Olympus just launched that teaser site (Click here). On this site you can share your email to get notified when the camera will be unveiled (likely on September 10). Obviously there is nothing to hide right now. We saw the E-M1 from every possible angle. But there is still at least one small surprise to come. Stay tuned on 43rumors. I am double checking these little” secret” and waiting for a FT5 confirmation!
UPDATE: There is also a Olympus Europe teaser (Click here).
Meantime another source confirmed that the body only price will be close to $1,500. If that is over your budget check out the new E-M5 deals at Sunset Electronics:
[shoplink 41317 ebay]Body only can be bought for $799 (Click here)[/shoplink] and with [shoplink 41316 ebay]14-42mm kit lens for $899 (Click here)[/shoplink]. An E-M5 successor is expected to come in late 2014 only.
234 Responses
maybe it is an E-7 instead of E-M1
Nope. Too much wishful thinking. It is the E-M1.
I’m 100% sure that the whole em-1 hype that has been generated are all baseless fakes to generate publicity for a failing company. The purportedly leaked photos look photoshopped from the em-5.. There’s no way Oly would design something as ugly as this. There’s no logic to the 12-40 lens given that the perfectly good 12-35 exists. Only time will tell.
Yeah right. I bet Colin Powell is behind this!
We need hope on James Bond can help us in the next Agent-007 movie. 😛
best idea i ever heard !
but 007 uses only canon and nikon camera hahaha
im not a nikon fan or canon fan boy haha oly or nothing … side kick fuji camera haha
Perhaps you should give this a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju_by-sC79c
😉
Please take your medication before posting
The Panasonic 12-35mm is designed with in-camera CA correction in mind.
Olympus bodies do not correct this CA.
There is plenty of logic in releasing the Olympus 12-40mm.
Sadly, Olympasonic inconsistency (1. IBIS vs OIS… 2. No in-body CA correction vs In-body CA correction) creates in incentive to prefer matching bodies and lens to the same brand.
Olympasonic should compete, but based on uniform standards to keep the format as unified as possible.
I think the is of course E-M1 now, and E-7 come soon maybe in November.
This is absolute very good of Olympus, we have an nice camera so we kan use one all lens one, and an E-7 so is likely build as an tank.
Google “sunset electronics better business bureau”
Lame
@”full frame”
troll much?
My summar vacation will finish soon to. Much free time :p
Going back to elementary school, eh?
Probably. He obviously needs to practice his english…
Time to learn English.
This site is used by people from all over the world and I believe that Admin is German, assuming everyone should have perfect English is rather narrow minded.
Assuming everyone should strive to improve their language skills is entirely different from assuming that everyone should have perfect language skills. Not to mention that he is a troll with crappy English. So, rather than going into personal attacks, try to think. And I am not a native speaker either, by the way.
You obviously don’t come here very often, or you would understand that full frame’s first language is English, and he deserves everything he gets
yep,.
same like you Full of [F] Lame
Neither am I, why is it too many people spelled “too” as “to”? 😉
Because the world is dumbing down with their cell phones!!!
a camera as revolutionary as I am?
I’m not very revolutionary…. this is a pretty crappy marketing line.
Maybe it’s aimed at Fidel Castro?
They’re trying to hit the Che Guevara market: http://parasolphotography.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/110131136.jpg
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=A2N-zeJFp9c5PM&tbnid=DLtPOB575Iq4cM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanpop.com%2Fclubs%2Fche-guevara%2Fimages%2F30524285%2Ftitle&ei=_QceUtK4L6insQT55IHYBw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.cWc&psig=AFQjCNGim8H30VG0wyZdzsNK4gUE34FgYQ&ust=1377786232518079
“small surprise to come” is it apps?
3 new art filers:
Red.. makes your white balance too red, like past e-series cameras.
Green… makes your white balance all green like Nikon cameras.
Blue… makes you feel blue because you thought art filters would be so exciting and useful.
Blue would be Panasonic.
@Mattphoto
Art filters are exciting and useful, I’m totally going to smash it with art filters once I get my E-M1
new IS unit
….maybe new versions of the Four Thirds lenses will be going back into production 🙂
Think so too, not new versions but new types, or canceled ones(like the long promised 100mm f/2.0)
With Olympus ZD’s tendency to produce near-silent lenses for video use, any re-issued pro lenses would have to include this feature. Besides, they can make faster lenses optimized to take full advantage of the new hybrid sensor.
they were never out of production and are still being made
@Riley
I find it impossible that any have been newly produced recently it’s more likely that Olympus definition means they have kept their tooling and capacity to quickly restart production…
I think they have been making these lenses all the time, right to now. The asian web sites on ebay have them and these guys do NOT keep non selling stock on hand. I think they are still selling and still being made.
We all want good deals, but please be very careful with Sunset Electronics.
Because your money will disappear off into the Sunset? 😉
Body only $1500.. so that means 1500 euros in Europe. Sucks to be european, everything is converted just by adding € instead of $.
It’s because you have VAT. You also get 6 weeks vacation every year and free health care so stop complaining.
Nothing is free… if your government says ”FREE” you better believe your gonna be rammed in the hole with high tax or something that is life degrading bs.
Yeah, except that US taxes pay for useless crap like aircraft carrier battle groups and tax write-offs for multinational corporations and the ultra rich.
We have the freedom to starve, slowly wither from horrible diseases and become destitute waiting to freeze to death living in cardboard boxes on the street.
Live Free or Die…
In America the fanatics point to the 1 in 7 who make it out of poverty and exclaim if they can do it, anyone can. Ask the congressman from Idaho, Raul Labrador, if because he was a 1 in 7 that means he’s on a winning team? 1 in 7 is a losing record. Find me a team that wouldn’t fire their head coach. Or shuffle their roster. Find me a company that would be satisfied with 1 in 7 of their employees making their goals. Find me a country where its conservative politicians mock progressives for belittling the less fortunate by daring to dwell on their condition. Easy. USA. 1 in 7. Don’t focus on the 6 they tell us. Focus on the 1.
