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Panasonic had a Question and Answer (Q&A) session with Mobile01 (Click here).
Our reader Jesper translated the most important parts:
1. GX1 and GF3 was developed at the same time. GX1 was named GF7
2. They are currently no plans for new colors, but it could change if the market demands it.
3. Shutter lag is an issue Panasonic will improve for future G serie
4. Silky-pix sucks, they will definitely improve that, but i will take time
5. Build quality of Panasonic lenses will improve, see Olympus new quality lenses.
6. Reason why they kept 460k screen is the concern of risk of decreased brightness for high density screen.
7. Tilt and swivel screen were not included due to the size.
I would like to hear from you if you also think that the low resolution screen and absence of tilting capabilities is a drawback on the GX1.
Reminder: Imaging Resource (Click here) is hosting a live Q&A on the GX1 (There will be IR editors only, no Panasonic representant).
Reminder_2: The GX1 is already in Stock in Asia at Digitalrev (PAL version). It should arrive in Europe and USA by end of December: [shopcountry 26836].
177 Responses
Definitely the lack of a tilt screen (and the low resolution of the screen) are dealbreakers for me. I also would have preferred a viewfinder. There is not really a good reason for me to choose the GX1 over the G3 (or GH2).
Same for me. I’m a GH2 user and will wait for the GH3.
GH3 needs metal body, weather-sealing better DR and ISO to be returned to 100.
“better DR and ISO to be returned to 100.”
+1
and 12 Mpix with multi-aspect is ok for me
not metal – plastic is plenty strong….
Plastic looks and feels cheap and looks and feels even worse with age. There’s a reason that the highend DSLR’s like the 5DII & other top end Nikons and Canons are all metal construction and it isn’t because they didn’t want to spend extra to make them in plastic instead.
Reason is, they need metal for hanging 600mm lenses on the front of a 2kg camera – metal has ZERO advantage (in these cameras) other than perception – dimond would be better …. plastic, because of its shock absorption properties is a better material for the job – lighter, stronger (in this context), cheeper. Modern plastics are the right material for the job – what would be better about metal? N.B. plastic does not look worse with age – it does not degrade… maybe scratches make it look worse, but paint on metal will come away too…
So yeh if you want your camera to make a statement about you then metal is better – but so is having gold plated lenses 🙂
Jim, well said. 100 percent agreed.
Well, that is not true. A body, made of good, sturdy plastic is preferable to a body with a thin metal cover, like the Olympus PENs. These metal body bodies with no or too small grips, feel slippery and cold in the hands. Bodies like the GH2 have a more solid feel and have a much better grip. Additionally thin metal bodies are more prone to visibly disturbing scratches than black plastic bodies.
So, apart some subjective design aspects (the “look”), the metal cover does not have any particular advantages in m4/3 bodies, where metal is mostly used only to give the camera a more expensive look.
How about make it made of Carbon Fibre?
It’s stronger, lighter and it’s defenately not cheap (or feel cheap).
@Redkite
I dropped my GH1 accidentally onto concrete on Saturday night (from about 5 foot high) and it works fine, also have used near the sea and in extreme weather conditions…
I agree with the above.. A bit disappointing, actually. Although it would be interesting to test the IQ and AF performance hands-on..
@anyone
can someone/anyone explain to me why anyone needs a higher resolution screen on the back of a camera, what purpose would it serve?????????
I don’t understand it either. The GF1 screen is perfectly fine.
To review critical sharpness in the field? Also on my GH2 in high bit video mode I see all kinds of artifacts on the 460k screen that don’t actually exist when viewed in full resolution. Very disconcerting.
@Justin
you zoom in on play back or during shooting use enlarged view!
hampers flow. The fewer actions required for a specific outcome the better.
@stickytape
the LCD’s on my 4-5 year old cameras have enough sharpness and ease of use for critical sharpness.
crap, you cant say zoom in and who needs it… its like saying who needs more than 3Mpix and 400ISO… – I want at least 1920×1080 HD screen on the back (3.5″) – my EP1 is crud! – you can not check focus in MF without messing about lots – Why is it eveyone loves the VF2 – because its high enough res to do critical MF with…. as well as using in sun light and 3 point contact.
@Panasonic system of shooting enlarged view has always been better than Olympus (being using enlarged view since the Panasonic L10).
agree – but having a 1080 on the rear will stop any faffing around – just focus – no zoom – no VF – no anything – MF fast as can be… befor you say it 1080 on 3.5″ is not too high… its probably about right quality for the eye… will look lovely and I still think a high contrast single pixel row/columb would be decernable.
