point of comparing the cameras with kit lens at same prize.
Now fanboys please kill me all for coming with real numbers instead of opinions and tell me that equivalency doesn’t matter (in this case).
Other mirorless CSC systems (NIKON 1) makes interchangeable lenses for even smaller sensor like the Sonys. And it’s also enough for many.
Kit lens, smit lens. Real enthusiasts don’t shoot kit lenses.
Both sensors perform very similar:
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GM1-versus-Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-II___920_896
The equivaltent aperture is faster on the RX100 than on the GM-1 kit lens (please calculate yourself).
So the RX100 can take pictures with lower ISO or faster shutter speeds under same light and the DOF is shallower under all circumstances. I own the RX100 and it replaces my old APS-C NEX-5 with kit zoom in all situations and pictures LOOK about the same.
The GM-1 is a nice little ILC camera, but in zoom compacts without interchangeable lenses nothing comes even close to the look of the RX100 pictures and that’s not just an opinion. Of course a GM-1 is more flexible in terms of lenses, but with the kit-zoom only it doesn’t have advantages other than maybe faster AF. I wouldn’t reccomend the GM-1 to people who don’t plan to buy or own other M43 lenses.
You only shoot kit lens on your nex?
I would stick a 25mm or a 45mm on an orange GM1 and roam the streets asking for portraits at unknown people.
How can you say “no” to such a cute camera?!
Add an Hermes sticker for an even better reception in Italy!
Hahaha great idea Tom! I suspect I’d capture sparkling looks! 😉
Btw, I saw your email on flickr, I’ll try to give you some hint!
Panasonic fanboys always defend panasonic like crazy. look at olympus user, I really respect them.
Hey Putz. Are you deaf and blind to your own hypocrisy?
You came here and spit on Panasonic users while patting yourself on the back for being so sweet and pure? Only an Olym-bicile could be so hateful.
When and where?. I as longvasbi follow 43rumors pana fanboy always talkshit about olympus.
YOU are THE trash-talking flaming f-a-n-b-o-y TODAY. You have posted 3 ugly, pin-headed, anti-Panasonic diatribes – – ALL without the slightest provocation or justification.
That’s what caused me to point out YOUR hypocrisy.
BTW, the double-digit IQ you display is COMPLETELY NORMAL EVERYDAY, Oly-bicilic trash talk which is far more damaging your puny little god (Oly) than to ALL YOUR ENEMIES who use other than cameras.
RX100 starts at 28 mm equiv., the GM1 kit lens at 24, plus: using a converter, e.g.Panasonic DMW-GWC1GU, you can have 19 mm equiv. with a bit of vignetting, but you can get there (by cropping a bit). RX100? Not so much …
Fair enough, but what about the tele end when we talk about zoom range? The RX100 can zoom to 100m while the Panasonic only goes to 64mm.
For wide angle:
http://www.hdhatstore.com/Sony-DSC-RX100-Super-Wide-Angle-Lens-Kit.html
http://www.amazon.com/Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-Definition-Circular-Polarizing/dp/B00BZO8NUO
just the first two options I found on google…
Just crop a little bit and you get there with kit lens.
But most people would instead use a cheap Olympus 45mm f/1.8 and blew the socks off the RX100.
The 45mm lens alone (without the camera) fits the other jacket pocket perfectly, so the logistics works out pretty well.
How does a 45 1.8 blow anything if the wide angle on the Sony is also 1.8 and much more usable at 28mm than a portrait 85mm portrait prime?
Because it’s Panasonic?
Do you ever heard “Adobe Lightroom” geez panasonic fanboyism is really amazes me!
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Find the yellow spot!
http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-12/213941_gm1_dof.jpg
lol 🙂
Cute.
If it was my ONLY camera, take the GM1
As 2nd camera take the RX100
Both are great!
It´s more or less an easy decision:
Do you want a nice internal tiltable flash, the electronic shutter / “silent mode”, good adjustable focus peaking (for manual glass), the option for interchangeable lenses (and / or vintage glass) AND a very good video performance -> Get the GM1. (Also if you search for a 2nd camera for your m43 system.)
On the other side: If you want the smallest possible (about the best image quality wise) compact camera, if you don´t want to change any lenses, if you want an EVF option (altough quite expensive) AND if you need a flash socket -> Get the RX100 Mark II. It´s really that easy.
Agreed.
To complain about an Interchangeable lens camera because it’s kit lens isn’t particularly wide, or long, or fast or whatever is just pathetic. Dont buy such a camera if all you will ever use is the kit lens!
It’s not that easy as the Sony has a silent shutter, a tiltable flash, very good video (some buy it just for video), a tiltable display, possibility for EVF or external flash, smaller size.
The ONLY two things GM-1 does better is slightly faster AF and of course the possibility to change lenses.
I meant the “silent mode” (so the electronical shutter with absolutely no noise). That´s not the case with the RX100. The video of the RX100 is ok for a compact. But detail wise way behind the GM1 (which is even compareable with the GX7 and the GH3).