Yeahhh…. our governments need to learn from Afghanistan government
Nice to hear that there are some progressive minds left in the US 🙂
That said, the VAT most often only explain part of the price difference with the US. For instance VAT deducted, the Adobe softwares cost me between 30-40% more than you have to pay in the US. How can they justify that now since everything is virtual within the creative cloud ? Same is true even for products manufactured/designed outside of the US, like cameras, although the difference can be less striking and varies between brands (Olympus has been farer than Panasonic for instance). 15-25% more is frequent
Don’t confuse Adobe with real companies. They do the rip off in Australia as well. Paintshop pro x6 is out and all 64 bit. I use ACDSee pro 6 as my raw converter and primary photo app (better than LR)with Topaz (clarity is magic). Don’t need adobe any more ‘all gone’
If it was just down to our various VAT systems in Europe we would at worst be paying around 20% more when in reality it is more liable to be 50% .To make maters worse the EU mFT market is significantly larger than the USA Mft market so there are no honest justifications for it. On the up side we often get the gear first due no doubt to higher demand and higher profit margins
Nothing is free you moron!
No one asked for free stuff, only for fair international prices.
Now with the Internet we knows the prices in other countries, so we can see the differences clearly.
However, big corporations are already trying to wall the different national markets preventing you to order from elsewhere : some are fair, like Phase One other not, like DXO.
“Free care” not really. I give 1.5 month salary every year to the government 🙁 And even if i’m in the so call middle class, this camera is simply too costly, i don’t make better picture with this one than a GX7 or a 500$/€ Nex.
And there is something call the cost of life, maybe 1500$ means it’s quite cheap in US, but here in France, 1500€ (or 9900 Francs) is a lot of money for sure 🙂
The point is that you don’t give that money to the government but to the community. The efficiency of the return may be questionned but the principle is to choose between civilisation and law of the jungle.
oly international
http://special.olympus.eu/s/coming-soon/?olycmp=omdglt
“There’s something big on the horizon.
A new OLYMPUS flagship camera with interchangeable lenses.”
-> lenseS (plural)
That’s a great image they’re using, and it really plays up some cool things.
1) It’s an Olympus site with an Olympus camera announcement, yet they have no problem showing ALL the native Micro 4/3 lenses….that image has all the Panasonic lenses, all the Voigtlander lenses, even the Tokina 300mm is in there. That’s really cool, and something both Oly and Panny should really talk up way more than they do. There is simply a HUGE lens system for m4/3, and they should push it more often.
2) I love that all the 4/3 glass is in the back. Obviously, we know the E-M1 will do great with 4/3 glass, but it’s neat to see in the image. I’d love for them to publish a non-faded version without the sensor over top of it for us m4/3 enthusiasts.
INDDED, they should have done this from the begining, having 2 totaly different companies making lenses and cameras for the same system is one of main advantages we have!
imagine if canon and nikon did the same!
compare to the lens lineup image with E-M5 last time this one look much solid
Didn’t even really look before you mentioned it, thanks!
1): yes, almost embarrassing. After moving from dslr to m43 I actually need more room for the lenses. But it sure is loads of fun.
ADMIN any news on the OMD-EM6?
This is not the time, my son.
An E-M5 successor is expected to come in late 2014 only. DAM 🙁 i guess that gives me allot of time to save up 🙂 o an how LATE IN 2014? if admin can give a little info 🙂
I see you would not agree with my experience that new cameras are coming *too* quickly nowadays…
at last, a camera mirrorless with apsc sensor (Obviously with 3:2 aspect ratio and not the fuck1n sh1t 4:3 aspect), global shutter, 1/8000 speed, 14 steps of dynamic range, screen tiltable like gh3 or d5200, and incredible iq video with all-i and raw video.
ill get 10 units 🙂
sorry but dreamig is free, and sorry for my english
I like 4:3 more then 3:2 🙂
I crop both 3:2 and 4:3 to 5:4, as any real photographer should. FACT: serious sensors should be 1:1, so we can all move on.
Maybe serious sensors should be round so you could choose your aspect yourself 🙂
Why don’t you look for an other APSC camera if that is what you want ? Sony has an interesting offering and isn’t bad at video either.
If it has a global shutter, they have a new customer.
Nah we listened to you alle btchn that it should be slr so we have cancelled the em1 and made the e5 reloaded with only a newer sensor of 2,5 years ago which is still newer as it was and no we did not fix the focus issues….
If you do not like that there is the omd
Just kidding of course I can only hope the surprise might be integrated flash or indeed more as one shg lens…
The 25/1.8 ???
If the price and iq would be similar than 45mm f/1.8, this would be bestseller. Also on top of my list.
It will come only in pink.
Being “revolutionary” tends to get you shot in China
Sinking to a new low. Or maybe the usual?
In the leaked photos have we seen the bottom view of the camera? Does it take a new high capacity battery or two of the E-M5 batteries or just one E-M5 battery? The actual specs and how they go about doing PD and CD AF systems and how it actually works is a question. The other lens(or lenses) that will be announced with the E-M5. Is there an E-Series camera actually going to be released? Still a alot of questions to be answered in the next few weeks.
It takes a single E-M5 battery.
Many thanks for the information. I was expecting a single E-M5 battery but was kind of hoping they figured out how to put an extra one in the grip. Anyhow’ I am on the pre-order list for the E-M1 and the 12-40 f2.8 lens.
Admin, any news if the 12-40 2.8 will be a kit lens for the EM-5 or E-P5 also?
This is not revolution. This is a nice camera but wayyyyyy to expensive.
Shenkie admits it’s nice. I can see a happy ending for all of us.
A couple threads back you said you were getting one.
Yeah i am gonna buy one. I like the system but i think its still to expensive for what you get (picture and video quality is not that good in comparison to APSC). But my family is going to enjoy it.
we haven’t seen the ports on the camera yet.
I hope it will probably be support for 24P, higher bitrate video?
We actually don’t know all – no one has definitively answered if the screen is fully articulating. That is quite useful (love it in my G series Pany).