1920×1080 on a 3.5″ screen – you wouldn’t even be able to tell the difference between that and say 1024×600 on a screen that size. You literally wouldn’t be able to see it.
Though with a Loupe it might be nice. Still I think 640×480 (921k dots) is still plenty for most users. I think 1024×768 would be the maximum we would ever need for a screen of that size (3.5″).
Issue of need aside; can you explain why a $950 enthusiast interchangeable lens camera has a lesser LCD than the $270 Nikon P300 has? This can be overlooked on the GF3 when considering its price, but not on the GX1. 920k LCD or 614k OLED’s are now the standard for this grade of camera.
As far as the issue of need goes; I personally think the Panasonic screens look very dated at this point. I use an iPhone 4 every single day and when I see a pixelated screen it now bothers me. While the OLED screen Olympus uses in the EP3/XZ1 isn’t as sharp as Sony’s “trublack” NEX displays, it is very bright and easy to see in daylight. Both make the standard 460k Panasonic LCD look very very dated. Which is a problem since they chose not to include an EVF in the body a’la the NEX-7.
@Eric
sounds like you almost agree with my point that a high res screen is only justified on a mobile phone or other device where you spend at large amount of time viewing, which isn’t the case with cameras 😀
As opposed to EVF-less m43 cameras, where you presumably compose/shoot/review using… your imagination?
yeh – the screen is the only way to see the shot – and considering this is an imaging device I would expect it to have a better screen than a phone!
What do you mean isn’t the case with cameras? Every time I delve into the menu system I read text. Every time I compose a shot I look at the screen. Every time I review pics (which I do a lot of), I look at the screen. A high quality screen is certainly needed on a camera.
Olympus got the same reaction from enthusiasts on the E-P1/P2 if you recall. A company can’t try and pass off a sub-standard screen on an expensive camera without people noticing.
@Eric
so at the moment you can’t read the text in your menus and a higher res LCd would improve your composition?
I’m not saying a higher res screen is going to make me a better photographer. I’m saying a higher res screen will make the user experience much better. Which is the reason I buy enthusiasts cameras in the first place. If all I cared about were simply the results I’d run out and buy a Nikon D5100 right now because I assure you it can do anything I need a camera to do. However, I don’t do so because I don’t enjoy using that camera.
Of course none of this changes the fact that Panasonic is simply trying to pass off an inferior LCD on a higher end camera and making up BS reasons as to why.
+10
Our expectations of how our M4/3 cameras should work and what would make using them easier and better has evolved since they first appeared.
Small cameras with large sensors and interchangeable lenses were a revelation when they came out and many were satisfied with a P&S/rangefinder inspired bodies. After a few years, we see how they work, what we like, don’t like and what improvements could be added to make the user experience better and more flexible.
Built-in EVFs and movable high-res LCDs seem to be pretty high on most users’ lists, whether we use Olympus or Panasonic.
For proof, look at the reactions to the NEX-7 from M4/3 users and elsewhere.
It seems hard for some people to accept as real, specific feature inferiorities that our m43 manufacturers are delivering to us. When I read that someone would like a higher res screen, I accept that as a valid need, and can’t figure out why others want to convince you that what the camera makers are giving us is perfectly fine, no improvement needed. Why would we want a camera company to give us watered-down equipment when we know that they are capable of doing better.
I agree with you, Eric, that the explanation about lower res displays is complete BS.
@kman
nope, just that they should concentrate on other areas to improve the user experience instead of distractions such as focus peaking, ultra hi res LCD’s etc
geeesusss – do you use MF lenses?
Hi res LCD and focus peaking are what I dream of???!
@Jim
Yep I use manual focus lenses everyday, also often even if they have auto focus I shot manual focus.
The point is that each of these areas needing improvement add up to many areas needing improvement. Your definition of what’s important is not the same as everyone else here. There is a growing list of things that the manufacturers should be keeping up with, because they are real advantages and real improvements. Geez, if it were up to you to create the roadmap for m43rds, there would be no need for the manufacturers to continue r&d, because what we have is already good enough. That’s crazy.
+1 Eric
+1 YouDidntDidYou
Your question is best answered with a question:
Why would anyone need a higher resolution viewfinder?…
With the GX1 (and all other EVF-less EVIL cameras) the screen is designed to be the primary method of composing the shot which includes checking focus. A higher resolution is valuable until it reaches a point where greater pixel density is no longer discernable (Apple calls this a Retina display). The current PanOlympus screen resolutions still have a ways to go. A higher resolution screen would represent a considerable upgrade to me.
