An imaginary LX7 vertical grip created by a user of the SLRclub forum.
Our reader Trevor pointed out how the new Panasonic LX7 sensor may be from Sony. There is a Sony Japan pdf (download here) that describes what seems to be exactly the new LX7 sensor (From Google Translate):
9.33mm diagonal (Type 1/1.7)
Approximately 12.4 million effective pixels (4072H × 3046V)
■ pixel size: 1.85μm square pixel unit
■ shooting 35frame / s approximately 12.4 million pixels Support
■ dynamic range, high sensitivity Back-illuminated with low noise CMOS image sensor
■ Movie mode 4K2K (4096H × 2160V, 60frame / s)
So after Olympus with the E-M5 also Panasonic with the LX7 is using Sony sensors. Wondering if Panasonic will sometimes in future use Sony sensors in m43 cameras too…
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New Panasonic stuff preorders:
Black G5 at Amazon (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here)
Silver G5 at Amazon (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here)
45-150mm lens in Black at BHphoto (Click here) and in Silver at BHphoto (Click here).
LX7 in Black at Amazon (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here) in White at Amazon (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here)
Other compacts, the FZ200 at BHphoto (Click here), the FZ60 at BHphoto (Click here).
48 Responses
Unrelated to the actual news – who would want to spend time imagining and rendering a grip for a very small compact camera? Can that person come help me paint my house and be more productive instead?
gosh stfu
if you are asking help in such cynical way, nobody wants to volunteer
Some users just don’t like cameras…they love them. That’s why they’re putting energy in the smallest things.
You call this love, I call this attachment to inanimate objects bordering on fetishism. The next step could very well be a camera with self lubricating orifices.
LOOOOOL! 😀
Those who live in a glasshouse shouldn’t throw stones. You’re spending time commenting in a discussion thread, about a sensor manufacturer, on a rumour site, for a particular camera format.
I’m glad you’re here because this is an open community and the more people that are passionate about m43 the better. But it’s a dangerous hobby to judge other people for being passionate about a topic, no matter how obscure it appears to you.
I am not throwing stones neither do I live in a glass house.
My comment stands and is very relevant IMO to everything written above. Language and choice of metaphors aside, I think it opens a space for discussion and thought.
Wish you a nice day.
Let me get this straight, you call the making of the above drawing “bordering on fetishism”?
Unrelated to actual idiots – who would want to spend time painting your stupid house? Can that person spend time imagining and rendering a grip for a very small compact camera and be more productive instead?
I’d pay him to paint my house.
Anyway, your face is stupid, like Jon Lajoie would sing.
You clearly don’t get productivity.
Hopefully the GH3 sensor is at least as good as the E-M5 sensor
I wouldn’t hold my breath. My bet is, GH3 would have slightly better IQ than the GH2, while lion share of improvements would be for the video. They hardly can compete with the Sony sensors at the moment – it makes more sense at the moment to try to capitalize on the other strengths.
That said, I also cross the fingers – for the GH3 to have a comparable sensor. Though I personally would be satisfied with better color fidelity at high ISOs and 2-3EV push-ability of the RAWs.
Seems that Panasonic has gone the Canon way – maybe only large sensors be made in house. LX7 sensor may be from Samsung or Aptina, but Sony is the likeliest candidate.
OTOH this shows what the future of small sensored P&S will be – if big manufacturers are giving up producing their sensors, there’s not much life left in them.
A 12 Mpx Sony sensor for m43 would be a dream. E.g. for the Olympus PEN Line or Panasonic GXn.
Big Sensors (>= m43) are becomming an exclusive product for a small market. Sensors of mobile devices are pushing the technology. Manufacturers of only big photo sensors might give up their development sooner or later.
of course they let sony to make senzor for their P&S camera because they had a lot of work with upcoming global shutter senzor with high DR for GH3 😛
Before making claims that the sensor from the E-M5 is from Sony, can anyone point out a document which says so explicitally? The sensor of the E-M5 could be produced by anyone (including Canon), but according to my sources, the sensor is developped by olympus solely (which makes the point of who is producing it obsolete…)
Olympus manager officially stated that it is a Sony sensor!!!
What I have read is that it was for a microscope, where is said that it was for the camera ?
Agree, Sasa from Olympus comment, is only to microscope IX-3 so come out the day before, so use Sony sensor.
Comment is not to E-M5 also a sensor built in by Olympus patent.
No admin, you interpreted that an Oly official stated as such, but AFAIK it was a bad translation, which brings us to square one: there is no proof, written or other that E-M5 sensor is from Sony.
As I stated before, one source told me that Oly developped E-M5 sensor solely themselves; as to the manufacturer: who gives a damn?
The manufacturer seems to be Sony, since they already admitted that in an interview. But the design is probably done by Olympus (that why it is a Live Mos sensor).
AFAIU all “Live MOS” means is a non CCD sensor allowing for live view.
It is a trademark owned by Olympus / Panasonic so any 3rd party sensor with live view capabilities could be branded by them as such.
“Before making claims that the sensor from the E-M5 is from Sony…”
Before expressing any doubt that it’s a Sony why not let Google be your friend? The whole world seems to know it’s a Sony, apart from you.
