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Funny how rumors about future mirrorless cameras from the competition often refer to a new model as an “Olympus OMD” alike design. it shows how successful the Olympus OMD line is! Fujirumors reports: “The Japanese source told me that the weather sealed X coming in January will have double SD card slots. The design? A new source said that the camera body will be “something like OMD (E-M1 – E-M5) shape“.
Now Olympus has to come up with something else others can”copy” 🙂
78 Responses
First the Df copying the E-M5, now Fuji? Glad to have a camera system from an innovator rather than a copier
“First the Df copying the E-M5, now Fuji? Glad to have a camera system from an innovator rather than a copier”
BS the Nikon is loosely copying the design of decades old Nikon DSLR bodies, just as the E-M1 design is loosely based on decades old Olympus DSLR design.
It’s not the design they’re copying, it’s the concept of going all-out retro. Indeed competition is aping Olympus’ successful camera much like electronics manufacturers have been, to put it politely “taking design cues” from Apple since the iPhone. And much like the fruit copyists the effort seems kind of forced compared to what Oly originally achieved with the OMD. Nikon has created a monstruosity in the DF and Fuji is oddly abandoning its successful, highly regarded rangefinder-like form factor in an attempt to pursue that mirror nostalgia too.
Nobody is copying anyone here. At least not yet. And certainly not the DF.
Nikon and Fuji both had full lines of SLRs in the 1970s. They don’t need to copy anyone.
It makes perfect sense. It’s the pathway for Fuji to go after migrating DSLR users, not everyone wants a RF style, so Fuji needs to give them choice.
What do you mean Don Tom “not everyone wants a RF style”, you only have to read the entries on any thread on 43 rumours to clearly see that 99.999% of readers want on RF or similar, SLR style is only for dinosours. 😉
Seems more and more discerning photographers are realizing what has been clear for years –
Simple equation – big grip + central VF = sharper steadier photos!
Alas mFT forums are not a very reliable indicator of what the wider market wants even now with a wide range of mirrorless offerings from several makers.Roughly 83% of interchangeable lens cameras shipped are DSLR’s. Pseudo DSLR designs are well represented amongst mirrorless cameras , E-M5,E-M1.GH3,GH2,GH1 GS,G6 from mFT alone.
There is no doubt for many users that the pseudo DSLR designs offer far more comfortable ergonomics than most faux RF options.
I think your comment may refer to a lot of bods wanting the Pen to have the EVF integrated on the left. As well as the OMD having a central EVF. So that there were the two distinct styles with basically the same capability just laid out differently.
I hope you guys above me realise my comment was rather tongue in cheek, I use an E-P2, E-M5 and have just collected an E-M1 kit, yep I rather prefer the SLR style.
but the fuji lens weather sealed???
If Fuji develops some weather sealed zooms (only one 10-24mm f4 is in the roadmap so far), the E-M1 will have a very serious competitor. X-Trans APS-C is on par with FF sensors. Olympus has however a better start regarding the lenses.
“X-Trans APS-C is on par with FF sensors”
Sure it is if you ignore DR,color depth, High ISO and resolution lol
Actually regarding colour reproduction X-Trans is better than any Bayer sensor. Iso up to 6400 is on par with FF Bayer sensors. Resolution is also better than a comparable megapixel FF sensor (that of the D4 for example). FF has a shallower dof and better DR (but not by much).
yes keep on dreaming…fuji marketing is really really great!
I have both Fuji and mFT as well as using my brothers Nikon D800 on occasion and believe me the Fuji which I love as a device is not at the races compared to the D800. I cannot comment how it performs against other FF as that is the only one I have ever used.
If I take a look at depreview then the E-M5 has a better dynamic range then Nikon D800, D600, Canon 5D Mark III (if you switch off ADL at the Nikon Cameras, and switch Gradiation to Normal at the E-M5 😉
lol the stupidity displayed here is almost unbelievable. The D800 is far ahead of the E-M1 in every single image criteria if you believe otherwise you are very wrong
lol the inability to recognise sarcasm displayed here is almost unbelievable
There are so many wildly inaccurate claims made about the wonders of mFT here that detecting sarcasm is pretty tricky lol
I don’t know if that is true. Steve Huff says he dislikes X-Trans for being flat, I saw recent comparisons of X-A1 with a normal Cmos Sensor that beats its X-Trans Cousins for sharpness. And when you look at DP-Review Comparison it speaks a different language, especially in Higher Iso from 1600. True a X-Trans APS-C might generate more Output than a MFT Cmos but I think there is little to support your Theory.