I’ve been shooting LCD from day one( about 5 years) and use my cameras every day, I’ve only ever taken 2 photos with an EVF and never any with an OVF.
With all respect, the main problem with your arguments is that you seem to find it incomprehensible that anybody else has needs that are different than your own. You like to shoot with an LCD- fair enough. But there have been hundreds of posts on this forum from people that don’t like to (or can’t) work that way – and you seem to dismiss those posts as frivolous (distractions as you call them).
Frankly an LCD is inferior to a viewfinder both for visibility and for composition reasons. I’m happy that an LCD works for you, but the desire for something better (either a proper viewfinder or an enhanced LCD) is hardly a distraction. Its something that can materially affect the quality of every photograph that one takes – unlike say supporting ISO 12,800.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it feels pointless to me to go to great lengths to try to convince people that they don’t need a proper visualization tool for a visual art.
@RW – Your point that different folks value different things is valid, but then you go on to do everything you’re accusing @Youdidn’tdidyou of. An LCD is not ‘inferior’ to a viewfinder for composition, it’s just different. It can be very valuable to be able to see what is out of frame as well as what is in frame. You can shoot with the camera in a wide range of different positions. Some touchscreen features are actually quite useful. Sure a VF is useful in very bright light or if you actually want to have that blinkered ‘no distractions’ perspective. In the end it’s just a preference thing, not a ‘pro vs amateur’ thing. I think @Youdidn’tdidyou is just responding to all the condescending pontification that “LCD = P&S” which is patently untrue and says more about the style-over-substance approach of some posters than the respective merits of different viewfinders. That said, higher resolution and tilting would be good – except that the latter will undoubtedly increase the size of the GX1, which will lead to a fresh round o complaints. It’s a balancing act, and @Youdidn’tdidyou is simply saying – they’ve got it about right for him/her.
well, to check focus quality and if a shot is not really in focus , you can always reshoot it.
with low resolution LCD , you cannot see how well focused a shot might be.
usually high res LCDs of Canons are great but that of Pentax(the K5) and Sony(A900)are not as good as the one used in the 7D or D7000.
but the latest Sony LCDused in A77V and NEX5n seem to be much better than the one used in the A900/A850,etc.
‘usually high res LCDs of Canons are great but that of Pentax(the K5) and Sony(A900)are not as good as the one used in the 7D or D7000.
but the latest Sony LCDused in A77V and NEX5n seem to be much better than the one used in the A900/A850,etc.’
Where exactly do you get that from? I mean really? They are all pretty decent and all of those mentioned are significantly better than the ones in the Panasonic range.
What do you consider the specific advantages of the 7D and D7000 LCDs over the A900 or K5?
They can also say that the engineering team is too lazy and the marketing team didn’t do their research. If they want to set themselves apart just embed the LVF into the body and call it a day.
After about 3 years, they still can’t figure out what we want for a professional grade compact camera. The marketing team fail big time!
Its really messed up that Panasonic marketing (who should all have been fired) and design (who should also all be fired) cannot take a clue from Fuji. Their new X100 and X10 miss the mark on some areas but on the ares they hit they hit a bullseye and have done really well for Fuji. Sony also listens well to their customers which was a shocker to me.
M43 system is so neat that with one generation of killer cameras from Olympus and Panasonic they could really capture a lot of market share but do you really see the tightass japanese suits “getting” what we need? I doubt it.
Digitalrev are overpriced. Shops in HK have stock at far lower prices.
http://www.price.com.hk/product.php?p=134723
yeah, even here in Japan it’s much cheaper than that and its price is now rapidly dropping, I guess it is not selling well.
I didn’t think shutter lag was a major issue. But if they can make it faster that would be great. Better AF tracking is even more important though to take on the role played by SLRs.
For me it’s simple. I will not buy a camera with a fixed screen. Period.
The excuses about the fixed, low-res screen are a total crock of shit. Even Olympus managed to fit one into the EPL3, which added a ounce of weight and only 3 or 4 mm of thickness. Panasonic could easily have used the GH2 or G3 LCD in the GX1.
Who do think they’re trying to fool?
I’ll buy an EPL3 before a GX1.
“Panasonic could easily have used the GH2 or G3 LCD in the GX1.”
Considering an external tilting viewfinder, LVF2, I see no point to compromise the sturdiness of the camera by the built-in swivel LCD. By the way, according to my friends in our camera repair store, the tilted LCD screen in NEX-3 and 5 are one of the most common damages they see in mirrorless ILCs.
Igor, I see no reason for an external EVF to be tilting. No reason at all.
