an imaginary ultra-compact Panasonic camera. Not a real product! 🙂
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According to one trusted source Panasonic will announce the new ultra compact camera next week on Thursday (October 10). The source didn’t share any details on the camera and new lenses yet. But we know from other sources that we can expect the following new stuff:
1) A new Panasonic GM1 very thin and small camera. Close to the Sony RX100MII in terms of size. No mechanical shutter at all. Body is made of magnesium with a leather finnish. It comes in total black, silver/black, silver/brown.
2) A new Panasonic 12-32mm compact zoom (non PZ). Even smaller than the current Panasonic X Vario PZ 14-42mm.
3) The new Nocticron 42,5mm f/1.2 lens will be in Store in December. I guess the price and final specs will be announced on October 10 too.
I can also confirm that there will be an Olympus announcement in October. More about that soon…
Stay tuned on 43rumors!
Ale.
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
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FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
96 Responses
12-32/F ????????
3.5 – 5.6 or worse. Smaller than the 14-42 PZ and starts wider? I have no hope for a bigger aperture. If it’s as sharp as the 14-42 MkII, I might be interested anyway.
ha and in real f terms ? terrible optics relying on software correction other panasonic fail as usual
f3.5-f5 is fine – its a small lens not a low light lens!
Will be amazing for totaly flexibilty and portability – 12mm is a very good starting point 28mm Equiv. is just a bit too narrow… 70mm on the long end is just right for grabbing portraits!
Overall they gave the best range for the smallest size – this is a good lens idea and does make the m43 system go from compact compact size upto a full on pro tool! A very welcome addition.
This 12-35 and the 20mm for low light and you’ve got a great take anywhere setup!
Yup!
The lens is the interesting part of the news.
I wouldn’t mind exchanging this one for my kit 14-45.
Nocticron 42,5mm f/1.2 mmm.
Lets see if it is in the same or better “IQ-league” as 75 mm from Olympus and if it has has the same build/weather protection as 12-35 and 35-100.
Well you can bet that the Nocticron will best the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 (which I own), in both build quality and bokeh…oh and also PRICE!
It w will also make the Oly 45 an even BETTER bargain! 🙂
Funny that you did not mention this lens as it is the only Olympus direct competition for the upcoming Nocticron….and it has nowhere near the build quality of any of the lenses you mentioned?? Also, the Oly 75mm (which I also own), is a fantastic lens and expensive, but it has no weather sealing either…so what exactly is your point?
Imo the closest competitor for the Noctiron is the Voigtlaender 42.5 f/0.95, which has a subtle advantage in aperture opening. The Noctitron biggest acecard will prob be its ability to focus fast AND accurate at max aperture, something for which patience and a good eye is needed with the Nokton. In my experience CDAF is much better in accuracy with with large aperture lenses then any DSLR i have used sofar. I am looking forward to the Noctitron.
I was responding to Luda who mentions all Olympus products except the one that is closest to the Nocticron…. in image quality & Autofocus, but certainly not build quality or price. The Olympus 45mm is a IQ/price combo that is hard to beat (as Jules says below)…but the Nocticron should better it in build, sharpness and bokeh…but with a hefty price premium.
The Voigt my be closer in optical quality…but I am expecting the Nocticron to be better wide open than the Voigt…
I will sell off my Olympus 45mm and buy the Nocticron if it lives up to the Panny/Leica name as long as it doesn’t go past the price of the Voigt.
Exciting times in MFT world right now!!!!!!!
Luda only mentions the 75mm which is Olympus the others 12-35 and 35-100 are Panasonic lenses last time I looked.
So your fanboy remark doesn’t hold.
It is easy to call any given lens better than an other. Just load the dices with the most convenient criteria and you got your winner. The Olympus 1.8/45 remains a solid performer for its price, size and weight and I expect a truck load of posts on “why I chose/kept/recommend the Olympus”
The Noctcron will be similar to the other Leica-branded lenses from Panasonic, like the 25mm f/1.4.