I own a Pentax MX-1 and a OMD, to me a lot of the sharpness of the Pentax comes from its excellent lens – the Fuji Lenses are ok but they don’t beat the Oly 45, 75 or the Panaleica 25. X-Trans might have it’s benefits but it comes down more to taste than anything else.
Steve Huff can say whatever he wants 🙂 Many are still using LightRoom to convert Xtrans raws, and sure, with LightRoom/ACR you sure get a more softer result with less detail. But that’s not the Xtrans (hint: use iridient or capture one).
I understand that oyu don’t want to relly on one blogger – but everybody can see for themselves on dpreviews comparison chart:
The 16mp APS-C X-Trans Sensor from the x100s – looks a lot worse than the 16MP mft CMOS from the OMD:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x100s/18
Or here I think the Sony NEX-7 looks better than X-Pro1:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-pro1/23
That of course is my personal taste … everybody may see different things. I like my Photos crisp as my morning müsli, others might like to soak it a bit more because the crispness and contrast takes away their “micro-contrast” 🙂
Everyone here looks at articles and “data” to form opinion and loyalties.
Almost no one posting has any experience with the vast majority of cameras discussed here.
you are absolutely right. And if we are already talking about the real world: I tried a Fuji X100s and it is a wonderful, useful camera and looks really good – to my eye. That said: I myself was already thinking of buying into Fuji X-Trans because it made so many waves and THEN I started to look around, build my own opinion. And it was because of people in Forums made me believe that X-Trans is something like Leica – the magic you cannot put into Data or whatever and it made me want it. After some investigation I am very very happy to own a OMD – and still in the market for a small carry around like the RX100 BUT with a inbuilt viewfinder (eyeing the Panasonic LF1…)
X-Trans though has lost it’s magic for me – or better – I see magic as the thing it is: an illusion. And when you take that away – MFT has many points where it is jsut better than the fuji system
And by the way: dpreview uses ACR as you suggest – so that should cover this margin of error
“Now Olympus has to come up with something else others can”copy” ”
They could start with IBIS, for example. Panasonic did a pretty good job, let’s see how the rest will fare ;).
> “Now Olympus has to come up with something else others can ”copy” ”
–> shipping the E-M1 and the 12-40, as we are waiting and waiting and waiting .. 😉
Picked up my ‘Kit’ yesterday, ordered it Saturday 2nd November, hardly an issue with availability there, dealer had enough to put one on display.
Hi G! Did you receive my reply? Have fun with Em1, it’s a joy using it.
Just sent you an email Marco.
+1
“They could start with IBIS, for example. Panasonic did a pretty good job, let’s see how the rest will fare 😉 .”
Well so far we have the Olympus IBIS, the Sony IBIS, the Pentax IBIS and now Panasonic so its hardly unique. Though for Canon and Nikon users there are FF options covering from 16-1200mm [ 1800mm in the DX crop mode} so it is debatable just how much of a necessity built in image stabilization is. Typically in the situations where i need most help low light sports the IS doe nothing as I need shutter speeds to deal with motion more than I need steady slow shutter speeds .So fast lenses are my friend I shoot a lot with the 75mm F1.8 and cant wait on either the Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 or the Panasonic 150mm F2.8 if it is significantly smaller
Well, not everyone shoots motor racing at night. Besides, it’s always better to be able to lower ISO a bit. That F2.8 would probably require ISO 1600 in a dimly lit room or under most street lights, while large apertures won’t take you anywhere if you need more DOF.
Moreover, you don’t have to use in body IS, but it’s nice to have the option.
To be fair it hardly needs to be motor racing ,in low light IS is pretty much useless for any type of motion. If you are going to be shooting static subjects then you could just as easily use one of the many types of camera support many of which are not particularly heavy.
At least since I have the OMD I leave my tripod at home for casual shooting in the evening / night. In a VERY dark concert ally with my Pana 25 1.4 I still had quite a lot of acceptable shots – half drunk and handheld 🙂
As to the Pana IBIS: I believe it when I see it. Oly had IBIS before their OMD but it was nowhere near as helpful…
Acceptable is a matter of opinion lol
It is. There is my example for acceptable:
https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/547472_484960818223784_2016850017_n.jpg
Whatever the support, I won’t carry it on a casual walk or a night out with friends. If you tell people to be still, 1/10 s exposure will do. But if there’s no stabilization, your whole photo, not just moving objects, will be blurred. Unless you have a 10 mm ( 35mm equivalent ) UWA lens :).