Tiltable LCD’s most commonly used for the two tasks: to shoot near the ground and to shoot above the heads of crowds. None of that is possible when you use EVF (tiltable or not – does not matter). So – tilting mechanism in EVF is useless
Also, using the tilt screen to shoot from waist level adds a lot of utility. TiltyUtility! 😉
• It adds great stability for shooting in low light. I can pull the camera strap tight to add a bit more.
• It makes using manual focus far easier when using the LCD.
• It’s a discrete position for social and street shooting. When people don’t see a camera at face level and you looking away, it’s easier to get unselfconscious shots.
When I decided on getting a M4/3 camera, the GH2’s articulated screen + EVF was an unbeatable combo.
@Igor An EVF and LCD are used in different ways, at different times. An EPL3 with BOTH the TiltyScreen™ and TiltyEVF™ would be a fantastic combo. Or a NEX-5N for that matter.
That is why I do not get all the controversy about the GX1. IF you want an EVF and a tilty,swifely, urber screen..it here now on the GH2? The GX1 is just not that camera..The GH2 is that camera.
I am not looking at the GH2 and saying..well if it had a fixed screen and no hump…I would buy it!!! 🙂
I am looking at the GH2 and thinking, if it had an EVF without the hump, then I would buy it! And a tilting LCD would be even better!
Basically, people don’t want to carry a dslr-looking camera on the street because it looks more intimidating and carries connotations of professional work, whereas a rectangular body looks more like a p&s, which the general public are more comfortable with.
I think it’s easy to understand why the GX1 was so underwhelming if you compare it to the NEX-7. Despite its price, the NEX-7 body was what everyone was waiting for (in-built EVF, in-built flash, tilting screen), even though some might prefer that the dials had set functions.
If only it was a m4/3 body.
The G3 sure isn’t intimidating and doesn’t look at all like my 5D. The ‘hump’ and grip are subtle and its smaller than my GF1 with aux EVF. Down the road I’ll reconsider but for now the G3 hits all my buttons with tilt screen, EVF, easy buttons for control and small enough to fit into my handbag or even big coat pockets. and really good IQ including higher ISOs than my GF1 for one thing. The obsession with “faux” DSLR seems over the top. I don’t think any one would mix up my G3 with a DSLR unless it has a big lens on it and once you mount those, all cameras can be intimidatingl
If only it was a m4/3 body becasue of the m43 lenses–the perfect balance of iq and size. If sony had the lenses I would be getting a nex-7. I am intrigued by using leica glass but I think I would miss AF too much (even with peaking).
I for one am looking forward to panasonic removing its head from its arse and giving us all the camera we want.
+1
I agree. People who need fixed EVF and movable LCD already have GH2 and G3.
For myself, I need a strong compact ILC.
From the designer point of view, less movable parts means a more sturdy camera. Look for example, on the the NEX3 behavior during the drop tests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBXFEu2cra0
I often use LVF1 tilted to 90 degrees for low-angle shots.
At the same time, I would prefer a plastic LCD-screen protectors,like ones used in Nikon DSLRs.
May I ask what the key differences between the G3 and GH2 are? I have never quite understood the need for two SLR bodies in the line. Perhaps they should implement a tilting hump in the GH3, as I don’t comprehend the point of a compact body if adding an external EVF will make it the same size as the G3.
The point about moving parts and sturdiness is true. However, locking mechanisms can be implemented that would stop the screen flopping away from the body. It has to be noted that in the video, the screen is still working even after an unknown fault has occurred inside the camera.
I assume that most people don’t throw their cameras around on a daily basis on the assumption that it will still work afterwards.
The problem is the GH2 is a relatively large DSLR-style camera (something a number of users simply don’t want no matter how many times people say “just buy as GH2”). Sony has proven that a camera with a built in EVF doesn’t need to be any larger than a GX1. As seen here:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonicdmcgx1/images/comparedtonex7.jpg
Then there’s the G3. That camera simply doesn’t have the build quality an enthusiast expects.
Panasonic simply dropped the ball on the GX1. They got lazy and let Sony surpass them in this style of camera (and Fuji is about to one up both of them it seems).
OK..buy a Sony, then! 🙂
I already have a GH2, but why should that stop me from pushing for similar features in more than just the G3, which is essentially a stripped-down GH2.
I’d like a second camera body that I can use pancakes on. I’d like a TiltyScreen™ at the very least. With thatI could even forgo an EVF, if the resolution were high enough.