I mentioned the EVF. Yes – It´s nice. But it´s WAY too expensive for an accessory. So what´s the use. And also price wise (which I didn´t mention because it´s more of a “special case” – But): If you get the GM1 with the newer Panasonic 14-42mm ii ASPH for example (like me), you only pay around 450 to 500€ for that kit (NEW – Which is signifficantly lower than the RX100 Mark II). It´s even less compact then – But I would never transport a camera in my jean anyway. It´s just too expensive to do that. Oh. An external flash option is also nice to have – Yes. But you don´t buy a compact camera (primarily) to shoot with external flash systems ^^.
Hmm. Didn´t know that it also has a tiltable flash.
Thx for that information – Good to know ^^.
(As the RX100 M2 is also my favorite compact camera.
Beside the GM1 is may favorite compact system camera ^^.)
GM1 + Oly’s ‘Body Lens Cap’ lenses – great idea!!!
Though I have to say I’d go for RX100ii if I were in the market for a compact, always with me camera.
Panny should try to design and release 20mm or 25mm f/4 or f/5.6 “body cap” lenses. 4.0/20mm would have been very interesting.
The horrible truth:
If your pockets are small, only a RX100 will fit (jeans, etc.).
If your pockets are big enough to hold a GM1 (coat, etc), a regular pen or GF with kit lens will fit in just as well. Actually, a coat pocket is often even big enough to hold a NEX with one of those ridiculously big lenses.
I have a EPM1 and with its kit lens it does not fit comfortably on my very large jacket pockets. It does fit, but not comfortably. With the Pana 20mm f/1.7 it does fit comfortably in size (a smaller size would be nice but not essential), but not in weight, which is very odd.
The GM1 (which I don’t own yet, but I plan to rent for a weekend and buy if I’ll like it) will certainly have a smaller size (nice to have) and will also be lighter (must have). Will it enough for me? I don’t know yet, but I hope so.
Cheers,
Davide
RX100m2 offers excellent 24p video in a stealth body. If video is of any importance, then Sony takes the cake. I own GH3 and RX100m2. Sony holds its own at WA.
The Sony is a compact zoom camera and the Panny is a miniature interchangeable lens camera. If you are comparing them with the “kit lens” on the Panasonic vs the Sony that’s insane! Kit lens’s are handy but they are NOT what interchangeable lens cameras are about.
I own a Sony FF camera and a Panny LX7 with an EVF and a GH3. They are all great cameras. I don’t compare them. I often find myself throwing the LX7 in my bag because it;s a small and light. The only camera that has ever been in my pocket is in the iPhone and I use that a lot too.
My point here is that I do not believe comparing these two cameras was a good idea, and especially with the kit zoom on it. I’d say 95% of the people who read this blog know better than to review a camera and draw conclusions about tests done with a kit-zoom, even a decent one.
It’s a crazy comparison yes. But it’s only fair to compare them at the same price and similar size level. Of course the GM-1 will be mostly better with a 1000$ lens, but then it’s even more apples vs oranges
When the GM1 adds a tilting screen it will be no contest, to me. As is, it still wins by a tad owing to interchangeable lenses. And the Sony still “feels” like a point ant shoot.
Always so much talking by this guy. Almost always uninspired photographs and motion picture footage from his productions.
I get it and know what the review is and for… technology advancement is what this site and what his videos are about. Dang, it gets weary though.
And gear head talk is fine, but if you can’t drive well should I really trust you to describe the car?
So much attention on the brush, so little on the paintings.
Interesting comments. I own an RX100, and Oly OMD-EM1, and an RX1 (Full Frame) and have extensively shot with all of them.
From my real world experience – the picture quality between the RX100 and EM1 is not extremely different. I suspect the GM1 will be similar as the sensors are roughly in the same ‘generation’ of technology. The EM1 is better in that you have a better IBIS, slightly more DR and of course- olympus color.. but it isn’t night and day. Having said that, the RX1 *IS* night and day better than both of them. There just isn’t ANY comparison. Previous users are correct, for most vacation shooting 45mm on a M43 is just way too long. Id be willing to bet if you go into lightroom and look at most of your pictures they will wind up being in the 28mm-50mm (full frame eq.) range.
for the last few years i was huge into m43, but honestly, the format has not delivered. The lens sizes overall just aren’t that much smaller, and the IQ isn’t much better than the RX100 (which takes amazing pictures). Moving ahead -> i will likely sell off all my M43 kit (unfortunately I have a lot of it.. 8 lenses, 3 cameras, etc..) and move to the Sony EF mount (A7R most likely). The 35mm EF lens is roughly the same size as the Oly 17mm M43 lens, and the EF 55mm f/1.8 lens is only slightly larger than the panasonic 25mm f/1.4 lens. DOF will be much better and the full frame sensor blows away the smaller m43 sensor in terms of noise and DR.
FOr those who have never used a compact Full frame camera, i highly recommend renting one for a weekend to try it. LensRentals.com will rent you one. I guarantee that if you use an RX1 for a weekend you will see the massive difference in IQ compared to M43. It just isn’t in the same ballpark.
Oh.. and one thing i forgot to add.. you cannot underestimate the usefulness of both the RX100’s electronic shutter and the RX1’s leaf shutter. In real life shooting, this is *huge* as you can flash sync up to the max shutter speed. this means fill in flash available in any scenario you would like. It really opens up your creative options…