@Rahul,
+1 for fully articulating screen!
Oh what a huge hump you have, em1
How long before someone hacks the gx7?
Hopefully the announcement is something to do with Raw video quality and more frame rates.
If not then Olympus will have handed market share to Blackmagic who are bound to release
a 4K video and stills MFT camera on or before NAB 2014.
the only problem with blackmagic is they announce cameras they never deliver
@RayF
I’d take a closer look at the most recent Black Magic reviews if I was you….
they are fantastic , the problem is actually getting your hands on one , terrible at shipping product
Reports of blooming which can’t be fixed in post.
Who cares about 4K video? Nobody will really need it, not in the next 10 years.
Who needs 36MP FF? You get talked into it.
The problem for mirrorless cameras is that there doesn’t seem to be a happy medium between price and specs.
You have the cheapo Sony 3000 and the Olympus E-M1 coming within weeks of each other at opposite ends of the spectrum, but both missing the mark.
What is wrong with Pana G-series? G5 with lens can be had as cheap as a3000, but a better all-around camera: better EVF, better screen – and fully articulated one, better controls, faster sequential shooting, faster focusing, more powerful flash…
Couldn’t agree more. I was hoping for an lower-end OMD. Something without weather sealing, maybe without the 5-axis stabilization or a lower-res EVF.
$700 would be nice.
Relax, 699$/€ or 799$/€ should be the new OM-D price after E-M1 launch and wider GX7 availibilty. I am waiting, too. 😉
I’m waiting for only one surprise:
8/9 mm f2/f2.8 crisp sharp weathersealed (not mandatory) prime ! with filter thread and this is mandatory !
Who will be the first to get my money ? and who wants a not so sharp 9-18 mm f4-5.6 ? 😀
Yes, a 8 or 9mm f2.8 with filter threads would be great, especially if the 12-40 f2.8 is good at 12.
I really tempted to get the E-m1 with bundle kitlens 12-40 and HL-D7 battery grip,.but somehow i feel like have to wait until i read some review ,.especially about this EM-1 PDAF on a 43 glass and also the lens 12-40 ,.coz ,.now ,.i still have the 14-54 f2.8-3.5 mkII and also the f2/12mm
my point is if the camera PDAF is really excellent i might just stay with 14-54mm which is already know with excellent optic,.more longer FL in the end [54mm] and can do macro too,.if i’m not mistaken this 14-54mm at 40mm have an f3.2 aperture which is only 1/3 from f2.8 . and for shorter FL at 12mm , i stick with the F2/12mm which is small ,light, with pull down manual -ZONE FOCUSING and also has one more stop faster than 2.8
well i guess is a tough decision. ,,but if the 12-40 has A SUPERB like [S]HG optic quality,.i might force to buy it
Any 43 users who are still saying this is expensive or whatever is so ungrateful. Remember what you got in the E-5, an outdated camera with such ordinary IQ even at launch.
You better buy the E-M1, all you 43 owners, or Olympus will never bother making any cameras again, which is fine with me as I don’t have any 43 lenses and will never buy any.
In fact, I think Olympus can do much better by concentrating on the next OM-D, the real M43 camera uncompromised by 43 considerations, the camera for the rest of us and all the countless new users, potential buyers, now that they have deliver something to the 43 users and can forget them for another 3 years.
A primary question is how well the EM1 is able to autofocus FT lenses compared to the FT E-x bodies. I own FT bodies/lenses and I might buy the EM1 if it lives up to such expectations.
OTOH, probably very few EM1 owners will buy FT lenses just because the camera could work with them. Mainly FT compatability will appeal to those of us already owning FT lenses. In any case, FT lenses or not, the camera’s benefits will apply to mFT too.
So there is nothing “special” about the EM1 that will not be useful to mFT as well, and PDAF, etc., will be inherited by future Oly mFT cameras, meaning future cameras will also be intrinsically FT compatible at no additional cost.
Anyway, that seems to be where it’s headed…
@jrapdx
Four thirds lenses have advantages over their micro four thirds equivalents like not using software correction, aperture rings, distance scales, weather sealing, better coatings on the lenses, higher build quality etc so it might make sense for Olympus and Leica to start remaking updated versions (like Pentax/Ricoh announced yesterday)
For every whiner here, I reckon there are at least 10 sane 4/3 shooters with a life (otherwise, reality would simply be too absurd). It’s the silent majority voting with their wallets that decides.
The m43 system is still going strong after years of verbal abuse on forums. Now the E-M1 gets criticized. I truly enjoy reading those posts filled with unsubstantial claims and insane marketing advice. They tend to confirm m43 is slowly but surely maturing.
Just imagine how uplifting this all will be in 2-3 years time, when the first “serious” Canikon EVIL cameras should appear. Think of the troubles with lens compatibility (AF, flange distance vs body size, IBIS). (If Canikon is still producing cameras using expensive dust-slinging mirror boxes, that will be “interesting” too, of course. Ahem.)
The E-M2 and E-M7 should be on the market around then. Pany will be doing its thing, too. The m43 RF segment will have reached maturity. Imagine the posts: after denial and rage, what do we get? I think I’ll be off to the next underdog by that time. 😀
Well I guess that special news could be a new Pro lens 40-100 or 40-150.
where is the revolution?????? i would say an evolution of em5
isnt the camera under the blanket too tall to be an e-m1?
It probably has the small flash attached.
stop looking under my blanket
Revolutionary lets see
not really
1.16mp mFT sensor
2. 5-axis IS
3. Weather sealed
4. 9fps
5. image quality will be identical give or take a bit of JPEG processing
on the up side better EVF
Alleged better PDAF for FT lenses i will believe that when I see it.
Price yep Revolutionary a mFT camera as expensive as some FF DSLR’S with those expensive prisms and 4x larger sensor
@anonymous
Wow! You know all the exact specs and features of the E-M1 do tell all….
It’s only revolutionary if it delivers on CAF, meaning it being as fast but more reliable as the top offerings of Canon and Nikon, because today there’s no mirrorless camera on the market that can do that.