@sticky… the GH2 is small and pretty non-intimidating. I use mine for street shooting all the time, holding it in the palm of my left hand while working the focus ring, the LCD extended and right thumb on the shutter. Not many people notice.
The intimidation factor depends more on who’s driving the thing.
Tiltable LCD is also very fine for macro !
The most common LCD damage is scratching due to its being vulnerable to handling all the time. But repair shops don’t tend to see that unless its excessive, because the user thinks it is their fault and will cost them big time to fix ;~).
well, it is true but the LCD of the NEX5n is much tougher and improved upon the one used in the NEX5 original.
One of my main reasons for buying a GH1 and after that a GH2. And I too will never by a camera without a swivel-tilt screen.
@Mr. Reeee
you can view the OLED screen of the Olympus EP-3 from quite extreme angles so I will be considering the EP-3 successor…
I totally agree. As a GH2 and D7000 owner, I will never again buy a camera with a fixed screen. The tilt/swivel screen is just too useful.
I laugh every time I read the ‘bullshit’ comment in Jasper’s translation 😀
+1 LOL
I don’t know if the lack of swivel screen or low rez LCD is a “dealbreaker” for me, but certainly a bummer. I think if this thing was priced around $500, then people would be much happier about this camera…
+10!
$699 is almost as bad as the EP3 @$799 (body only, who wants crappy kit lenses). Both are overpriced.
At least the EP3 has a high-res touchscreen. It’s a really nice screen, too. Bummer (and dumb omission) that it doesn’t tilt.
Panasonic has only 32″ and above size TFT MP lines currently.
Therefore, outsourcing is only method for Pana to get TFT panel of camera.
(Outsourcing = money, you got what you pay for.)
Maybe next year when Pana starts to produce small size panels,
there will be high-resolution screen at Lumix G-series camera.
BTW, E-PL3 has no built-in flash and no touch panel.
I think E-P3 is proper comparative object with GX1.
(But for weight comparison, E-P3 is 49g heavier…)
Since Panasonic missed to present a body with EVF and a better DR sensor, I must say I lost my interest in Panasonic!
I am waiting for the NEX 7 to be shipped!
Too bad Panasonic!!
And what kind of lenses are you planing to use with?
I reckon that Sony misses to present the ideal lenses.
However, on Sony roadmap, a new G transstandard high quality zoom should be presented beginning of 2012. That’s soon!
And there are rumors of coming pancakes which should make everybody happy… hopefully!
Voigtländer RF lenses would be a great match. The 35mm and 40mm f1.4 Noktons, for instance.
Hell, the NEX autofocus is so slow and inaccurate, you’d be better off with MF + focus peaking. Yes, I have tried both NEX-5N and NEX-7. Nice cameras, I must say.
@ TheEye Good one. 🙂
Or take good crap. 😉
I was at my local bike shop one time and some shaver (roadie) whipped out a gram scale to weigh parts. He was NOT amused by that wisecrack.
I bought a NEX-5n to play around with until the NEX-7’s start shipping/Fuji LX is announced (whichever comes first). I uses a Voitlander 35mm 2.5 skopar on it. Nice little lens if you don’t care about focusing closer than 2.5′. I however find the close focus issue to be rather annoying. It doesn’t bother me up on 75mm+ equivalent lenses, but 35-50mm eqv primes I want to be able to focus closer then that. If I stick with Sony I’m afraid I will have to take the plunge on the Zeiss 24mm.
I don’t think Sony’s AF is all that bad to be honest. It’s not as fast as Panasonic or Olympus, but there is virtually no shutter lag, so that helps. In good light I rarely ever have an issue with AF speed/accuracy. It struggles in low light, but so does every other mirrorless camera aside from the Nikon J/V1.
It’s very difficult to shoot with a roadmap or a rumor attached to your camera.
But it’s your money.
“Hell, the NEX autofocus is so slow and inaccurate, you’d be better off with MF + focus peaking”
Great argument. LOL. 🙂
Welcome to the 21st century.
well, the NEX5n and 7 AF speed is not that slow and inaccurate , I think you are doing something wrong with these cameras, I mean as you are a MFT user , you might not know NEX AF setting very well.
so, try it again and compare it to your MFT cameras side by side.
the NEX5n has very short shutter lag(20ms)that is even shorter better than that of the 1Dmk4 or D3s.
I was at B&H checking out a NEX-5N and a Sony rep standing right next to me was showed me his NEX-7 when I asked about it and even let me use it for about 10 minutes. He happily answered any questions I had. I think I was plenty darn close to the source for that impromptu demo.
