Oh guys! This is going to kill me! For one full month sources told me that [shoplink 29074]Olympus E-M5[/shoplink] sensor would be a “new one”. The problem was that I went almost crazy because I didn’t know if the sensor would be “REALLY new” or just “Olympus marketing new” 🙂
And there is a new chapter of the “sensor mystery story”! The Olympus manager Toshiyuki Terada revealed in an interview with Quesabesde (Click here): “It’s true we have used Panasonic sensors in the past, but this time we can’t tell the name of the E-M5 sensor maker. I have to say this is an all new sensor.”
Oh guys, I quit. it’s up to you now to guess what the heck is happening inside the E-M5. As long as images are good I really don’t care. But next time we have to discuss about future Olympus camera rumors blame on Olympus and not on me if I cannot give you a clear answer 🙂
Oh one more thing: Olympus said that this is not a professional camera. And this backups some of the rumors I got in these days 🙂
Full Updated Preorder list:
1) Black E-M5 body at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Warehouse UK (Click here), Redcoon Germany (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
2) Silver E-M5 body at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Warehouse UK (Click here), Redcoon Germany (Click here), and Amazon Japan (Click here).
3) Black E-M5 body with 14-42mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
4) Black E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Jessops (Click here), Redcoon Deutschland (Click here), Amazon Deutschland (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
5) Silver E-M5 body with 12-50mm lens at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Jessops (Click here), Amazon Deutschland (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
6) FL-600R wireless flash at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
7) MMF-3 Four Thirds adapter at
Amazon (Click here) and Adorama (Click here).
8) HLD-6 power battery holder at
Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and Amazon Japan (Click here).
251 Responses
LOL well lets just see what the images are like shall we. In two months we should have people flooding the forums with sample pics of the E-M5 hehe
It is the G3 sensor. They just cannot tell us that this time.
We will be able to identify it by its noise and dynamic range.
Noise texture looks Fuji to me
Now this is geek talk. Can you point us to some sort of comparison, where you can see differences of such kind? I am honestly interested.
I would need to have the camera and make some controlled test shots myself (long exposure without NR).
Sony (NEX):
Exmor APS HD CMOS Sensor
Nikon:
“CMOS” (D800/N1)
Canon (G1 X):
Canon high-sensitivity CMOS
Samsung:
“CMOS”
Fuji:
X-Trans CMOS sensor
Panasonic:
• 4/3 type MOS (‘Live MOS sensor’)
E-PM1:
4/3″ Hi-Speed Live MOS sensor
EM-5:
“Live MOS”
http://olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1583&page=specs
“The Live MOS sensor is a brand name of Image sensor used by Leica, Panasonic and Olympus in their Four Thirds System DSLR manufactured since 2006.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_MOS
Given that Oly are quoting LiveMos for the sensor it’s 100% Panasonic’s… right?
it could be the same architecture but a different manufacturer. I think Olympus shares the patent with Pany so they could probably also ask another to build a LiveMOS for them. it’s just my speculation though…
also, if it is really Pany… why would Oly not disclose it? Maybe we should be asking Pany then if they made the sensor hehe
They cannot say who makes the sensor because it is from Area 51 Alien technology. The government men in black would come and find them if they let the secret out. This was a special investment of all the cash that left Olympus in the past years. That is why the cash had to be laundered through phony intermediaries. It all makes sense now!
Haha.. this is like Olympus FTL. Maitani said “We cannot say who made the camera!”
Yes 😉
It can’t be too long until one of those crazy tech blogs gets an E-M5 and dissects it into their parts, reading the labels off the mystery sensor…
I doubt it has any labels!
there will be an olympus label 🙂
And by the way, seeing the black and the silver version next to each other, I am really torn in between them:
* I like the all black one better by principle, because it doesn’t stick out immediately.
* HOWEVER, the fake leather on the silver one goes better with the silver AND there are so many non-black Zuiko lenses (the excellent 45mm for example) that the benefit of a dark body are more or less void.
Your thoughts?
silver one looks more retro.
I would like the black one, but with the faux leather… Too bad that is not an option… 🙁
Me too,
too bad …
Cheers
Buy the black one and order the ‘leather’ replacement for the silver one as a spare part, rip off the old and install the new. Simples.
Or buy the silver and some black paint.
Nimm alle beide! 🙂
Get the silver one, so that it is one less person in front of me ordering the black one.
But really, it’s a camera. I wouldn’t put as much thought into it as you are. Because I have no clue about which one will get to me faster, I ordered the one I preferred. But if only the silver one was available, I wouldn’t hesitate. In the end, it’s a camera, and it takes photos. Look at your subject, not the camera. 😉
Why say it when the answer will only disappoint? Besides, we already know it will be +/- 3 points DXO from GX-1.
May be it’s a Canon. Thats why they want to keep it secret, so that it does not take the attention away from Canon’s mirrorless! 😉
On the other hand its good for Canon because they get the public reponse on their sensor before launching their camera.
or fuji..
Fuji don’t make sensors
Fuji is capable of make high quality sensor ,..not just sensor,..anyway
If olympus can have high quality sensor from a third party rather than Panasonic,.it will intrigue a far better competition than before,..and panasonic have to try harder than before to beat or create a better product/camera than OM-D,..this means M43 system will grow faster and much better than any other mirror less system in the market
yes they do
Fuji doesn’t make sensors? lol – that’s the most uniformed comment I’ve ever read.
They design sensors like Nikon and Olympus, or rather tweak the design of a existing ones. When did you last see a Fuji ad/spec saying they had actually made it?
Fuji has its own sensor foundry and actually fabricates sensors in addition to just designing them. They used to be a huge sensor manufacturer but has scaled down, which has led to them getting some (or most?) of their sensors made from other foundries. It’s still their design and process, and for sensor technology, that is what matters. Foundry location has little to do with sensor performance unless a foundry uses age old equipment.