Else it’s just evolutionary.
Is that a square sensor? Did their idea of a whole frame come true? It would be awesome.
No, it’s still 4/3’s ratio unless you have severe astigmatism or incorrect screen settings. 😉
yeah i just measured it, it’s 72 x 54 pixels, so 4/3. It looked pretty square on the first sight.
I do wish they realized the square whole frame idea!
My EM-1 has a cracked bezel and the strap lug is loose and the VF makes the damnedist sound, like a one legged humming bird taking off, six inches from your ear. Anyone else noticed these things?
No, haven’t used or seen your camera.
No, haven’t seen any one legged humming bird.
Mine also has a cracked bezel and the mode wheel fell off! Oly charged me 100 $ to glue it back on. The hdl6 also broke down completely. All 3 things seem to be a common thing
Not common things I am afraid.
They charged you 100$ because you are a Panyslut!
What version firmware do you have in it?
Your EM1 has already developed these faults, it’s a good thing that it’s happened now then, it means Olympus can place it in the reject box and just let you have the next one of the production line. The camera has not even been announced yet, let alone have any of them been sold, the only ones that have been used will be the very few in the hands of those photographers connected with Olympus, in which case Olympus would not be charging to fix it just replacing and looking for the weakness to put right in production. Now go back to your cave and play with your Pentax 110.
It was a trap for true homer. It worked.
So, that thing in the middle of the picture, looks like digital View Camera back.
That’s what I thought at first too. We must be dating ourselves. It’s supposed to be the sensor module, but on first look I thought, what’s the deal with sticking a view camera in there?
… do I see a Mirror Lens (Cat) in the 2nd photo, directly below the HUGE image of the sensor assembly?
Tamron 300mm/5.6
Ya I say that Mirror as well. It would be great if Olympus release a Mirror lens, but most likely its the one that came out last year from a Tokina. Not tamron.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/tokina_300mm.shtml
@David B
Olympus DID make one. A while ago. It was a Zuiko Reflex 500mm f8.0 (fixed aperture) and only measures 100mm in length mounted. It was for the OM 135mm film system, but is still quite relevant today mounted via OM adapters on a 4/3 or m4/3 body. On 4/3 or m4/3 it delivers a whopping 1000mm telephoto! For tripod use obviously but it works, and works well in manual mode. I am extremely fortunate, I have one and it just reinforces the great flexibility of the 4/3 system being able to use legacy lenses.
The image quality of this Zuiko 500mm far exceeds any recent iterations of this type of lens.
i have zuiko 500mm/8 reflex and use it successfully handheld on my E-M5, i rarely use tripod
Hey! maybe a new sensor Mega-Four Thirds…smaller than FF, but larger than 4/3rds. LOL
Admin, the only thing that matters about this camera is a significant video improvement. The photo side was already fine. When are you going to post video specs. Start posting rumors at FT1 through FT4 please. I want a rumor site, not a news site. I know when you post less reliable rumors that they might not be right. The fun of rumors though is speculation, and you have been keeping a lid on anything other than facts lately. Lets hear about the video performance! Otherwise, we’ll have to hope the GH4 has 5 axis stabilization of the NEX FF will have good video specs to go along with the 5 axis.
Oly appears to be in control here.
With the Engadget leak, the thunder is lost 🙁
@Admin, Just tell us what the surprise is as an FT4, if you cannot confirm that quickly. Thanks
That sensor looks almost square. Olympus giving us Multi-Aspect Ratio?!
Looks too big relative to the lenses. I don’t think it’s an M43 sensor.
I think the sensor is supposed to be in front, that’s why it’s so large.
I was thinking the same thing, but it is still 4/3rds ratio, as measure by the pixels.
Or, it’s the new 4″ x 5.3″ sensor that is finally going to silence all the full-frame put-downs!
Measures 11×8.3 mm on my monitor. It’s 4:3.
Can you see the PD cells? 🙂
I’m not a Four-thirds user. My whole investment is in M43 lenses and bodies. I have to give kudos to Olympus though for not giving up on 43. As an owner of several orphaned Sony technologies (not cameras), I have to admire Olympus’ stand in trying to breathe new life into the old format. Nice job, Olympus. 🙂
Agreed.
Minolta orphaned the MD mount. Canon orphaned the FD mount. Everyone but Leica orphaned the screw mounts; Leica almost dumped the M, didn’t, but then sort of dumped the R… And now we have mirrorless cameras to adopt them all!
What about Olympus and Pen F mount, and OM mount?
Still have lenses from both eras (and bodies too). It’s fun to use these orphans with mFT (albeit in manual, stop-down mode), but leads to thoughts: will mFT be cast aside, abandoned like its ancestors?
We’re always just taken for a ride…
Good point!
Hopefully, by then, Pentax Q will have 16-bit dynamic range and have a built-in phone. Maybe there will be a MicroQ with 5mm flange distance. Fotodiox will have full-electronic adapters, and Metabones will be putting out more Speed Boosters. Then all the 4/3 and µ43 people will go to the MicroQ rumor site and pick on them for their small sensors and “unprofessional” features. Meanwhile, the much-rumored Nano4/3 system is delayed again, and we all hope that it will come with the adapter for µ43 lenses, although they will be much too big for the teeny body…
Did you know, by the way, that the Q already has 11 bit DR, better than the E-PM1? I didn’t until just now! I feel threatened already…
Hmm. NanoFT sensor size. Maybe not even visible to the naked eye…
BTW, Pentax Q10 has nearly *13* bit DR (at ISO 100, RAW). Wouldn’t worry about it though, since at 400-800+ has killer NR in jpeg, and plain noisy in RAW. DR falls off quickly too.
Sure, add a few parts and it IS a phone. Or put a lens on a phone and, oh wait, Sony is doing that already.
And even better, Intel announced they’re developing a web cam, coming to a phone/tablet near you (last half 2014), that tracks what your eyes are doing (are you really paying attention?) and reads your emotions. Really.
Film was, on the whole, a lot less spooky.