The damn thing’s autofocus was pathetic. It was slow and wouldn’t lock onto what I was aiming at. In case you’ve not been there, B&H is pretty well lit.
Focus peaking in M mode doing manual focus was great. I was using the Zeiss 24mm lens, I believe. I only wish I’d had a Leica M to NEX adaptor to try out my Voigtländer 35mm f1.4, which I had on my GH2 at the time.
I don’t have any agenda, I just like cameras. The NEX-7 is a nice camera and it was disappointing, it simply compounds the negative NEX lens issues.
If 49 grams more is a deal breaker, you may want to hit the gym or skip wearing socks. :-p
lol
@ Admin: You wrote “swifel”.
#3 and #4 are bullshit too.
Shutter lag is something they knew they had to work on for over 2 years.
Silkypix has sucked for a long time, and the majority of Mac users aren’t using it anyway, they use the MacOS’s built-in RAW converter or use Lightroom or Aperture. They could and SHOULD do away with their proprietary RAW and just use DMG. DMG is an open standard, all the major converters support it and they don’t have to spend any money on proprietary garbage that uses a last-place converter.
dng
Technically, pretty much all of the comments are marketing attempts to whitewash the truth (aka bullshit).
> 1. GX1 and GF3 was developed at the same time. GX1 was named GF7
Probably true, but why the delay then? Perhaps the fact that Panasonic is worried about internal cannibalization? Real reason: Panasonic thinks a GX1 at the same time as the GF3 and G3 would have stolen sales of both. Wrong thinking, bad marketing in my book. First, having a low/high rangefinder-type body isn’t a real problem. Second, having a DSLR/rangefinder choice in high-end bodies isn’t a problem, either. Indeed, if marketed correctly, it does away with all the “GX1 should have an EVF complaints”: if you want an EVF, buy the G3. Of course, the naming sucks, too, as GF3, GX1, and G3 don’t seem to work well together. It should have been GF3, GX3, and G3.
> 2. They are currently no plans for new colors, but it could change if the market demands it.
Real reason: “We’ve gotten burned too many times by producing colors that didn’t sell well, so we stopped, except for the lowest end models where there seems to be some demand for it.”
> 3. Shutter lag is an issue Panasonic will improve for future G serie
What a strange thing to admit, especially when historically the G’s do okay. Real reason: “That Nikon 1 makes us look slow, so we had to say something.”
> 4. Silky-pix sucks, they will definitely improve that, but i will take time
No, it takes looking at the market and selecting something better. Lightroom comes to mind (and Leica has done just that with their relabeled Panasonics). Or just take the need for a converter out completely by making the raw format DNG and saying to users “just use any converter that understands this standard.” Real reason: “We locked into a contract with the Silkypix folk that’s cheap to us but requires us to bundle with everything. Moreover, this allows us not to hire software experts.”
> 5. Build quality of Panasonic lenses will improve, see Olympus new quality lenses.
Another strange thing to admit.
> 6. Reason why they kept 460k screen is the concern of risk of decreased brightness for high density screen (bullshit).
Admin called it. Real reason: “we committed to a lot of these to get prices down.”
> 7. Tilt and swivel screen were not included due to the size.
Again, Admin called it. Real reason: “We were worried the G3 wouldn’t have enough unique features and people wouldn’t buy it instead of a GX1.”
@Thom Hogan
strange you don’t seem so angry with Nikon , Pentax and Sony as you are never/rarely seen at k-rumors (Pentax Q), nikonrumors (Nikon V1 and J1) and sonyalpharumors (Sony Nex5 and 7)bitching…
Why are so angry with micro four thirds????
no wonder your new mirrorless website is doomed to failure.
@YouDidntDidYou
What a dumb post this is from you. Thom talks about m4/3 and not about PentaxQ’s etc because he’s been shooting with m4/3 equipment for a couple of years now. Angry you say? Whew! You should pay a little more attention to how much he’s blasted Nikon in the past on his very successful bythom.com site that’s largely aimed at fellow Nikon users. Time to get a clue and stop embarrassing yourself with this kind of nonsense.
@tmrgrs
….BUT he doesn’t shoot Panasonic mirrorless does he??? Yet still offers opinions.So that throws out your argument.
> strange you don’t seem so angry with Nikon
Hold that thought. Get back to me next week on that.
> you are never/rarely seen at k-rumors (Pentax Q), nikonrumors (Nikon V1 and J1) and sonyalpharumors (Sony Nex5 and 7)bitching…
First, I can’t be everywhere at once, and at the moment mirrorless has much of my attention. Second, once the personal insults and inflammatory rhetoric reaches a certain level and isn’t moderated by the forum provider, there’s little reason to continue to try to discuss things there. Third, I’m actually reasonably active on Nikon Rumors, though a couple of recent big threads happened when I was traveling and didn’t have access to the Internet.