Photo here: http://www.technologytell.com/digital-photography/files/2013/08/panasonic-nocticron-lens.jpg
It will have good build quality, but not all metal.
It will have very good to excellent image quality.
It will not have any weather sealing.
It will be expensive.
Hi admin, an imaginary product looks so boring.
Boring image let panny down.
What happened to GX— or GX007?
It has been decided to name it GM 🙁
General Motors?
Will it be using the GX7 sensor as it will be a premium product?
Will the pancake zoom later be paired with another pancake(or smallish) 35-100mm zoom lens?
The Nocticron is the one to get for me .
Hopefully it will have solid build quality & optically superior on par with or even excess the Nikon 85mm F1.4 . Although these 2 elements are important but my worry still at the launching prices . Let’s hope the price will be reasonable & acceptable for us .
I am very curious what the market is for GM1 & 12-32. Ultra small says entry level to show the size advantage of m43 for upgraders (DSLR might be better … but look how small this is!). Leather finish and two colored bodies say “Hey I’m stylish”, so maybe it’s aimed specifically at women?
And about that 12-32mm. Aperture won’t be very big, given it’s extremely small size. If the GM1 is entry level, why bother with a completely new lens and not maybe an update for the PZ? 12-32mm is a very unusal focal range for a kit zoom. Bah, I have the feeling this is gonna be disappointing for most of us.
Well, I’ll happily trade 12 for 14 if the price is giving up 42 and settling for 32.
And at PZ size??? Bring it ON!!!
I agree with you Duarte. Except in my case I don’t own a zoom: if this new pancake zoom is good, it will likely replace the Panny 14/2.5 in my compact set-up.
+1
Yep….
It will be an alternative to a large sensor compact camera but more versatile as you can add different (larger) lenses when you need to.
frist that dslrs are to big now that m43 is to small get and iphone at least u will got more time to update
Spoilt for choice, we are
Although, I do wish Panny would fix the AF on their 20mm
And the Olympus announcement: hope it is a Tough m43 fixed lens. What would a fixed 15-50mm f/2.0-3.5 look like?
It is mind-boggling that Panasonic re-released the 20mm and did nothing to improve the auto focus. Very odd.
The new 20mm autofocuses faster when used on the GX7 specifically. They are meant to be together!
It is part of a system. The new version should focus faster on EVERY m43 camera.
Really insulting move by Panasonic.
Probably they would have had to re-design the optical formula to allow for fast AF. That could still be worth the effort of course. But that wasn’t in the cards this time, I think the main problem is that everyone got their hopes up with Panasonic only intended a cosmetic makeover.
How about IBIS?
Good Q. (I forgot about that.) They put that in the GL, Panny means business (and I Panny does).
… (and I _hope_ Panny does).
IBIS seems quite unlikely, because the camera body is rumored to be especially shallow; the IBIS mechanism almost certainly would create a problem there. It will be interesting to see whether the ultra-compact 12-32 has OIS. One could argue that it’s not completely necessary, but all of their zooms except 7-14 have had it.
Panasonic is doing some very intriguing products with innovative form factors.
First, the GX7 with the rangefinder body style (finally).
Now the magnesium (sounds premium) body pocket cam.
If the kit zoom (12-32mm) is high quality (regardless of f-stop) and ultra compact (presumably), then that lens will find a home with its intriguing pocket zoom form factor.
And finally, the 42.5mm will be an exciting lens if executed to PanaLeica standards as well.
And its nice these products break new ground (even the 45mm f1.2 is quite different than Oly f1.8, I’d say).
Good stuff. Fingers crossed for quality, high IQ products.
Agreed, I am looking forward to this camera!
I really think it will start at 2.8 , minimun maybe better if it’s a Leica…
The new lens is unlikely to be a Leica. Panasonic relies too much on software correction for its lenses. And 2.8 is also very unlikely because of the lenses alleged compactness.