It looks like Jennifer Lopez under the cover!
If the price also includes the adapter, I can see myself picking one up along with a grip. However, don’t charge me an extra $350+ for the adapter and grip. I’m serious about the adapter part as well, since they have a teaser showing all of the four thirds lenses, if they want to really make them consider purchasing one, the grip needs to be in the box (at least in my humble opinion).
erm
yeah that looks like a deal worth having to me
@Ian
The only way Olympus would or should consider free adapter is either for current Panasonic or Olympus four thirds owners ( provide they send in photo if their camera serial numbers) or when purchasing the higher priced Four Thirds lenses. They shouldn’t provide adapters free for all to people who might never use them and just stick them on eBay.
> They shouldn’t provide adapters free for all to people who
> might never use them and just stick them on eBay.
Good point! I didn’t think that Olympus was really going to include an adapter with the EM1, for the very reason you mention.
Besides some of us FT lens owners have already bought the mmf3, though would take another for free if offered (but probably won’t).
I have the MMF-1, but I’d like the MMF-3 along the E-M1 for free.
There’s no functional difference between them except weathersealing.
I am sure this will be a great camera in every way…yet I wonder if Olympus is not pricing it too high.
To quote Ming Thein:
Mirrorless is simply much simpler – and therefore cheaper – to produce….
Even the most complex of the mirrorless cameras – the OM-D with it’s 5-axis stabilisation system suspending the sensor – it’s still significantly simpler than the mirror and viewfinder assemblies required for even the cheapest DSLR. I was told by one of the manufacturers that a mirrorless camera has approximately 60-70% fewer parts than a DSLR, and can be produced in significantly less time.
/end quote/
Think of it this way: For about the same amount of money as this new EM1 plus the new 12-40 lens Canon sells the FF 6D plus 24-105 L kit. So Canon makes a FF cam with a much larger sensor and the mirror/viewfinder, plus bigger glass, and it undoubtedly costs them more to make than Olympus with the EM1, and yet they will sell for the same money. Given that Canon generally has more brand name cachet than Olympus, this seems even more odd.
Olympus produced another great camera with their recently released EP5 but that is not doing too well due to price. So I don’t know why Oly and Panny think they can just push the prices upward on m4/3 when the costs are not there to justify it, and the main competition is offering dslr’s with larger sensors for same price or less.
5-axis IBIS is not a small feat. If 5-axis IBIS is really “simpler” than a mirror and viewfinder assembly, then every DSLR would have it already installed.
Also, selling prices are not directly related to costs.
And full frame sensor is not that expensive. I figured a 200mm wafer for imaging sensor is about $400 which yields about 25 sensors. That’s $25 each.
To Gearhead: again, with all due respect, but where do you get your estimates for the cost of a FF sensor? According to Canon the cost of a FF sensor is 20 times the cost of a crop sensor, which is still larger than a m4/3 sensor.
It’s a combination of far fewer sensors from each wafer, a requirement for more stamping passes for FF vs. APS-C ( FF sensors require triple the number of photo-lithography steps, meaning they’re slower and more costly to make), and proportionately greater loss of FF sensors from QC.
If a FF sensor really does cost only $25, then an m4/3 sensor must cost only a few dollars at most.
try getting a FF sensor for forty bucks lol
theres a little thing called the defect rate
wafers are 3 sizes, 180mm, 200mm and 300mm
On 180mm wafers out of a possible 12 sensors, a 40 defect per wafer specification will yield just 1 or 2 FF sensors on average. On the same numbers at the same defect rate, APSC will get about 14, and 4/3rds about 32. So while a 4/3rds chip is around 1/4 the size of FF135, numerically it works out somewhere between 16 and 32 times financially more viable.
With all due respect, why do you assume this? Even if 5 axis IBIS is not as expensive as the mirror/OVF/prism assembly, that does not logically follow. Most DSLR manufacturers have been putting image stabilization into their lenses instead. Also, who knows if IBIS is as easy to implement with a mirror assembly.
‘1’ ibIS is more financially viable than even ‘1’ optical stabiliser in lens
how many lenses do you have
CIPA counts something like 2.2 lenses per system on average
Riley: IBIS is more financially viable to the consumer than paying for stabilization in each and every lens…
But that has nothing to do with the cost of Olympus in implementing it in their cameras.
And I still must trust MIng Thein and his research when he says that the cost of IBIS and a mirrorless assembly is far less than the cost of the mirror and OVF for a basic dslr.
If Olympus can ask for this price and get it and make a great profit, then more power to them. But given the market, I don’t know if this pricing strategy will work for them.
that ROC was already sorted at the launch of non ibIS 410 and ibIS 510 way back when
its about $50 to the consumer
whereas OIS can 2x the price of a lens like 70-200/2.8 L
non OIS 70-200 $1,292 to OIS 70-200 $2,499
Riley, you prove my point that the cost of manufacturing the Olympus mirrorless is far less than a dslr, which is my main point. The pricing seems inflated based on that.
You are correct in that consumers pay more for image stabilization in lenses…
of course it is
Olympus are restrained by their capacity for volume
so the opportunity to trade far above cost is what they need
thats the mark of a niche producer,
Fuji and Leica are the same but to different niches
You forgot the enormous costs of the research and that olympus sells way less cameras than cannon so the money has to come from somewhere.
To Nikon King: the cost of research and development is also spread over multiple models using the same tech.
In the EM1, we have a lot of tech already used in EM5 and EP5, including 5 axis IBIS. Much of this R&D has been largely paid for. The sensor is basically the same, but tweaked and with no AA filter.
Again, I think the EM1 will be fantastic, but I am puzzled by the reasoning behind the cost increase. At a time when other competitors are striving to bring lower prices to the market, Oly goes in the opposite direction. And given their relative market share, I don’t know that they have the clout to do this successfully.
“but I am puzzled by the reasoning behind the cost increase.”
I suppose you mean price increase, as we don’t really know the actual cost of making the item, and that cost is highly irrelevant for consumer prices anyway.