As for the Pentax Q, I’ll get around to covering it. But I try to prioritize my time on how products are doing in the market.
@Thom Hogan
“But I try to prioritize my time on how products are doing in the market.”
So Sony Nex isn’t doing well in the market then?
Nothing personal.. just your name/association with Nikeon brought back loads of unpleasant memories.
BGLOD, remember that? 😉
NEF files and the mandatory Nike software..
Crippled cams…
Tilt/swivel?!? HELLO! Even the >$6,000 Nikon cams don’t have them.
Nikon V1? You must be kidding!! Club that with the Pentax toy. LOL!
Not sure what your point is. I was very harsh against Nikon on both BGLOD and the encrypted NEF issues at the time. I think you might be surprised by the tone of my upcoming Nikon 1 review, too ;~).
Point is that you are known as a Nikon guy. Anything you say, especially criticism of other brands, would be shaded by that.
FWIW, I stopped reading reviews. I saw/handled the Nikon toys, er, the 1 cams in person and that is more than enough. 😉
+1111
@Thom Hogan
Technically, pretty much all my comments are marketing attempts to whitewash the truth (aka bullshit).
> 1. GF3 is more likely to be bought at Christmas/Thanks giving than a pro camera like the GX1 so maybe they were prioritising?
> 2. They have produced the upper models in less colours anyway so this is consitent
> 3. Shutter lag is an issue Panasonic will improve for professional photographers (from the original article) and have made great strides on already. The Nikon 1’s aren’t really contenders.
> 4. Panasonic have been doing lightroom promotions for some time and computer photo editing software quite rightly shouldn’t be a high priority for them.
> 5. You dislike Panasonic’s honesty?
> 6. Maybe they are giving the market what it really needs/wants/is not bothered about, at least when you take a picture on a mobile camera you are more likely to show it to someone directly unlike a camera, so why the need to keep asking for higher resolution screens on the back of cameras it won’t make your photos any better…
> 7.GX1 target market won’t be as fussed on a tilt and swivel screen
> 1. GF3 is more likely to be bought at Christmas/Thanks giving than a pro camera like the GX1 so maybe they were prioritising?
ALL cameras are more likely to be bought in the Christmas shopping season. Next highest is Graduation/Summer Vacation market, followed by Father’s Day.
> 2. They have produced the upper models in less colours anyway so this is consitent
Not exactly true. The GH1 was produced in colors that didn’t sell. They’ve now backed off from that at the high end.
> 3. Shutter lag is an issue Panasonic will improve for professional photographers (from the original article) and have made great strides on already. The Nikon 1′s aren’t really contenders.
You are great at inconsistent arguments. You seem to be mixing two things simultaneously to try to make a point. Let’s just talk about shutter lag (and its relative, focus acquisition speed). The Nikon 1 is state-of-the-art there. The Panasonics are decent but not at that level (I actually didn’t disparage their shutter lag, I just commented that this was a strange thing to admit to on a newly released camera).
> 4. Panasonic have been doing lightroom promotions for some time and computer photo editing software quite rightly shouldn’t be a high priority for them.
Promotions are not the same thing as bundling software. I actually agree that software shouldn’t be a high priority for the camera makers to worry about in the box. What they should worry about is that all the good software is iterating when they come out with a new camera. In the case of most GX1 purchasers, I’ll bet that the majority already has some raw converter software, so the issue is really how fast does that software update.
> 5. You dislike Panasonic’s honesty?
Not at all. Though since you continue to support Olympus management’s DIShonesty (e.g. recent dpreview post), I see you like to drink out of both sides of your cup. But marketing is about setting expectations. The expectation that Panasonic set several times in their recent interviews is “next stuff will be better.” That doesn’t exactly sell the current stuff.
> 6. why the need to keep asking for higher resolution screens on the back of cameras it won’t make your photos any better…
First, you are wrong on that count. It’s obvious that you don’t really use legacy lenses via adapter on your m4/3 cameras. The current displays are less than VGA quality. It takes a ~900k dot screen to be VGA in quality level, and I’d say that VGA is a good target to shoot for. Is the current screen okay? Yes, it’s “okay.” But “okay” is not “good.”
> 7.GX1 target market won’t be as fussed on a tilt and swivel screen
I would disagree with you. The high-end enthusiast is actually the one looking for swivel screens the most. It shows up in every user survey.