Then we should say: WE DON’T BUY A CAT IN THE SACK!
Sounds like Trapattoni 🙂
In diese Interview mit Terada es waren zwei, drei oder vier Spieler, die waren schwach wie eine Flasche leer!
Ist klar diese Wörter, ist möglich verstehen, was ich hab’ gesagt? Danke.
Ich habe fertig!
Why not completely switch to German? Would be easier for me. 8) Anyone against it? Do Texans not speak perfect German anyway? 😉
Why not completely switch to German? Would be easier for me. 8) Somebody against it? Do Texans not speak perfect German anyway? 🙂
I will refuse to tell Olympus why I’m not buying their camera. I have my reasons, which must remain secret. 😛
false ‘germenglish’ language is taking advantage of this forum
“Olympus said that this is not a professional camera.”
-> this is the best news in this days-> so I still can hope that sooner or later a professional m43 camera will appear! 🙂
probably a half a year after panasonic ;-/
Sounds realy stupid, the new sensor should be a lot better performer than the E-5 and the E-30 sensors have!
Marketing fail?
Sensor is not the only thing making camera professional or not.
Controls, ergonomy and possibilty to be used in every situation are very important as well.
E-M5 looks very promising, but in some aspects, E-5 (or E-30) is still clearly better.
Hmm, what’s not pro about it? Sounds like marketing b/s, to leave room for an update to four-thirds…. E-7 anyone?!
It’s not one of their pro shutters for a start. Plus the viewfinder isn’t either. Olympus said they would not bring out a pro M43 camera until the EVF viewfinder was good enough and this one isn’t.
“What’s not pro about it?”
Maybe he means it’s not expensive enough 🙂
(Seriously: metal body, weather sealed, 9 fps max, grip compatible, for $1K… not bad.)
Or maybe he just means it won’t support tethered shooting 🙁
Or that they won’t enroll it in their pro service plan :-/
How could it be a professional camera?
“How could it be a professional camera?”
By somebody going out and making money with it… which I’m sure people will do.
I’m sure somebody will make money with a OM-D, but it’s clearly not designed as a professional camera. And that’s obviously what the Olympus guy was refering to. A lot of cameras are used by professionals without being a pro model. Olympus understand this distinction and would look pretty stupid if they claimed that the OM-D was aimed at pro use.
An Olympus camera is considered Pro if the OGPS supports it.
Up to now only the E1, E3 and E5 are in that program!!!
It’not suited for an amateur or enthousiast due to the demands!!!!
I know, I’m in the program.
You have to apply and show your work business work plus pay a yearly fee, a panel at Olympus decides if you are up to snuff so to speak.
To become an Olympus Global Pro Service member, you must meet the following requirements:
•Be a working full-time professional photographer who derives at least eighty percent (80%) of his or her annual income from photography.
•Own at least one Olympus E-System body.
•Provide proof of membership in other professional organization(s), list of clients, or professional references.
•Possess a valid credit card.
•Provide a valid street address. (We will not ship equipment to a PO Box.)
Then:
Olympus Global Pro Service member benefits include:
•Priority support through a dedicated hotline and email account.
•Rush Priority Repairs.
•Loaner equipment (cameras, lenses and accessories) for pre-purchase evaluation, or temporary equipment replacement.
No, because he said at the moment they can’t see how you would make a professional u4/3 camera.
Were there Rumors about a professional camera by Olympus? Another camera in the making? Another line?
“Olympus said that this is not a professional camera. And this backups some of the rumors I got in these days.”
So does that mean Olympus’s next professional camera is in the 4/3 line rather than m4/3?
of course, E-7 with new sensor and IBIS. Maybe they finally learned to update sooner?
Okay… So, it most likely is not from Panasonic…
My guess would be either Sony (1st choice) or Samsung, both due to previous rumors… :0)
Actually it means:
“It’s true we have used Panasonic sensors in the past, but this time we can’t (don’t dare) tell you that PANASONIC is the E-M5 sensor maker again.”
Even Olympus is calling the sensor “live-MOS” in their press release… it kind of gives it away. 🙂
Could be true. Because if people are convinced that it is indeed the G3 sensor, lot of people would consider buying the much cheaper G3 rather than the E-M5 and the G3 owners would not want to upgrade to E-M5.
What if part of the agreement with this unknown third party was that they had to make a Livemos sensor to 4/3 spec for Olympus. I’d say definately within the realms of possibility.
Or Live-MOS is just a copy and paste error.
Lol, exactly. Its not like they said it is NOT a panny sensor. All he said, is that the sensor is new (compared to previous oly cameras) and that he can’t tell who made the sensor (panny).
What a ridiculous thing.
It doesn’t give it away. That’s an OLYMPUS trademark.
LiveMOS is a trademark of Olympus:
http://www.trademarkia.com/live-mos-78786600.html
it is Foxconn Electronics Inc
I’m almost sure it’s a Panasonic, otherwise I simply cannot see why he doesn’t show clearly that it is NOT a Panasonic one.
It’s obviously Panasonic, but probably Olympus does not dare to tell us the truth. Now everyone is expecting the G3 sensor, but it may be a “tweaked” GH2 sensor “only”.
I don’t think it is GH2 sensor. After all the pixel count doesn’t match. And GH2 continues on being panny flagship. And what about the 240fps read rate? No, i don’t think it is that sensor…
GH2 sensor would be upgrade to G3/GX1 sensor which has worser dynamic range at low ISOs.
High ISOs are needed for moving target photography for avoiding target blurring, not for landscapes and such requiring high DR.
This has been discussed. NDA, that is the reason why he cannot say.
OM-D is not “pro” camera? Huh, hard to imagine what “pro” camera must have in their eyes.. I mean OM-D is packed with features and seems almost perfect (if it works it is perfect).