I think you are puzzled by the price at least in part because you are looking at the E-M1 as a direct replacement of the E-M5, which it isn’t. That direct replacement is likely due for next spring, and will indeed offer an E-M5 alike camera for an E-M5 alike price but with improved technology.
lets compare the E-M1 to the cameras it aims to replace instead, the E-3/5. Those were $1700 bodies at introduction, so compared to those, the price actually dropped by $200 instead of increasing (if the rumors are right), whereas there is a clear increase in technical performance (if it actually performs better in real world situations is something we simply don’t know yet)
“At a time when other competitors are striving to bring lower prices to the market, Oly goes in the opposite direction.”
Oh really? Everything Fuji for example has been doing over the last couple of years is try to get out of the ‘drive to the bottom’ low-margin compact and ‘bridge camera’ market and move into the much higher margin, much higher price but also much more niche segment of milc and luxury cameras. Lowering price is especially done in markets where there is no growth and little innovation because it is one of the few ways left to at least retain a market position. Do this for too long without being able to compensate and justify it with also selling high-margin products, and the bean counters will come and cut you out of the market alltogether, and rightly so because low margins guarantee not having the means to stay technically competitive.
Looking at the Apple example, when Apple introduced their ipod, it was (and actually still is) a lot more expensive then pretty much every other portable digital audio player, often much more then twice as expensive. Apple had absolutely no intention whatsoever to ‘fix’ that situation as they were not at all trying to compete on price, they were trying to compete by reaching potential customers with an unbeatable experience that made most totally forget about the 2-4x premium price they were paying. What followed is history but would not have been possible at all if they followed the ‘compete on price’ suggestion.
There are many ways to be successful in a market, having a large share of that market is merely one possible indication of such success.
“And given their relative market share, I don’t know that they have the clout to do this successfully.”
Lower volume, higher margin and giving people an experience that makes up for any possible price difference, quite simple really. Will they succeed? that is an entirely different question.
Just to elaborate my point: mirrorless cameras are largely computers, mostly subject to Moore’s Law. Just like computers we should be getting more for less with each generation, or at least more for the same amount of money.
There is no natural justification for the magnitude of the price increase of EM1 over EM5.
As somebody who studied computer science, I have to say you abuse Moore’s law:
“Moore’s law is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law
It is of no relevance here.
The price of the E-M1 is dictated by its excellent build quality, state-of-the-art sensor AND expected sales volume. If it sells very well, the price *could* be lowered, but Olympus wants to maximize profits. See also the article by J Shin I gave you earlier.
You try to be nice, but you honestly give me the impression of some paid Canon agent. If so, I advise you to act less suspicious! 😀
@OilyMouse: LOL about me being a “paid Canon agent.” I wish I knew a way to get paid by Canon for something as simple as posting comments on a website.
I respect that fact that you disagree with me, but I don’t understand why often times on these sort of comment threads one is accused of being some sort of paid agent just because of an honest disagreement. The implication is that someone couldn’t possibly honestly disagree with you.
As I stated, I hope Olympus succeeds wildly with this camera; they add a lot to the market. But I do have my fears that when most consumers compare pricing with dslr’s, including some FF models, that this may not work out for them so well. Keep in mind that in the US at least, most people will not even be able to hold this new camera, because of a poor retail distribution network for Olympus m4/3. So most people will base their buying decision on specs and what they read about online.
I do think these high end m4/3 cameras with their beautiful small lenses could catch on more if more people could see and hold them and try them out in retailers. I live in a relatively large city and I know there is only one small specialty photographic shop (and a darn good one) that carries the higher end Oly m4/3 cameras. But alas most people will not shop there; most people don’t even know it exists.
There are a few very natural explanations for prices beyond the cost of producing an item, the best known one is called ‘supply and demand’. Another one is called ‘premium product’ (which can mean a lot of things, but typically comes with above average manufacturing quality and QA, possibly better support etc).
As a matter of fact, cost of producing an item merely sets the lowest price for which it can still be sold without incurring a loss, but beyond that it is totally irrelevant for the price a consumer will actually pay.
We all know that in reality the price is controlled by the age of the Marketing Managers Merc, in months (12 max) and if a new model has been released.
@one more thought
1. You don’t know how much the Canon cost to produce
2. Canon has more economy of scale
3. Canon is using much older technology
4. “According to Canon” =lol
5. Pricing is a feature
6. Mirrorless cameras more reflect the smart phone market than the desktop market so Moore’s law isn’t relevant.
@YouDidntDidYou: Moore’s Law does indeed apply to smartphones. Look at how just over the last few years we have far more capable smartphones for either the same or less price. For instance, each generation of iPhone costs the same, yet has better processor and is more advanced in every way. The same is true for Samsung, et al.
Moore’s Law will apply to every industry using microprocessor chips; it’s not just desktop PCs.
my google nexus phone from 2 years ago is due an upgrade but the latest and due to be announced phones don’t look much better spec wise (except maybe the HTC one and the forthcoming Sony phone), it has NFC, Android Beam, Jelly Bean etc
The E-M1 gives you more useful over the E-M5 from the limited amount of features that we know about…so that justifies it’s pricing, but like wise the Samsung S4 and probably the new iphone will added a load of features that real world users will never use.
And canon puts a sensor 1.8mm taller than the m43 in their plastic camera that has not changed for a million years. The em1 is the latest technology in an almost indestructible case. The cost of electronics is a very very very small part of the cost factor, with the exception of the sensor. There is no comparison. Do you have any idea of the cost of circuit board production. Its not very high, not very high at all.
The replacement board for your heater or dishwasher that you get charged $200 + for “on exchange” actually lands on the manufacturers floor for $5 to $20 inc all taxes and freight when ordered in commercial quantities. FYI. The old board may get repaired in the initial stages of the product life cycle to establish problem stats. It may then get a nominal repair time or dump, many exchanged boards are in fact not faulty.