+100
the rx100 is equiv to 14/2.5, and it’s pretty compact…
A lot of cameras do in body adjustments. And Panasonic does a good job doing it.
Whos to say optical corrections don’t degrade IQ – they do (and they cost a lot more and weigh more)- adding more flair, ghosting, lower contrast, and abberations as well as softening the image.
Any idea of GM1 price ? When i read magnesium, leather finish and “total black” (yes, no ‘just black’ but ‘total black’, something blacker than black 🙂 ) I fear the price will be that of a luxury object. Not for the average joe, for sure.
I’m very glad they’ve decided to go with this. Panny M43 have only been going up in size, also there never was a small Lumix with the advanced GH2 sensor. Now we might get one with the updated GX7 one! 🙂 It’s very cool Panasonic is pushing portability as Olympus is going for larger, ‘pro’ form factors.
Sensor? IBIS? Kit?
Sensor: hopefully high end if the camera is targeted that way.
IBIS: Unlikely due to very shallow body emphasis.
Kit: Sounds like the GM1 + new compact 12-32 go together.
Canon make a pancake zoom start at 2.8 on G1X (similar 4/3 sensor)
http://reviewbuy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sidebyside-gx1.jpg
mmmm nice – its totaly possible!
F2.8 in a 15-60mm, as small as the X 14-42!
People would buy this even if it was a bit of a premium – mind you why should it be seeing canon can knock these out at a resnoble price?
Been waiting for the 42.5. If it’s over 1000$ it’s not worth it when I could get the oly 45. It terms of bokeh the physical aperture size is 10mm bigger on the 42.5
2.4 equiv. is perfect for portraits. No need to stop down to get full body in focus. 🙂
Hoping with these new lenses from Olympus will make panasonic think twice about price.
what,..?
i thought Panasonic already decide to have a low end M43 camera line by downgrading the GF1 line,and yet another toy,.?
such a pity,…for panny ,..
how low can you go?
how much the price?,.probably $500 body and kit and it will be like $300 after 6 month,.
I would gladly pay $300 for a pocketable & stylish magnesium and leather m43 cam. That being said, I think you are probably delusional about pricing as this is going to be gunning for RX100 price territory. Probably $650 at launch and more resistant to price drops due to premium materials being used in the design.
Bigger sensor than RX100M2 means a starting price of $899. Juuuuuust below the price of fixed lens APSC cams. Any price above $700 for Panny’s junk… will be a nail on its coffin before it even exits the assembly line.
If paired w/ a f3.5 lens, then it becomes a running joke for competitors to salivat, during watercooler breaks.
Another clearance sale during the holidays.
“SEND OUT THE TROLLS!”
See Admin…? Its bad enough for the unwarranted Panasonic hate, but then they have to toss in “Panny Junk”, calling a camera they haven’t even read the specs about “A toy” and “its a Pity”?
No, its a pity reading these unwarranted attacks. . that’s what makes this site a joke.
Right now perhaps the smallest Mr4/3rds camera with the better sensors is the Olympus EMP2. Lets see if the Panasonic is better than that – and it is very likely to be neither junk nor a pity.
Here’s a GM1 mockup photo from nphoto.net:
http://www.nphoto.net/news/2013-09/30/26ee1163a0595668.shtml
Thanks for the link, but that looks extremely much like a Sony RX100-II with a M43 lens mount cloned on. Quick mockup job – there’s no brand logo, nor is there a lens release button. I don’t think that’s even a speculative improvement on Admin’s well-used GL1 mockup photo.
We’ll see the real thing soon.
Having seen and held the real thing (albeit not the most recent prototype) this mockup and the RX100 look is fairly accurate. Put GX7 retro design cues on an RX100 with an m4/3 mount and you have the GM1.