More like another company goes film era ‘slr retro’. Oly makes nice looking cameras, but to imply no others would go retro without their lead umm…
Well, copy of the OM-D or not, at least Fuji sells their cameras and lenses over here; not like Panasonic who doesn’t, and Olympus who is by special order only.
“over here” ????
Where “over here” is, is not really important to my statement. The point is rather that those of us “over here” who want to invest in a mirrorless system are going to Sony or Fuji, for the simple fact that their products are freely available. Sure, the lens choice is limited, but then so is that of Olympus, when it is the only option – no 20mm or 25mm primes, or a fisheye. We are thus investing in Fuji or Sony and by the time micro-4/3 manufacturers (Panasonic and Olympus, but mostly Panasonic) get their respective acts together, we just won’t be interested anymore. Sad, because IMHO micro-4/3 is the better product, now and for the future.
As a huge MFT fan I must admit that the OM-D design has not totally convinced me so far. I would prefer a mix between OM-D and something like the (technically unimpressive) Panasonic GF2.
Reasons:
– assuming that touch screen operation is state-of-the-art (the GX7 is a cam that shows what can be achieved) there is potential to move away from the dated DSLR look & feel by simplifying the camera layout (I am saying that as someone who occasionally shoots FF).
– having a tiltable flash to the left is super nice: it can be operated with one hand and leads to particularly nice results indoors (indirect flash light).
– the E-M5 was oriented too much in the retro direction. It is not particularly easy to hold the cam and some of the buttons (e.g. the play button) are ridiculously small (yes, the E-M1 design is more convincing)
– Sony keeps using surprisingly small bodies for its otherwise not-so-small NEX gear. Their good (not perfect) user interface shows that an assemblage of buttons on the cam is no longer a necessity.
Just my 2 cents.
I think the main problem with the E-M5 was it being too small for comfortable use for larger hands it put me completely off it .The E-M1 is an awesome machine but I am very disappointed by it not advancing with regards to image quality , effectively there has been no significant advance in image quality since the E-M5 21months ago.
I will hold on to my current mFT gear until the next gen if it is not significantly better than what I have { GH3/GX7} i will be looking elsewhere
I can second this. I owned the EM-5 for a year, but never warmed to it, and sold it. I found it very cramped to use. My personal opinion is the centrally located EVF forces all the controls too far to the right on small cameras. I’ve used other cameras that are just as small as the EM-5 and had no issues (the Sony NEX-6 is one example). I’ve also owned a Fuji X-Pro1, and much preferred the controls layout of that camera. To each their own, some love the EM-5, some like me, don’t. There’s no such thing as one size fits all.
I fixed this by tailoring a perfectly fitting hand strap, which turns the e-m5 into an extra limb. Small is not an issue anymore, I am actually glad it’s small. Rather a perfect strap than a bulky grip.
To each his own, I guess.
I carry my camera pretty much everywhere and can’t imagine having the thing stuck to my hand all the time and trying to maneuver city streets, opening doors, zig zagging through crowds, staircases and whatnot. So, I carry my it sling style at my left hip where I can grab it and protect it, if need be or can just let it hang and do my thang. 😉
fuji coping olympus oh maybe sony too? camera need a hump for larger view finder or what have an external horrible btw at least work not like the gx7 but the desing is from old slrs cameras dont belong to oly , a7 just kill the em1 and seal the dead of m43 apsc will stay there cuz dont have the mediocre resolution of m43 ..eventualy oly will release ff systen and do the same they do panasonic do a favor to the photo world and get back making tourntables m43 u better start selling equipment asap cuz will value nothing m43 is dead fact and thanks sony
(………,,,,,,,,::;;) here is some punctuation for you, you should use it if you want people to read your comments.
I know you are not James Joyce, and you’re not writing an “Ulysses v2.0”, so some punctuation here and there would help everyone.
With or without punctuation this troll’s text is useless nonsense anyways. Why even bother reading his/her comments?
Perhaps it’s a waste of time, but maybe there’s still hope.. 😉
thanks really :*)
Most of Olympus innovations have been taken on-board by other makers, OTF metering, TTL flash, highlight and shadow spot metering and smaller SLRs OM 1 and 2. But during the AF boom in the 1980/90s they lost their way until the Pen and OM-Ds. Fuji, Sony and now Nikon, know that Retro design sells cameras. People like the look of film cameras from the 60s, 70s and 80s befor plastic became the material of most camera bodys. I am very happy that camera design is going in this direction.