From what we know the only truly “new” technology is from the Sony sensor with PDAF on board.There are an abundance of weather sealed bodies from other makers at and below the suggested price point.5-AXIS this is the third camera to include it.Though we don’t yet know there are no claims about significant image quality advances if there was we would be hearing about it.
I said latest not new. The electronics components, aside from the sensor is one of the cheapest parts. The case and the fitting of the parts cost far more and the smaller it gets the more difficult it gets.
For just a few more thoughts, you could start here http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/19/the-mystery-of-leica-pricing-explained-by-j-shin.aspx/
Simply put: comparing the cost of materials alone is not enough.
Juste wondering where cams and lenses are made… Production costs in Japan, Korea or China aren’t the same… and it as an impact on quality too.
Could someone tell us where their Canon, Nikon, Olympus gear are made?
Where items are made is mostly irrelevant from a quality point of view. If the builder is trained and certified by the principle company. An Olympus camera or lens should have the same build quality if made in China, Japan or the Philippines or wherever. Same for Nikon, Canon et all. However some factories take longer to bring up to speed. Not changing suppliers and assembly companies is more important than where they are.
A circuit board built by a Chinese (or other cut price assembler) company who is working from drawings and component lists may produce a great board that fills all the test and inspection criteria. They may also produce a board with blisters and short producing dirt, terrible etching and low grade components from “a mate down the road”. That is why big name manufacturers get involved with their suppliers.
A few very exciting thoughts. The inclusion of the four thirds logo with the m43rds, along with the complete Digital Zuiko lens lineup is very promising for a body to use both lenses… Or an E-7… But it is looking more like they have solved the AF issue.
Notice the new camera has a mic in port, well this again suggests they may have a more robust video option in the camera as this inclusion is only for video, and particularly for those who want to use external sound.
We already know the IBIS is superb, they have made huge strides in reducing the “jello” effect in the OMD-EM5, so we take the 16mp sensor, drop the AA filter and get that E-5 crispness, maybe slightly improved DR and noise performance, although I am not expecting miracles here the OMD is already very good.
We have a PC port, suggesting studio work, and an AA free cam could be very nice in this setting with some of the stunning glass available in 43rds and m43rds…
Weather sealing, and a sacrifice of size for slightly more ergonomics. I wonder what else we will see? A mid point for the tone curve? Improved Bulb Live view? Some more art filters or more control over them…
The wifi control is a great feature, I know it isn’t a first, but it is on a serious camera and could be very useful…
Exciting time.
+1 !
COMING SOON…Another camera that will cause the photo geeks to go crazy for the next 6 months or so and then be replaced by another Revolutionary product….etc…etc…etc…….ehhh no.
6 months? I think it is about 20 months since the E-M5 was announced, and that E-M5 was a major breakthrough and setting the standard ever since, even if not “revolutionary”.
How many years ago was the E-5 announcement. Whoops, you goofed!
Two cameras are in, aren’t?
Admin said one more small surprise. Not one more BIG surprise.
Please let it be a small enthusiasts camera a la Rico GR but with a built-in 43 sensor!
I was just thinking how cool that would be!
Small surprise : like a new filter :-(.
Will ‘The Dark Knight’ have a lady companion ?
E-M6 (with the E-M5 for fun in the weekends).
is just over priced ,now panasonic geting the price down of the gh3 thst is a fail even for video ( just compare to the 70d ) maybe in 3 months will cost just above 600 like omd cost now less than 800 same with lenses i laught alot with the people paying 1000$ for the 12-35 and even more for the 35-100 when here i cant even get 500 in the shop for each thats the only reason i keep at leat olympus is better than panny the pics are not falling apart
Your English is falling apart!
The 70D is not even full frame…
Is that 8×10″ full frame? 6x7cm Full frame? Nikon 1 Full Frame? APSC h Full Frame? 4.5×6 Full Frame? Movie Full Frame?
Well!
stopedaftre3wrdss
LOL
The European one is a 4cm x 3cm camera. Its for the european market only and will not be sold to anyone currently owning a canikon. This can be bypassed by kissing the m43 logo. It is to be known as the finger laugh camera. Every time one sees a canikon the oly user is to put the longest finger into an upward angle and laugh.
By some strange twist of fate it will take all Olympus lenses ever made using the full 4×3 sensor.
It will be sold with 5000 “get back” suggestions for posting on canikon sites. It also has a magic finder that will find all anonymous or otherwise obnoxious posters (past as well as future) so they can be suitably dealt with.
you guys like tony things for sure got a tiny co#k or cant even stand 5mins in bed cuz for size in the only thing matter train of idiots
Stop looking in the mirror when you make comments. It may help.
nikon or pentax q ?
the E-M1 specs are not revolutionary!
Do you think they leaked the E-M1 to see who it is leaking their products?
… and really they really do have a ‘revolutionary’ camera to launch?
I’m sticking with the hope of the modular thing that has m43 or 43 mount
while I’m waiting, I’m really enjoying my Ricoh GR 😉
revolutionary would be:
– the best 16mp mFT sensor
– in a hassleblad 500CM style body
– with a whole host of lens mounts:
… 43/m43/Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Sony/LeicaM
AF with all lenses (er, except the manual focus ones!)
All of the E-M1 spec is evolutionary, nothing revolutionary (was it a translation error)
Revolution: first DLSR manufacturer that is say bye bye to mirror boxes and pentaprims, doing PDAF on-chip.
Sony hasn’t done it (but will), Canikon are still working on it. For them, the revolution will be much harder to accomplish.
OBS is a revolution. Wihout that, the “R” would indeed have been out of place.
I think that though I appreciate the advantages of an EVF and there are many, so far none have matched a good FF OVF.I suspect the reason for much of the animosity on both the pro and con side is down to what cameras people previously used if you had used any of the low end DSLR models from all makers with their often tiny murky OVF then EVF is no loss.However if your background is a FF camera with a large clear OVF then you will have a different opinion.
I use both and would say that i still prefer OVF though EVF seem to get better every generation.Though I must admit when using the OVF I miss the zoom for manual focus and the ability to chimp/check/ study a shot through the EVF when light is too bright to use the LCD.