They probably mean in regards to service. The E-5 had E-Pro servicing like with Nikon and Canon (rush priority, bodies blah blah blah) and such but just with a smaller distribution and repair network.
At least they have honour with using the “term” pro, unlike Fuji currently. But yeah, why not include the OM-D in Pro Global Service? I’m sure that eventually many photographers by trade will use this more than any E-System userbase combined.
Marketroids must love you Daemonius with your below ground altitude for bar of perfect.
Sure professional might use almost any tool (that’s the purpose of camera, not some retro “assthetics”) which fills its purpose and does the job at hand but serious tools needs serious ergonomy.
Excluding tech which in no way follows some certain camera (but level of tech at its design time) only thing OM-D has going for itself is sturdy frame and weatherproofing… which can also be found from some of those though compacts but which are hardly any pro equipment.
Control and ergonomy wise this OM-D is at most at level of E-xxx models.
So you’ve actually used the camera and can say this with certainty?
Those that have actually handled the camera have expressed very positive comment about its ergonomy. Your´s is pure speculation or have you made a life size clay mockup of the OM-D just for yourself? Unlike you I have seen just the pictures and to me it seems ergonomically very good. Of course if you especially long fingers or big hands that´s another issue. But don´t blame the camera – blame your hands.
I think you are replying to Esa – I quite agree with you, Pjotr!
Not yet but my memory doesn’t reset with every camera release, I can put together 2+2 and skip marketing lies.
Never found a camera (DSLRs or fixed lens/compacts) whose live handling would give different result than impression given by Dpreview’s “in your hand” pictures.
And those pictures showing fingers tightly bent in “fingertip grip” tell clearly that without landscape grip it has even less substance to hold on to than best compacts with grips. While landscape grip can help to that there’s still cramped rear with small buttons in tight space (and no direct setting access buttons and rear dial) and not much space for thumb.
And instead of fully digital era design this 50 year old retroish design makes it hard to look into viewfinder without nose hitting to body/display (at least film SLRs didn’t have display to dirty) unless you first tilt head downwards from its natural position when looking something, which definitely isn’t with head tilted downwards and looking askance.
I’m going to camera/photography expo in two weeks and I doubt I’ll find any reason to change “If it looks like shit and smells like shit then it probably is shit even without touching and tasting it.” motto.
And for you I would recommend reading Emperor’s New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen before believing next shipload of marketing garbage.
There are a number of professional photographers who disagree with you.
Perhaps a pro camera should have a shutter that lasts 150-300 000 exposures? How many are the E-M5 supposed to take?
100.000, like most entry-level and semi-pro DSLRs
@Admin are those rumours about Four Thirds or m43?
Okay, I’ll bite. I can’t speak Spanish so I have no idea what if anything was lost in translation. However, the Google Translate version does not have Mr Terada denying it is a Panasonic sensor. That is probably far more significant than anything else he says about the sensor, which is meaningless. There is nothing Mr Terada says about this sensor which is inconsistent with it just being an updated G3 sensor, with Olympus dedicated connecters. Yet of course Mr Terada could have both completely ruled out Panasonic having made the sensor, and it basically being the same designed as the G3 sensor, which he didn’t. Nor is there anything inconsistent with it just being a new Panasonic version of the 16mp sensor. So it doesn’t really tell us anything, apart from that Mr Terada is enjoying the moment.
I think the rest of the interview is far more interesting. The E-M5 is definitely not a pro camera. Olympus understands and is working on the PDAF solution for 4/3 lenses. The most significant thing there being they have not ruled out sensor based PDAF. This would appear to indicate that Olympus are indeed considering other options and suppliers for sensors.
Sorry, but 43 is dead!
Any functioning brain cells left in there?
Having PDAF to go along CDAF like in Nikon 1 would improve fast moving target tracking ability quite a lot by eliminating lots of trial and error needed by CDAF for acquiring focus and keeping it.
And most of the m4/3 lenses are optically plain Sigma&Tamron level consumer garbage when compared to 4/3 lenses. Remaking them for mirrorless m4/3 mount (and CDAF) wouldn’t even allow making most of them any smaller except by lowering optical quality or decreasing max aperture, and frankly that segment is already well filled whereas m4/3 lacks in high quality and weatherproofing.
Couldn’t eliminating telecentricity and shorter flange distance allow smaller lenses without decrease in optical quality for shorter focal lengths?
No.
No. Better telecentricity is an advantage for 4/3.
Better telecentricity is an advantage for 4/3.
“Having PDAF to go along CDAF like in Nikon 1 would improve fast moving target tracking ability quite a lot by eliminating lots of trial and error needed by CDAF for acquiring focus and keeping it.”
+1.
m4/3 has a new competitor (System 1) that will cause it to lose the appeal of most of Nikon DSLR owners. Nikon System 1 starts up with an adapter that enables 65 Nikkor lenses to fully function with it (AE and AF at same speed as in DSLR), it is even better and cheaper than Sony EA2 translucent mirror adapter.
Results from user tests are coming in:
http://naturalart.ca/artist/fieldtests/fieldtest_NikonV1.html
I expect the market situation will get even worse when Canon adopts the same mirrorless strategy. Time is running out for m43, if not ran out already.
Why does it seem you’re not sorry at all?
What a ridiculous statement. Clearly you have no 4/3 camera and have never used the E-5. When the E-7 comes out YOU can’t have one. And many of the 4/3 lenses are superb.
Dinosaurs.
Yea… The E-M5 really moved me to consider changing to mirror less completely. But I am thinking hard whether to sell my 12-60 SWD and 50-200sWD along with my two teleconvertor to fund my mirror less. Hard decision. The FT lens are just that good!!
Yea… The E-M5 really moved me to consider changing to mirror less completely. But I am thinking hard whether to sell my 12-60 SWD and 50-200sWD along with my two teleconvertor to fund my mirror less. Hard decision. The FT lens are just that good
The 4/3 is very much alive and working.
the 4/3 system has a good operational and full system supported camera in the E 5. The sucessor to this is already in the making!