The 12-32mm won’t have a wide aperture – it shouldn’t be expected at that size anyway, but it’s worth clarifying. I can’t speak with authority on IQ since my time with it was brief, but my initial impression was that it lined up well with other recent Panny kit lenses: good, but not excellent.
It has a mini-Leica look to it for me. Maybe they will make it a model.
The GM1 will look faux-retro in the style of the GX7. the colors and “leather-finish” suggest that.
The mockup is pretty sloppy, because there is quite a lot of space below and above the mount, which would make it alsmost as tall as a GF6: http://camerasize.com/compare/#315,467 I expect the top and bottom of the camera to be almost level with the mount.
What a bunch of idiots this site is now attracting. You should all just go shoot yourselves in the head, as you have nothing to contribute to society. The lack of knowledge evidenced in this comments thread is staggering.
Narretz: a wider lens doesn’t require a larger physical aperture, but a smaller
one. The 32mm long end means this lens needs a smaller physical aperture for any given f-stop. Learn some math before you embarrass yourself again.
Narretz & Damn Oly: A magnesium body with leather covering says anything BUT entry level. Learn to read and analyze.
Phred: Why are you whining about the 20mm lens in a post about something totally different? Get over your disappointment and get on with your life, if you have one.
Jens, Gabriel, Milt: This is a RUMOR. Admin posted what he knows. Why do you guys think anyone here knows the answer to your questions? Just wait until some real information is available.
Another FAIL (and Damn Oly): Why don’t you guys get jobs and move out of your Mom’s basements, so you have real work to keep you busy, instead of wasting your lives trolling sites where no one cares about you in the slightest? Do you have no pride at all?
Oh thanks, I learned something today, you impolite idiot.
Nevertheless, a bigger max aperture needs a bigger front element, and for such a small collapsing lens, this will be no small feat.
It’s obvious you were being ignorant towards this camera, when clearly he mentioned “Magnesium body” and Leather deatils. Admit that you’re hating on the camera.
Sad thing is you’re complaining and hating on a camera that isnt out yet. You even stooped so low by commenting on a Mock-Up, by calling it sloppy? Where’s YOUR mock up?? Can you do better? -DOUBTFUL.
You’re patheticti have the nerve of calling someone out because he corrected you, and like a child, you got upset and responded in a childish manner.
“Nevertheless, a bigger max aperture needs a bigger front element, and for such a small collapsing lens, this will be no small feat.”
No, it appears to haven’t learned anything. The physical size of the aperture is directly related to both f-stop AND focal length. For example, a 42mm f/3.5 requires an entrance pupil (closely related to aperture) of 12mm. With a 32mm lens, the same physical entrance pupil would result in an f-stop of 2.7. So a 12-32 f/2.8 could easily be the same physical size as the 14-42 X lens.
The rumor is that this lens won’t have power zoom, which could make it even smaller. And if one makes the assumption, as some have, that this lens won’t have IS but rather rely on IBIS in the new bodies, it could be smaller still.
I think the statement a bigger max apature (given a set mm) requires a bigger front element is correct… by definition the apature increases so does the width of the lens…??
Okay, let’s see: the 14-42PZ has a diameter of 6cm. 14mm 3.5 needs 4cm diameter front element. 12mm 3,5 needs 3,4cm, make it 2,8 and you are at 4,2cm. So it is bigger, no? What I don’t understand is with this calculation, for 42mm 5.6 you’d need 7,5cm! That is bigger than the diameter of the whole lens?! Yes, but that’s because you can use backfocus design and whatnot, to make the lesn front element smaller.
Also, looking at this: http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/13387/why-is-the-front-element-of-a-telephoto-lens-larger-than-a-wide-angle-lens For wideangle, you actually have to consider the FOV, too. Don’t know if this applies to 12mm already, but there’s definitely more in play here.
42mm @ F5.6 = 7.5cm… think you went the wrong way with your calculations….