Don’t know but for me the ‘standard’ for OVF has for decades been the VF of my manual focus Minoltas, there exists no DSLR that can hold a candle to those (and to the ones in many contemporary manual focus SLRs).
I found it difficult to accept the large EVF of my G2, not so much because of resolution but because the color sequential display bothered me. The smaller one in the E-M5 I found a bit small at first, but an absolute delight to use, despite my ‘background’ being a step up from the best you can get in any DSLR.
It has a lot to do with accepting that you are presented with the cameras impression of the scene instead of a direct view on the scene.
There are special cases where an OVF will for some time to come keep a clear advantage over EVFs, for example the fact that an OVF does not disturb ‘night vision’ whereas an EVF does (funny detail is that Panasonic’s sequential color EVFs could in theory address this, but somehow Panasonic didn’t make use of this so far)
I feel the same way. I can make myself pretty sad thinking OVF will go the route of the RF in becoming niche. The world looks wonderful through an OVF, whether you look through an LCD overlay with highlighted AF points or just a simple split prism.
My solution: accept change as inevitable and appreciate everything as you go along. And keep a healthy collection of gear lest one forgets the glorious past!
I hope there will be among this new revolutionary cameras:
1) an update to boost the performance of the olympus viewer software
2) an omd firmware update to enable super spot af and focus peaking
3) a splash and dust proof pancake prime in 17-25 range
AF technology is Revolutionary, but with differences…
Even if the 4/3 14-54 Mk2 is going to focus at 0.5 sec with the E-M1, the 12-40 is going to focus at 0.1 sec, thanks to linear motors, plus it will be silent for Movies.
Once you are used to the latter, there is no way back. So Oly is v. clever: with the E-M1 it will demonstrate the superiority of mirrorless to the last die hard cretins of the 1022 Forum at DPR.
Cretin is a kind word because one of them, a racist birder called Collbaxter, had the face to call blogger Ming Thein ‘Chow Ching Chow’ or another derogatory term by which the Chinese railway workers where despised a century ago. Just because he foresaw the disappearance of dSLR.
As I said just by comparing lens performance you will find why Mirrorless m4/3 is the winner. This applies also to FF, nobody has such a concentrate of technology for the same per pixel resolution of m4/3…
So yes, Revolutionary, but not for the cretins…
Ooh Amalric calling racist another fellow anonymous poster on the Web.. Wonderful. I love this site, it’s always entertaining, always!
– Amalric’s racial advisor
Oh, by the way I am mixed race, by your WASP, Aryan Superemacy pals’ criteria.
So I am perfectly entitled to react to the racist innuendos of a White Safari organiser in Black Africa.
We call it Reverse Discrimination and it is absolutely legal in many states, compared to the old imperialistic one:
http://www.yourdictionary.com/reverse-discrimination.
I find it rather funny that discrimination should apply to some types of cameras, but that what our white trash trolls are mostly about. 🙂
Over the years you have spewed more bigotry and racist commentary here and on dpreview than anybody else. That you keep grinding an axe and take shots at people on other forums is rather douchey behavior. You are a little man who delights in arrogantly mocking everything and everything, because you find no other joy or purpose in your miserable life. I feel sorry for you, you destitute little puke. Shame on you!
Where is your photography, Lichtenstein’ hate bubble?
I find delight in my photography, but you not even that. Try Andorra or S. Marino, instead. 🙂
That is BS I have never read one word of racism from Colin on the other hand I have seen countless posts of hate from you with America top of your hit list
By staying anonympus , you are not v. credible, are you? You could even be the Colin lamer himself…
BTW the filthy comment about Ming Thein as ‘Ching Chow Chow’ has been deleted by mods because some members protested against its racist connotation.
Little tyrants afraid of their shadows, like *carizi* and *skeys*.
No wonder that the readership of their forum is collapsing, and so the rest of DPR’s readership, by the day.
It doesn’t matter if you call yourself amalric or anonymous. In either case you are anonymous, unless you post your full name and address. Naturally, you can’t possibly do that for obvious reasons.
What obvious reasons, liar? Amalric is akin to an Art name, and it has over 5,000 occurrences, 6 years of use, only at DPR, meaning that I respond entirely to it.
Of course I am not planning to give my real bio and data to Marketing firms and phishers, but as a cretin you are absolutely entitled to do it yourself.
Please close gently the door while I try to control my fits of laughing.
‘Art names’ typically say a lot about how the user of such a name perceives him/herself. In your case its a perfect match with your behavior, and that isn’t exactly a compliment.
Now, if we’d follow your reasoning, we’d simply do as they did on dpreview, get you banned, and ignore all the useful things you also post besides the seemingly unavoidable idiocy and racism, as you’d have destroyed any possible credibility.
Maybe you should learn to try to stick to the message instead of attacking the messenger? Why do you even care about the messenger? whomever is saying something is totally irrelevant for if that something is correct or makes logical sense.
My problem with Anonymouses is that I don’t let them lick MA with trust. I need to know who is there behind. Do you have and Identity Card, slave?
Calm down now. You are gibbering. How about an enema and shock therapy?
amalric, you ARE an anonymous twit, I mean twat.
The credibility of an argument is in what is being said, not in who says it.
You seem rather bent on ‘shooting the messenger’, which is typically a clear sign of inability to shoot the message.
shure no way back for geriatric people like all the m43 ppl
THE best thing that could happen is a EM1 with apsc size sensor.
And Nikon mount/lensnes? Because m4/3 will not work on it.
So you’re gonna buy one for “your wife and kids” but you still think an APSc sized sensor would be better… What’s wrong with you?
all people here just fighting like girls not taking pictures with their low performance cameras people here are a shame same as m43 system
Hopefully you’re here fighting with us 🙂
im trolling
“It’s set to herald a whole new world of photography” ????
I hate ignorant marketing departments that are completely out of touch with what they are marketing. Wait! They forgot to use “Game Changer”!
This camera autofocuses my manual focus lenses for me.
I aslo love the 5-axis round house kick.