The lens range is the BEST digital-centric lens range that any manifacturer has brought out.
It has the worlds fastest zoom and all the lenses in the SHG catagory are gems.
It may not have the numbers but in performance ask anyone who has used these lenses, they are in a different league.
As long as the bodies are available I do not see any reason for these lenses to disappoint!
For the simple reason, that on any lens line up pictures, both Panasonic and Olympus wants to expose their large lens portfolio, which is the combined FOUR THIRDS and MICRO FOUR THIRDS.
Without covering the extremely bright lenses and supertelephoto lenses, the lens line would be crippled.
Just look at the proof: http://www.four-thirds.org/en/common/pdf/2011LensCatalog_e.pdf
@Sven C.
To YOU it’s dead, as an amateur.
The OGPS is alive so 43rds is alive.
There will be a new updated 43 camera.
Olympus will update it’s professional line until m43 is up to snuff, they have stated that many times!
@ Sven C. is only sour on Olympus for the stay by 4/3 also. 😀
The point about Live-MOS in marketing is a good one.
I figure they don’t want to say who made the sensor because it would then be QUITE obvious they are being handicapped/held back by their m43 partner Panasonic when it comes to sensors. They would probably be better off using Fuji or some other less direct competitor for sensors in the end as they might be able to coax the latest tech out of a different supplier than Panasonic.
Oly should hire a marketing director asap.
I’ve tried to start a “Draft Thom Hogan” movement for the post, but it doesn’t seem to be getting anywhere ;-).
The interview IS very interesting.
– Why is the EM-5 not considered a professional camera? Because of the reliability that the E-5 range offers, compared to the EM-5, and also the range of expandability and configuration options that the E-5 offers.
– Not decided whether there will be a Professional m4/3rds solution – dependent on the market, but they are okay with having two systems. For now, that is.
– EVF technology needs to be improved, much more can be done with it – image quality is okay, but there are other things like response time, etc. that can be more improved.
– If it’s technically feasible, PEN cameras in the future can also integrate EVF – but price will also be an issue. He’s open to it.
– Sees the OM-D system to be open to more compact, pancake type lenses.
– Very focused on opening up the use of 4/3rds optics to m4/3rds user, as that’s where he sees professional grade quality is right now, as well as studying the development of a new 4/3rds SLR/Lenses.
– Why reviving the OM name – their focus is not to go ‘retro’, but to develop a total small body system with a very extensive array of lenses and accessories.
– Hump is needed for the stabilizer, motion sensor, viewfinder, hotshoe and accessory port, not an aesthetic thing.
– Why the 16mp sensor instead of 12mp? Because we discovered that this sensor can offer greater DR and high sensitivity performance.
i believe it has to be canon.
What time start Canon and production of NMOS sensor?
…and neither do they currently produce sensors with the necessary pixel density. Neither their G1X nor their DSLRs have the necessary pixel density. In fact, the only company that so far has produced sensors of m43 size or larger with sufficient pixel density to give 16 Mpx — is Panasonic.
We also cannot tell if there is irregularity in accounting and financial reporting.
@winflare: Thanks for the sum-up!
OK guys, I admit it: It was ME who made the sensor! You should see my basement, it’s full of discarded wafers and syrup from the trials. I put on 20 lbs during its development, but the IQ was worth it.
😀
+1
🙂
For all the Oly nonsense…I am just going to wait for the Panasonic GH3 with the new sensor that Pany can and will tell us ALL about!!!!!….then everyone will be sitting there with their water-sealed retro slr housing …. surrounding old tech! 🙂
Of course, Panny will tour the world with a “concept GH3” for a year before it becomes available to you, and by then both the E-7 and the EM-6 will be out :-).
Hey…I think the OM is potentially a very cool camera…I am just fed up with all of the HYPE! (Maybe this “ALL NEW” announcement about a mystery sensor is to cover their butts when the new Pany sensor gets released???? Just a thought. I want all of the cameras to be good, though!
Sorry Guys….Panasonic was right on time with the GX1…I got one in my hands just when they projected I would!!!!! Right before Christmas…..I am sure they will be on time with the GH3! (They learned their lesson)
…now when is Oly going to release that 75mm f/1.8?…drool…drool….
So do I (wishing all cameras to be good…). I don’t believe in all the hype of the E-M5. . I’m sure I’ll be disappointed in some areas — if I buy it (and that is by no means for sure). I’m sure some claims will be fulfilled, though. Things I think will be fulfilled: weather/splash proof body, built in EVF — probably ok — I’m happy with the EVF2, probably improved S-AF & burst-rate of 9 fps, new IBIS. The C-AF is somewhat of a let-down — I doubt I would turn off IBIS to achieve 4.2 fps, so in practice it’ll be 3 fps. I’m not sure how good AF will be in low-light. And first and foremost, I’m unsure about the sensor quality. But if it is at least as good as that in GX1, I could live with it. The movie capabilities would just be a bonus to me. Another real letdown is the battery capacity. Just ca 325 pics is almost a joke (650 with battery grip) compared to the 2000+ of the D4…
7.2v 10,000mah RC batt…. EP1 – 24hrs run time!
Oh, c’mon Bob…
If you’re fed up with the hype why do you spend so much time on Rumors forums??? 😀
Because, I LOVE your wise cracks, Charlie!
Don´t blame the camera for the hype. It´s us here and sites like this that raise the hype. Olympus marketing regarding to O-MD has been similar to any other camera maker.
Olympus feeds the hype….in little puzzle pieces…..more so than any other manufacturer.
“everyone will be sitting there with their water-sealed retro slr housing …. surrounding old tech!”