42mm F1 = 42mm wide lens, 1385 area
42mm F2 = 30mm wide, 706 area
42mm F2.8 = 21mm, 350 area
42mm F4 = 15mm, 175 area
42mm F5.6 = 10.6mm, 88 area
Note the diamerter is not halfing each stop (diameter loses 1/3 each stop) but the area is… that is half the light each time you stop down. – but not half the diameter!
Dam sorry missed F1.4 – well just read F2 as F1.4, F2.8 as F2, and so on…
Thanks, very good explanation. I only saw people explain it with F2.
I’m sure FOV comes into it – just look how big that Nikon F2.8 6mm lens is – its the size of a football but only gives a 6mm F2.8 image on a 35mm sensor…
Double check your math, friend.
As for the link, I don’t think you understood it, either. FOV is simply an analog for focal length, and you have to consider it for any focal length, not just wide angle.
The math is very simple. The f-stop is simply the focal length divided by the entrance pupil, which for most lenses is essentially the aperture.
Hey I like this post! Well, a bit rude, but amusing.
The price of the f1.2 lens will be near $1K.
source?
That would be v. nice. In fact I will need a replacement for the E-M1. One thing however I dissent with is returning to LCD. After having used the OLED of the E-M5, I find it the only game in town outdoors, especially with shutter-touch AF, The fact that the hue might be off, I don’t mind one bit.
First of all one must SEE the target, and not just imagine it 🙂
25/1.4 cost 449€ in France.
I think 42.5/1.2 will costs 799€ because it’s a little bit lighter and have stabilizer. Dont’t forget Olympus 45/1.8 is not pricey and Panasonic cannot compete with. And dont forget also voightlander is lighter and is so sharp at f/2 cost already 999€ (but no AF and no stabilizer).
it’s sad schneider did not plan an 40 to 45 lens.
overprided point and shoot for wannabes pros hipsters and asian girls
I think FF is a hysterical asian hipster’s girl , exited by full frame lenses and really boring.
totaly agree – F1.2 get you that shitty thin DOF FF suffers from….
will it have global shutter?
if so it will be very interesting.
I have been a Panasonic GH2 user for the last couple of years. It’s a great video setup. But unless Panasonic announces a 4K GH4/5 soon, I will be looking at Sony or others.
C’mon Panasonic. You are falling behind at your own game!
c’mon GH3 has just been released end of 2012.. let Panasonic working on the future GH.. you are lucky to have an GH2, it’s an awesome camera.. you should be faithful 😀
The Panasonic GH3 SHOULD have had 4K capability if Panasonic was doing it right. We will be seeing ALL the players coming out with 4K in full force as we wrap up 2013. 2014 will be the year of 4K. Heck, even the smartphones have 4K capability now.
totalt agree – WTF is it with m43…. I think they are too concerned with protecting current intrests rather than making it the best it can be for the money!
Oly should have had full support for all HD video standard – its their top camera but compacts whip it for video??
4k should be in the next top panasonic cam (if they want to be seen as the video guys, since everyone has full HD now – save Oly) – with full frame rates of course. Then I don’t think anyone but the most snobby of directors and hollywood would use anything else!
All I have heard over my life is so and so is not good enough you need this or that – then only to look back 3 or 4 years later (because what was top dog is now not even alowd in the house) and laugh at the pointlessness of all that BULL that was said 4 years ago… N.B. The BBC broardcast a timelapse I did using an oly 770sz… They asked if I have an SLR I said yes (I did) – but I did not use it… did they know? nope! 😀 The issue hear being what the hell does it matter what its shot on? all that matters is the IQ out – its an idiots way of saying I can’t make a judgement and go with the pack… Had similar with Image libry submissions – back in the day they wanted 6Mpix (this was because only DSLRs did 6Mpix at the time 4Mpix was top for pocket cam – again a way of being snobby without foundation… cut a long story short Photoshop – Image/image size = 6Mpix – filter/sharpen/unsharp mask – send, Image liked, payment recived 🙂
They should assimilate pro and consumer… Deviding the market is deviding progress… the top end stuff takes very little more to make (some bits might well do – but mostly its just the same stuff without false restrictions). – the cost has already been spent to get the fab up might as well just place all them nice sensors in all your cams and turn the volume upto 11… i.e. don’t cripple the GH cams so the AF series can be sold at premium, scrap the Af intergrate all into the GH series… no need for 2 sectors – its just so old school thinking… – big profit comes from big numbers not big margins!