I love this rumors!;)
As far as I read the rumors, this is a very vague one.
Funny thing btw. About eight years ago I predicted (on a forum) that there will be e renaissance of the the classic SLR style in the digital world. Well, nobody believed me, but I was right. Everything is comming back…
Hi Horst, yes you are correct, regards SLR it is a classic FF ‘Fully Functional’ design, suitable for left and right sighted users.
TOP had predicted it. We are the great Kahuna of the Digital World,the Universal Mount, like M42 and Pentax K were half a century ago.
It’s only because of consumerist wankers that this Forum can find no peace. Let them whine, in the end all MFR flock together around the most sensible format.
We can do everything, they can’t forgive us 🙂
Well, we live and that it is to be, may become great, thou nobody will, and why not.
Find peace!
You could be correct that there is not one bit of talent amongst the 93% of photographers who do not choose mFT. Or on the other hand you have a bunch of apparently decrepit middle aged and older men who are too weak or too ill or too incapacitated to carry a couple of Kg of real camera raving about how their choice is the best in some way.
Not the best image quality by a long chalk, not the smallest, not the cheapest.Perhaps for your particular sleazy interest in photographing unsuspecting women it does the trick on you will know.
The new Sony FF mirrorless are far more likely to become a ubiquitous mount as they can take almost any FF lens ever made, usable at its actual focal length .Add to this the rumors that they will by the next generation have on sensor AF it would be a painless transition to mirrorless . For Canon users there is already a metabones adapter that allows AF,the Sony models may be especially appealing to them as they do not have access to the better sensors.
“Now Olympus has to come up with something else others can”copy”” – er… isn’t that yourself Admin, reporting for FujiRumors? Come on man!
First it was Sony copes or OMD or worked with Olympus, now Fuji all of a sudden is copying OMD. Let’s wait for the real thing before the indictment. 🙂
Come on Patrick! 🙂
Some trusted soruce said Alpha7 is similar to OM-D, but they are not similar completely in my opinion,
And this case is same as that, they won’t similar, just they hava a evf in center of camera.
now fuji lovers have to take what they shit about us in the first place,..A rangefinder shape hardcore is really get bothered when fuji have this OMD like in their line,.,.they thinking that fuji has betrayed their loyal customer ,.and is like blaspheme to their own principal of religion which is the rangefinder look a like,..regardless the functionality and purpose of what Fuji company intended to move into,.i welcome a different form /shape of a camera,.because its a matter of choice,.and every person has a different taste,.
Though some might call it copying, I consider it evolution. Of course, when someone has a hit others will emulate and often improve. I believe the OM-1 was a derived from Nikon / Canon of the time, just as this rumored Fuji will take from some of the greatness of the OM-D E1.
That all being said, I *love* the new OM-D body, size and apparent quality. But, I will likely go with Fuji because I don’t see a compelling 35mm equivalent lens. The 17mm seems somewhat marginal in optical quality from what I read in various reports – for example: http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Database/Olympus/Olympus-MZUIKO-DIGITAL-17mm-F18/%28camera%29/677. The Fuji 23mm appears to be a killer lens, on the other hand (it will be interesting to see dxomark test…). Even though I prefer the OMD body over X-E2, I will go for the latter because of the lenses. I welcome the Fuji OMD “copy” because this might finally result in the ultimate lens / body combo for myself…
BTW – what would folks here recommend for a M43 35mm equivelant?
If 35mm is your interest I would opt for the Sony A7R with the Sigma 35mm F1.4 mounted on it not the smallest but it is a superb combo.
That’s if all you _ever_ want is a 35mm lens (in which case I’d say, just get the RX1 and be done with it). Have you seen how big the other NEX lenses are going to be? Especially compared to m43 equivalents? Even the Zeiss FE 55mm 1.8 is big.
If you want a compact full frame kit, fine. But if you want a compact kit, forget Alpha FE. m43 is still where it’s going to be at for a long while (unless you are sure you won’t ever need a handful of lenses, in which case there’s also Fuji).
Back on topic. Cheap and cheerful 35mm: 17.5mm/2.8 Olympus. Better: 20mm/1.7 Panasonic. Best: wait for the 15mm/1.7 Leica.