+1
Sadly, this is sounding more and more likely…
That’s true but when you will have GH3 in your hands, everybody will have taken thousands of photo with EM-5…
I understand that you don’t understand all the new techs in the E-M5 😉
The sensor manufacturer is THAT important to you???? Not the images you can take?
I would think the camera output, ergonomics, and feature set would be the reasons people buy the camera, not “They won’t tell me who made the sensor!!!”
+1000000
Some Panasonic nonsense: dpreview verified 14-42 Powerzoom bug:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicDMCGX1/page16.asp#lens
This is not mystery, This is stupid Q. This is not important. What is important is what whit my E system ….its gon or not…end what in future ..FF or biger size bicouse depfiel is important thinks. End now is horible !!!
lol, Olympus will never make FF for the E series, and probably never FF at all. Have you grasped the fact that all your 43 lenses would never work with a FF sensor?
I think you will be wanting the E-7 when it is made! Olympus said the OMD is not Pro – their E series cameras are tho…
Well, if any still have high hopes on google translate this should be a wake up call. Just take a look at the title:
the spanish version: “a Olympus E-M5 no es una cámara profesional”
Google translate: “the Olympus E-M5 is a professional camera”
They somehow missed a NO in there. Can you trust it on anything else when they fail at something so fundamental?
I guess one should not use Google translations when defusing a bomb. Do not cut the blue wire then the red wire. Missing the not in the translation would ruin your day.
Now, THAT’S funny! Good one.
Does it matter who made the sensor?
All the sensors companies : Panasonic,Canon,Aptina have identical DR,
only the sony sensors show up to 3 stops more DR, and we can be sure that its not a sony sensor because of the olympus published 0.5 DR improvement over the e-p3 sensor
It doesn’t matter at all.
What if the sensor manufacturer was Kodak? 😛
When the camera hits the stores, someone is going to buy it and de-construct it to look at its components.
Yeah, a company just coming out from financial scandal and having lost most of his value having a sensor from a company near bankruptcy, that’s sound pretty good 😀 (I’m kidding)
2 years ago this same site was reporting a rumour that Olympus might be working back towards a relationship with Kodak. Even the 16 MP figure was mentioned.
http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-olympus-to-use-a-16-megapixel-kodak-sensor-with-electronic-shutter/
Now, when Terada says “I can’t tell you [who made the sensor]” it is very possible that this is because the marketing department have issued a gag-order, figuring that to acknowledge a new partnership with a company that only recently entered (and still in) Chapter 11 would not exactly be a good move.
Interesting thought. Minor note: Kodak sold the image sensor business in Nov 11.
They also said “true electronic shutter”…. I still vote for panasonic – they said they could not tell because they know if they said panasonic the moaning would kill all sales 🙂
This is all hand-wringing BS. It’s a Panny sensor, and Oly has done their own tweaks, it’s got their own processor, etc. etc.
And even if it isn’t — is it that big a deal???? All that matters is what comes out of the camera after the shutter is released, which is still TBD.
Move on. Next story, please.
Hi Admin,
I have said it days before the launch that it’s not , I repeat ” NOT A PANASONIC ” sensor !!! Let’s just say it’s has almost the same Characters of the ” FUJI ” sensor. The rest is up to you all to guess… ???
It’s manufactured by ” Txxxxxxx ”…!!!
Regards……Jim.
” Txxxxxxx ”
” Toshibax ”
?!?!?
I don’t know where “Txxxxxxx” comes from or is supposed to hint at, but with only that to go on it could be “TrueSense”
For those who weren’t aware…. TrueSense is the new name for … :Kodak Image Sensor Technology:, sold off back in November last year and now a stand-alone company afaik.
It’s one of these companies:
http://www.wordbyletter.com/words_starting_with.php?q=t&letters=8
Saw toshiba mentioned in roumor a few weeks ago by a poster called (i think) O or OM…. similar kind of insider feel to it… pritty much just said Toshiba and walked!
from Wikipedia:
Toshiba
TowerJazz
TransChip
Trusight
Probably the number of xx’s above is not precise.
TransChip is now Samsung.
and how do you know?
Sounds like Jim Bob is an insider.
Teledyne
+100
All we need to know is – is the RAW up there with the best of em… give us a % i.e. sony 100%…. GH2 80% 🙂
All ok, but there are things that REALLY UPSETS ME.
Even in this camera, like all digital PENs the tripod socket is off-axis. This is something I find so much stupid that all the haze and sexiness are completely gone.
It must be a REALLY DAMN good camera, for me to be able to buy it and spend time and money making a “center axis adapter”.
Since NOBODY shows the “ass” of the camera, it would be the icing on cake if you discover that to change battery and card you must remove the fast-release.
In that case, FOR ME the EM5 is in the trash bin.
Lack of a microphone imput. Ok, you have a cumbersome SEMA1, and you put it on.
And then? here you are with 2 solutions, a relatively good kit stereo mic, put in the most stupid possible place, picking up lens handling and crik cracks, or, if you want a good directional mick, you need a rig, a stand or a boom, and you CANNOT use the simple, confortable, compact, standard, yet-not-perfect, mic-on-hotshoe solution for a good Sennheiser, AT, etc etc.
Want to talk about a two-piece hanle and vertical grip? If I want a full-sized and good handling camera I’d go for a real reflex.
Sometimes I ask myself WHO is the idiot that choosing “fashion accessory designers” to design imaging tools.I preferred olympus at the tima of stealing managers.
These are small details impairing the USE of the camera. Maitani is crying from the skyies, and my beloved OM-4s (still in full time PROFESSIONAL use as support to digital AND external spotmeters) are really offended to be related to this thing.
End of the hype.
😉
> Want to talk about a two-piece hanle and vertical grip? If I want a full-sized and good handling camera I’d go for a real reflex.
Why mirrorless isn’t allowed to have good handling?