The whole world that seems to know that it’s a Sony has it from a misinterpreted and bad translated document. That is not a proof I would lay my eggs on…
I think anonymous has an interesting idea, Sony is making the smaller sensors to allow the manufacture of the “larger” m4/3 sensor. Perhaps they are limited in their production.
The other possibility is that the Sony sensor is just better than Panasonic can make and they want the best sensor they could get. The following link discusses canon possibly using a Sony sensor since Sony makes a better sensor than canon is presently making.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=40880374
Whatever the sensor manufacture, I am hoping for more dynamic range. For me, It is the single leading reason for sticking to a full frame sensor. It is a constant struggle to keep details in clouds and not under expose the subject. (A circular polarizer only sometime works). (Or better yet a really fast dynamic range option, that allows an adjustable spread in the exposures).
This really a surprise to me .
How could a sensor maker company use other sensor for it’s product ?
Anyway I don’t care as long as it deliver , this is the main thing every consumer expect from their stuffs .
GH3 & GL ? Go ahead Pana , install with best sensors please .
That’s not unusual. Even Samsung uses Sony sensors – for example alternatively with their own sensors in their Galaxy S2 smartphone – see for example http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1443658
“How could a sensor maker company use other sensor for it’s product ?”
When it’s cheaper to buy it from someone else than making it yourself.
++1
It all comes down to cost/performance ratio. If a camera manufacturer can get a sensor from a third party supplier that meets all of their technical requirements and that costs less than they can do it in house, they are going to use the outsourced product. Why wouldn’t they?
> How could a sensor maker company use other sensor for it’s product?
That’s pretty much common practice, whenever possible. It’s basically a form of renting spare resources to other companies.
And btw it often gets even /worse/ than that, e.g.: manufacturing, assembly and packaging gets outsourced to a competitor.
That’s because when the “resources” are idling, companies are losing money. So better rent them out to a competitor and let them pay you money, instead of plainly losing money while waiting for own production volumes to catch up.
Ford are building me a custom Toyota landcruiser with a GM engine, Range Rover interior with MB seats and Fiat tuned exhaust (the most expensive part).
Oh, I forgot a fitted M9 camera with Sony NEX lenses. (now why did I say that?????)
errr 4k 60p video???
Awsome… lets hope the GH3 has 60p 4K video too… and 120p 1080 video as well!!! then it will rival the REDs!
That and its BSI sensor.
I think its not that sensor.. tho if LX7 had 4K video that would be seriously insane. Well, hack can tell later.. (imagine LX7 with 4K .. drool).
It’s not really new. Panasonic decided to go for Sony sensors already with the FZ150, and that gave them a boost in IQ. The problem is that Panasonic was making decent CCD sensors, but could never make good CMOS (or LMOS as they call them) ones. So they gave up trying with compact cameras.
With 4/3 sensors they still try, but unless the one in the GH3 changes things, they are still behind.
Pity that they (Pana and Oly) didn’t use Sony sensors in m4/3 from the beginning. They would have taken all the market if they had done so. The poor sensor performance was what kept many people from buying into the system when they had no competition. Now Oly jumped boat, but the market is already crowded.
Not true this, at least this rumor
they should use sony sensor in GH3
No, they should use Panasonic sensors. GH2 have a Panasonic sensor is two years old, and has almost the same image quality of the EM5. Panasonic should do better for this GH3 sensor.
4k video ? or 4k pictures im confuse
I am sure the video resolution is downsized in the Venus video processing chip to 1080p and 720p. The algorithm they use for that scaling will determine some of the video sharpness, of course, and can give a proprietary edge (as in the GH2).
whats wrong with Panasonic Sensor? i thought it was the jpeg engine that is lacking, not the sensor?
Perhaps the Panny sensor can’t do 60p at 1920×1080, which is the standard requirement for P&S these days
and post it on youtube highly compressed at 20FPS, yup, very useful 🙂
A guy (or girl) can spend his time however he wants, including rendering ridiculous grips that are functionally absurd.
This sensor is a BSI cmos, exactly which used on samsung EX2f.
However panasonic didn’t say lx7 using a BSI sensor, this could be
1. panasonic omits the BSI part
2. lx7 use a FSI version of this sensor, since FSI is easier and cheaper to make, so it is highly possible
3. lx7 sensor has no relation to this sensor, even not same manufacture
> Wondering if Panasonic will sometimes in future use Sony sensors in m43 cameras too…
IIRC, Admin, you haven’t posted anything about the Panny’s return to black (mostly thanks to layoffs).
I have tried to dig through the Google News for the “panasonic semiconductor” and have found not much. One observation was that Panny’s semi is coupled with its TV business and both were restructured last year. So the LX7 now with the Sony sensor might be a short term thing.
OTOH there is this interesting article:
http://www.electroiq.com/semiconductors/2012/07/27/update-fujitsu-may-sell-key-chip-plant-in-central-japan.html
Several companies – Fujitsu and Renesas – are selling off their LSI chip manufacturing (imagers (aka sensors) normally fall into the LSI (large scale IC) category too) and plan to rely on the Panasonic’s LSI foundry. IOW, Panny’s problems are not the biggest and it seems that with high probability Panny would go on producing the large imagers.
So there is a (mild) hope that Panny sensor manufacturing would survive. And after the restructuring they might even put some better competition to the Sony. ’cause I personally fully in favor of equally both: better sensors AND competition.