Did you ever tried by yourself an Oly 17mm F1.8? Just do it and maybe you will change your mind. I like it more than the Panaleica 25mm F1.4! Ok, everyone says the Pany 25mm is better but it didn’t convinced me!
And if you want the ultimate 35mm equivalent combo, get the Voigtlander 17,5mm F0.95! Of course only if you can live without autofocus. If you need/like autofocus, get the 17mm F1.8 from Olympus it’s a great lens.
I never used the Fuji 23mm, but I used a Fuji X-Pro from a friend and… That thing has great IQ, but is slow and big! So, if you like big and slow, get an E-M1 with a Voigtlander 17,5mm F0.95.
The GX7 and Voigtländer 17.5mm make a great combo. The compact body makes it far more discrete. I’ve been surprised that I’m noticed less than I was with the 17.5mm and my GH2.
“GX7 and Voigtländer 17.5mm make a great combo.”
I am thinking about getting the two sometime next year. Is focusing at F0.95 easy with focus peaking?
Meh. Not the first time. And hopefully, not the last, either (which means Olympus will continue innovating, as they did since the film Pen and OM days).
What did small SLRs look like after Olympus came out with the OM1? I own the OM1N and Pentax MX & ME Super, and they look like kissing cousins. Yet the OM1N still retains a special something that eludes the Pentax.
My first DSLR was the Olympus E1 and I remember the other makers eventually stole some new ideas from that, too, eg the auto dust removal on switch on and off. And still the E1 remained a special, one-of-a-kind design.
If only Olympus remembers to PATENT things the next time.
Unfortunately with regards to many modern developments Olympus has been behind the loop.They were late to the AF game and never really caught up, their choice of a different smaller sensor restricted the development of the format, how long did the 12mp sensor stick around ? Not forgetting that they abandoned us Olympus film users and then us Olympus FT users.
I am actually a bit disappointed that the new E-M1 has shown no real advance in image quality ,my E-M5 is now 21 months old and without a significant advance in image quality especially high ISO if anything the E-M1 is a little poorer here.I will wait on the next sensor upgrade in mFT and if it is not significant then the Sony A7r beckons
Well, it doesn’t help that Olympus has a small marketshare propping them up. I thought the 4/3 format didn’t make sense at first, but when they came out with m4/3 with its overall small size, I could see that it was the perfect format for a digital life, as the Consortium says, where photos tend to live online. It’s good enough even for A1 sized prints.
Happily for me I have never been an “either-or” kind of guy. I recognise different systems have different strengths and play to each accordingly. It’s why I own four different systems: E-M5 for compact digital, Canon 5D for full frame, Pentax K5 for weathersealed zooms, and Leica for film. I also have the Canon EOS-M, which I like and use mainly for video with Leica M lenses.
I’m not that rich – I just buy cameras and keep using them until they die (like my E-1). I replaced the E-1 with a 5D (because I wasn’t convinced by the E-3, which took so long to arrive), 5 years ago. 3 years later, I bought the K5. Another 2 years later, I picked up a battered old film M6 for cheap. Last year I bought the EOS-M. And this year I got the E-M5 from a friend who is buying the A7.
Sweet, the more demand there is for unwieldy hump-bodies, the less money I’ll need to spend to get my humpless-RF bodies.
slr style is back but will be REAL 35mm or at least 1.5 crop ,43 loose the special thing tje size now smaller sized cameras with good performance 43 sensor are good for point&shot is mediocre lame
M4/3 is better for shallow dof and lowlight. Grow up.
I like Olympus and Fuji. And personally I think esthetics are just as important as functionality. Not for showing off, but I like to look at a handsome tool.
Fuji did a great job with the X100(s) and the X-pro 1. The e-X1, -X2, -M1 and -A1 are less handsome, but still more acceptable looking than other mirrorless camera’s.
I really hope they do a better job with the retro “”hump””design than the OMD’s and the Nikon DF’s. Because these are really ugly examples of retro design. I did not mention the A7’s because I don’t consider this model as “”retro””.
The sloped shoulders of the OMD are just weird and not retro looking. The thickness and bulkiness of the Nikon DF is a joke.
Hope Fuji brings back the elegance of the 60-70’s designs of the slr.
Just my opinion 🙂
OMD alike really means SLR alike, since that’s all the EM-5 is. Acting like there’s something original about the OM-D design is just silly.
So Fuji’s going to build another retro camera. Whoopie! I’ll get excited when they build a camera with AF that can compete with Olympus or Panasonic.