That hundred year old SLR mirror is/was just the only possible solution offered by the technology of the time to problem of getting through the lens framing and focusing user viewable.
Fully digital camera can offer same view without mirror but that doesn’t in any way change the requirements for camera with good handling.
The SLR is both more and less than 100 years old: The original SLR designs date to the early 1800’s, with the first (unpopular) commercial products dating to the 1880’s. The SLR as we know it today dates from ~1936.
And, yes, I agree: the sooner the reflex mirror has outlived its purpose, which was only to work around the difficulties of focusing at the image plane with film.
“the tripod socket is off-axis”
Indeed, that’s really stupid…Fortunately, I have a Ninja panoramic head to center the camera !
BORING…could care less. Don’t buy the camera if it doesn’t meet your pseudo-professional standards.
Is not the battery in the left side?
I was wrong here is a picture large picture of the bottom. http://www.thephoblographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Chris-Gampat-The-Phoblographer-Olympus-OMD-EM5-hands-on-review-photos-9-of-13.jpg
The SD card is NOT in the battery compartment for E-M5!!
It’s on the right side behind a sliding door!
If there is any other camera with the same sensor, it can probably be identified by comparing the special noise in long-term exposure shots created without the closed shutter compensation. I compared the E-P3 and G3 and they generated totally different patterns of noise. More than noise, really, quite interesting patterns.
So, Panasonic do know exactly who made the sensor but are bound by a non-diclosure agreement with Olympus in regard to that particular piece of information which Olympus expects to keep secret.
I wonder what could be more revealing 🙂
ninja assassin sensor
BtW, I hope it isn’t a Panasonic sensor or else Olympus could be looking at another securities violation
Good. I don’t care who makes the bloody chip. As long as the camera serves my photography I’m happy. In fact it has very little to do with the sensor. May I suggest that you use your tools and enjoy them instead of infinitely analyzing their intestines. Photography is all about love, passion and saying something meaningful. So please wake up.
Probably the most intelligent answer so far…
Thank you!
Sneye.First sensible reply I’ve seen.Well said.
+100
I think it’s Honda or Mazda or even Chrysler!!!
Who cares who made the sensor just takes pictures….
Isn’t it MCdonald made?
Damn it would be so easy to verify if it’s a G3 sensor, you just need to have the camera …
It has always been my understanding that the M5 is not a professional camera. It seem to me that it was in the E-XX range. That will allow Olympus to produce a mFT camera with higher specs or super FT camera.
So the “Pen Pro” timeframe for 2013 still holds …
Txxxxxxx = Teledyne
yes?
Yes that must be it!!! Sounds great!!!
http://www.teledynedalsa.com/sensors/applications/dsc.aspx
teledyne makes ccd sensors …
yes but this is a new development
On their website they list cmos too, though ccd for cameras.
Also says their CCDs have no rolling shutter… the OMD does!
“Teledyne DALSA also offers leading CMOS technologies for visible light applications in industrial, automotive and other high frame rate applications. Our advanced designs provide true global (non-rolling) shuttering with imaging performance that meets and exceeds traditional ILT CCDs.”
more about the company here:
http://www.teledynedalsa.com/
and
http://blog.teledynedalsa.com/
Reality check: the densest teledyne sensor has pixel size 6 micro meter. The E-M5 has pixel size 3.75 micro meter, just like that of the GX1. (E.g the 36 Mpx Nikon D800 has pixel size 5.8 micro meter.)
Probably teledyne could make it, but it would be new territory to them.
I tried to solve the sensor mystery … in vain 😉
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hypselodoris/sets/72157629294398029/with/6866562157/
or here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40619051
have fun, on flickr the story is in the description of the three pictures.
Take a trip to Blokcberg, maybe you will find new woman so can tell you better about this sensor on E-M5.
Hätt ich Siebenmeilenstiefel,
Lief’ ich, mit der Hast des Windes,
Über jene Bergesgipfel
…
Auf dem Brocken — as a reminder that photography is more related to art than our technical speculations. But speculations are fun :-).
If it is not Panasonic, and Olympus does not have in-house sensor production know-how, then it has got to be a Fuji or Sony.
Jedi mind trick.
I prefer Aesop Rock.
Psst, it´s Panasonic sensor, GH2 architecture, but without multiaspect ratio extension. Happy now?
It´s very good sensor…:)
That’s kinda what I was thinking. Maybe it’s a NEW Panasonic sensor — it’s not going into a Lumix camera yet because it’s between their model-refresh cycles, so they let Olympus have it first on the condition that they don’t reveal where they got it.
That way Panasonic users and dealers don’t get mad that THEY don’t get it first, and it can go into their next model after they’ve straightened out the G/GF/GX/GH model-lineup confusion…
We don’t want you to know who made the sensor because we want you to think it is better than the G3/GX1 one even if it is essentially the same?
Yes more sales hype that is music to Oly ears, but if it works who can blame them for using it?
If you look at the image thread, hilarious all the fanbois who claimed this EM5 was the equivalent of the second coming are now wringing their hands and thinking about cancelling their pre-orders.
Now Olympus won’t tell us where they got the sensor from. Perhaps they are ashamed to say they found it in the Panasonic reject bin?
Admin has you wound around his little finger. He can raise you to the heights or throw you to the ground with a single post.
Muawahah Muawahah!
And yet, here you are posting, too.
Wouldn’t miss this funny show for anything.
What’s your excuse? 😀
That is what Oly promised …….More DR
Now we have it
http://pen-and-tell.blogspot.com/2012/02/e-m5-in-amsterdam.html Nothing about the sensor, but… 😉
So, in my opinion:
– The sensor is really different from the one in the G3
– Most likely is not made by Panasonic
– Most likely is made by Toshiba (who also makes them for Fuji)
– The high ISO performance is in the ballpark with the sensor on the G3 (because the G3 sensor is in the same ballpark as the sensors from Sony and Canon at high ISO, taking the difference in size into account)
– The low ISO performance should be better than the G3 sensor… except that there is not really low ISO! So no matter how good it performs at ISO 200, it will be comparable to a Sony/Canon APS-C sensor at ISO 400, which puts it again in the ballpark of the sensor in the G3.