Not a popular oppinion I’m sure but its the way its going… unless you want to get on a high horse about IQ in which case where does it stop? (note the pointless ness of IQ with beta cam – people went to silly cost and lengths for what still amounts to a below average image at best – no matter what you did its now just beta cam) – I would argue that good well implemented HD from larger sensor cams is probably as good as it needs to be currently (for anyone not going to film)! – Imax only uses 2k projectors, LCDs have colour casts, Plasma has low contrast… – except when they goto film – but then you have shitty frame rates that make the image jump 60cm every frame on the cinama screen. – the next format that will be worth the diffrence is 4k but only at 60-120fps… at 30fps it will be like spending a pound to save a penny!
END RANT
Idiot. No one had 4K in an amateur level camera when the GH3 was released.
How many people really need 4K video? Unless you’re shooting professional movies, to be shown on the big screen, 4K just isn’t needed. There are probably only 12 people in the entire U.S. with 4K TV sets.
I would argue that there are thousands of people with 4K sets in the US right now. Every Best Buy store carries them now. You can also go online and check to see how many are sold by Amazon and others.
I should think the main 4k market will end up being the home not the big screen! – main issue tho is getting 4k to the home… it takes up a lot of radio spectrum bandwidth to move 4k about… and nowdays that bandwidth is probably better used on somthing else rather than TV… ok cable will do it – but I think thats only realy big in the USA? not many in EURO have cable TV… (I think)…
So I guess the first market will probably be a disc format or stramed 4k over pootube!
“12” was an exaggeration to make a point. But even if you’re right about “thousands” that’s still a trivial number in a population of nearly 300 million. There are probably a hundred million HD sets in use.
Will you just listen to yourself? Your thought process is wacko.
4K requires much more bandwidth and storage space than 1080P, the current 32GB from smartphone is not enough
Go on Youtube and search for “Samsung Note 3 4K” and see the results.
@ narrets you are really a fanboy did u ever use a real camera did you any link of your killer pics
so is it going to get global shutter or not?
NEXT Gh-5
-we have the body, nothing to invent here.
INSIDE
2k 10 bit global shutter 1200,-$
out
This camera looks OK.. Small is a viable niche, and there is potential to outperform the 1″ competition.
In that vein, Panasonic really needs to launch a rugged/waterproof m43 cam. A fixed wide-angle (24-65 equiv) zoom would be fine, although Nikon has raised expectations with its interchangeable-lens entry.. Panasonic has produced some fine rugged P&S cameras. It is surprising that they have waited this long to extend this success into their m43 line
Thinking about this body, it seems to me that m4/3rds now has 3 body types in its system: the minis like the GM1 and EPM2, the medium sized small cameras like the GX7 (and its predecessors the GF1 and GX1 and larger PENs) and the larger but still small DSLR styled cameras like the GH3 and EM-1 (the EM-5 being a compromise between the latter two categories.) High to very high quality lenses are mix and match, according to the size and desired use of the camera as a whole. IQ with the latest sensors is now good enough to be able to use these bodies and lenses to express different kinds of photographic purposes without compromise.
This seems to me to be a notable achievement of Olympus and Panasonic together, and something that no other integrated body and lens system can claim. I am happy to be on board.
A note: When I say without compromise I mean without real world compromise apart from extreme pixel peeping.