So: different sensor, same performance.
> Oh guys, I quit.
Is there any other sensor manuf (except Panny) Oly would be ashamed to name? (*)
As soon as the DxO would test the E-M5, it would be pretty easy to match it up against other cameras and see from the performance pattern whose sensor it is. (**)
(*) OK. It also could be that Panny doesn’t want Oly to disclose their loss of the exclusivity supplying Oly’s m43.
(**) I think I have just found a use for the DxO.
Samsung, possibly Kodak but it doesn’t really matter if the IQ is good
Samsung would be a huge step backwards. Their APS-C sensors are even worse than the old 12MP m4/3 sensor from Panasonic…
Simply not true. The sensor is not up to the NEX-5N standards, but it can deliver good IQ and has more RAW headroom compared to the Panny ones. Samsung sensor makes poor first impression because their JPEG engine mighty sucks. But e.g. LR easily brings out very good IQ from the images. Though that still makes the Samsung NX less desirable because it requires more fiddling to get good results out of it. But if your process revolves around the RAWs, then even that is not a problem.
I agree with that, the JPG engine is (or at least was) their main problem. Still, they’re not at Sony’s level and going to Samsung to get a better sensor than the existing 12MP one wouldn’t make much sense.
I still don’t care who made it, but I’m happy that first ISO comparisons show improvement over the old 12 MPx sensor. If it’s indeed better, then it’s not good only for E-M5 owners, it’s good because Olympus traditionally uses the same sensor in its entire ILC range. So, next PENs should have this one as well.
Btw, it’s not Sony, because their new sensors come with focus peaking and image stacking modes which are not present in E-M5. It would be good for m4/3 if there were two sensor suppliers, but I think this one’s a Panasonic or at least “designed by Olympus made by Panasonic”. Something similar to Nikon-Sony partnership.
Peaking and stacking are, unless I’m greatly mistaken, better implemented in software than on the sensor itself.
Exactly. Those aren’t hardware features.
You’re 100% right, but those come in package with every 2011/2012 Sony sensor. For example, Pentax, Ricoh, Nikon, Olympus (P&S) cameras who use Sony sensors have some of those features. It’s up to the buyer to decide which one will be used. So, I guess Olympus would implement something they bought anyway.
I for one would welcome a second (or third, or fourth) sensor supplier in m43. More suppliers = more competition and more choice.
More competition = more progress, better prices.
More choice = more incentive for other camera makers to join m43.
Does the EM-5 feature a sensor from a new manufacturer? There’s not enough information to say right now. But if it did, that would be cause for celebration, not trepidation.
I have been saying all along that it is not Pany. Why are you giving yourself headache? It’s not consumer’s concern who is the manufacturer. Why care? If the image quality and the performance is good, you can choose to buy it. Otherwise, leave it – for whatever reasons the would be buyer deemed fit…
Guys, guys, guys… Just think about it. The sensor could be from Kodak and now because Kodak goes to bancruptie then Olympus does not dare to reveal this. This is my guess 😉
^This is IT!!!
Olympus & Kodak bumped into each other in the halls of bankruptcy court!
Just like when peanut butter & chocolate bumped into each other and made Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups. 😀
good theory 🙂
one guy above has said it’s from a company starting with T… and the Kodak Imaging Division is now known as TrueSense…
I don’t care who makes the damn sensor, but can we all agree that you shouldn’t be able to post if you use the word ‘ergonomy’? The word doesn’t exist in any other form than ergonomic or ergonomics. Next thing will be people talking about the ‘symbology’ of the OM-D line…
If they can’t tell me who makes the sensor, then I guess I just can’t buy the camera. Jesus H christ, they need to get someone with some gawd damn brains working over there.
Its a stroke of genius. It has doubled the amount of attention this camera is getting.
I don’t care who makes the sensor, but can we all agree that you shouldn’t be able to post if you use the word ‘ergonomy’? The word doesn’t exist in any other form than ergonomic or ergonomics. Next thing will be people talking about the ‘symbology’ of the OM-D line…
While the E-M5 looks great, Oly’s marketing of it has been pathetic. First, we get a series of ridiculous leaks about its appearance and now we have Terada saying he can’t tell us who made the sensor. Of course, he didn’t say why he couldn’t tell us because there is no rational reason for not doing so.
I guess Oly assumes virtually all of us will simply overlook their unwillingness to be honest with their customer base, which may be the case.
Personally, I came very close to ordering this camera (would love to see it beside my OM-1). However, I’m happy with the GH2 and the GH3 will be there when I’m ready to upgrade.
The marketing has been out there for a week so far. What is wrong with the marketing, exactly? I’ve seen the brochures and glossy pamphlets – they look nice. The hands-on reviews will start showing up in a week or two.
This is not a criticism of their inability to disclose the sensor manufacturer, is it? Do you also not buy a car because you don’t know who made the onboard computer, or a dinner at a restaurant because you don’t know what farm the food was grown at?
Seriously, folks, take a step back and breathe. It’ll be a fine camera, just as the Pens and Panasonic G series are fine camera.
Re: Of course, he didn’t say why he couldn’t tell us because there is no rational reason for not doing so.
-Actually, it’s none of our business!
Or more so, none want to reveal industrial secrets to the competitors! Ever heard about NDA’s? Extremely common especially in the semiconductor industry.
Why do you think there are so much reverse engineering going on, with companies like Chipworks micro-examining the circuits down to nano-levels with X-rays ?
Conclusion:
You never reveal from whom you buy your components, especially not with the more strategical ones, like the sensor chip!
The leaks were not marketing, and the interview is just an interview and not marketing.
Marketing is http://www.olympusomd.com
Olympus’ financial statement is available online, since it’s a publicly traded company. If anyone could check whether there’s a new posting on “account payable” section related to camera manufacturer, it may be the new sensor supplier. The Q42011 financial statement should be available really soon.
whoever financing Olympus in April will be the one who supply the sensor. Olympus might have a backdoor deal with them to use their sensors. Sony, Samsung or Fuji? Most probably Sony.
-Now it seems Olympus will raise the capital on their own! Seems they don’t need the Sony money at all. Medical Business is a healthy money generator for Olympus.
Panasonic is teaming up with two other japanese semiconductor companies, further advancing in competitive chip manufacuring.
Panasonic will therefore remain the core sensor for Olympus, but with Olympus own customization toppings.
No, Finance and sensor are unrelated.
My guess it’s custom built for Olympus by Truesense Imaging Inc. previously Kodak Image Sensor Solution. I also believe all future Olympus cameras (mirrorless) will use this.
At least for the next 3 years 🙂
Interesting guess..as nobody talked about Kodak, but instead threw out the usual suspects here. I really hope you are right, because kodak sensors are special.
agree. I still have a E-500 paired with a Pany Leica 14-50mm… colors are terrific.
At this point it’s academic. 1.5 stops better ISO than Pen 3 and 0.3 ev better DR than Pen 3 put it squarely as a GX1 sensor performance, irrelevant of who makes it- which is probably Panasonic anyway.
I think it’s a step forward though not as big of a step as some (me included in that group) would like. But the whole package for the price is good (USD USA price).
The naughty CEO should tell the sensor manufacyurer. otherwise oneday user found the truth if is not REALLY a new sensor. it will be VERY embarrassing and the scandal in olympus are continue extended.
Why the hell is it embarrassing later?
The E-M5 is not for sale yet. The pre-pro images DO look good so far.
If the E-M5 has better IQ I couldn’t care less who made the sensor or what DxO scoring it gets.
You guys sound like a bunch of insecure adolescents(pubers).
in the last french magasin “Le Chasseur d’Images”, they say that the OM-D sensor is made by Panasonic!!!
Toshiba Sensor roadmap doesn’t show any m4/3 or APS-C:
http://www.toshiba.com/taec/adinfo/cmos/
Any other links?
The volume is for smartphones, and I think Toshiba are among the top four.
Panasonic, Fujitsu and Renesas are consolidating their semiconiductor business, but Panasonic alone are focusing on the imaging sensors.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Panasonic within some time, also produces 35mm sensors again for another DSLR manufacturer.
Time will tell…
Well they are also saying it is the GH2 sensor. I think that they are just relaying on rumors of about 1-2 weeks ago. That doesn’t look like serious news inquiry at all.
About sensor: There is nothing in the statement from Oly saying it is NOT a Panasonic sensor.
Kodak sensors: The Kodak sensor division is already purchased by a company in the business that will continue thr production and development.
About “pro camera”: Wether a camera is “pro” or not, is decided by the market, in this case – cameras that are used by those who earn their living from making photos. And earn money fron photos from the camera
So:
Canon, Nikon (95%?)
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
the rest – niche purposes/pro’s (MF, Leica, Pentax, Oly, Pana etc)
For instance Pana GH2 is used a lot for it’s video capabilities
NO, whether a camera is Pro or not is decided by it’s addition to a Pro Service Program like Olympus, Nikon and Canon have available.
Any camera can be pro in consumers (and thus also professionals) use!
Since 2012 Olympus is free to use the Sensor they like- it was written … in the 43 rumors! 🙂 (long time ago)
=> so it is true that it is NO Pana-Sensor.
Flawed argument! If that rumor is true, they are free to choose any sensor they want, including ones from Panasonic.
Possible reason for secrecy: they have made a long term contract with a manufacturer (say, three years), but cannot reveal it because that might reduce the interest in investing in Olympus/other companies to buy the camera division (e.g Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc might want to spread the use of their sensors if they invest). Or then again, maybe not :-).
no really
this is just what Olympus are like, they never tell anyone anything, and they have the slimmest relationship with ‘partner’ Panasonic, to whom they also say nothing. The truth is these people are tighter than the KGB
Im surprised Terada said what he did, but he would clearly be authorised to do so and it would be quite deliberate, so work that one out.
GH3 Sensor – Can’t Reveal Prior to Panny
I hope it isn’t – and the GH3 sensor will be actually much-much better.
:)) Does it have multiaspect ratio extended sensor with global shutter and architecture capable to catch RGB in one photodiode, with no interpolation? If so, than it really might be GH3 sensor.
Awesome pic of Antwerp. Gaaf.
I looked through the manual that is now available online. Unfortunately, there is very little new, compared to the E-P3. The same irritating limitations still apply. You still can’t activare the histogram and level gauge simultaneously.
New full size sample shots taken with OM-D!! http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1381/compact-olympus-om-d-e-m5-exemples-photos-15.html
Thanks Niko, those images are great.The images look like made by Sony sensor to me. In Japan, the majority of people is thinking it is not a Panasonic sensor.
The bracketing mode is still implemented in the wrong manner and there’s no intervalometer.
Sensor is Alien Technology. Don’t even think about it!
Mr. Terada .. we are not buying the E-M5 until you tell us who made the friggin sensor.
I saw him at breakfast and all he said was Kellogs
So other than the move from 12 to 16 megapixel, there will be no difference between the EP-3 and the E-M5???
stick around, its way different
http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1381/compact-olympus-om-d-e-m5-exemples-photos-15.html
just wondering if the ISO start from 200, is that mean i will get i gain one stop compare with the camera ISO starting at 100.
for example, if i two camera aiming at the same scene, will olympus one stop higher speed if both camera are at same aperture.