1. You’ve stated the obvious, but doesn’t answer my point.
For instance the sales of the Nikon D3 might be highest just before the wedding season starts because that’s when photographer’s cash flow is highest (I can’t really see them being bought as xmas or father’s day gifts)
2. The GH1 was produced in Black, Red and Blue. I don’t remember seeing loads of unsold red and blue so I’m guessing they weren’t produced in great quantities.
3. You compared it to the Nikon 1 when he was talking about the GX1 which are 2 different markets.
4. Sometimes promotions are better because it drives more interaction and Pansonic can get more info on their users.
5.Yep both sides of the cup because that’s how life is.
“The expectation that Panasonic set several times in their recent interviews is “next stuff will be better.” That doesn’t exactly sell the current stuff.” works for the iphone etc and not everyone is in the market to buy right this minute… but wants info/re-assurance for when they are…
6. Lol I’m the king of using non native micro four thirds lenses on my GH1 good 90% of my photos.
7. GX1: simple answer is we will see…
anyways Tilt and swivel LCD’s don’t sit well on smaller cameras (fine for the GH1 and GH2) in everyday practical use, also it would feel less Leica like if it had a fully tilt and swivel LCD.
Agree with you except point 3) – I doubt it was the Nikon that scared them… Probably closer to home (E-P3)….
In my opinion , the E-PL3 is very attractive due to it’s tilt screen . I love to shoot picture at holding the camera at waist level , and I was considering the E-PL3 to be my “sidearm”…but the decision was hold due to the scandal of Olympus …… Also i love the small size of the PZ14-42….
Actually I didn’t mind the GX-1 is similar to the GF-1 , but the tilt screen really attractive ….also there’s a rumor about the new X lens have the weather seal ability , seems a camera of weather seal will be available soon. So I’m still wait and not going to buy the E-PL3 , nether the GX-1……
I agree with all the above in regards to the fact that Panasonic is full of shit about their reasons for the resolution of the screen and their reason for not having a tilt screen. That said, I am a GF1 owner and I use the GF1 exclusively with a viewfinder for still photos only. I am still going to buy the GX1 camera for its: size, build quality, increased image quality (for me that is a significant change), and the great increase in focusing speed and especially for its higher rez viewfinder. I understand if you own a G3 or GF2 ..that there is no reason for you to buy this camera…as a matter of fact…Pany is not marketing this camera to you. I personally do not care one way or the other about the whether the camera has an articulating screen and I only use my screen for playback (it would be nice to have an upgrade in resolution there though…but its not a deal-breaker). Viewfinder and improvement in that item is a MUST for me.
I still will be buying the camera with a lack of enthusiasm because the sensor is not a truly new generation, some thing that could, let’s say blow the Nikon V1 off the map. That is not here and that to me is a great disappointment. I think that a change like that is a long ways away. I have a great commitment to the system in owning 9 lenses..so this is enough significant improvement for me to finally pull the trigger.
I also plan on keeping my GF1 and will continue to use it as shooting with primes it is always an asset to have two bodies ready to roll with different focal lengths attached.
So….I am happy about this camera and viewfinder combo…but not jumping out of my seat with joy…
If I was in the bleachers and had not bought into mirrorless yet…I would definitely take pause before buying this camera and VF based on the high cost and also for what the competition is offering.
I am on the same line as you, please one question : could you explain why so many lenses, especially 20 and 25 pany separate use ?
Thanks
The primes are just faster and sharper than the zooms especially the 14-42 zooms (both the normal and the new X). Although I have to say the Pany 7-14 F/4 zoom I own is pretty damn sharp..but quite a bit of distortion to deal with.
Kit zooms have slow f/stops forcing you to shoot at higher ISO in many situations….and in a format that does not compare to a FF DSLR in the higher ISO area (to say the least), it is really important for me to keep the ISO low with MFT. That is the sweet spot where you get great photos from MFT for me. Fast prime lenses allow me to do that..they are sharper AND I can at least approach decent bokeh with a prime if I need it.(nothing like an 85mm f/1.2 on a FF camera…but trying to get there…:-)) I also find that shooting with a prime forces me to make a picture (i.e. a decision..LOL) …where a zoom just makes me lazy.
+++ Bob!
Kit-zooms for zoom and crop! Where I’m from that’s called graphic design. 😉
The 7-14mm is the only zoom I use with any regularity. Fantastic lens. Too bad it’s not f2.8, but It would look like one of those just announced Zeiss cine lenses. Hand-truckable!
Thanks for the answer about zooms : i am again with you, but the question was about primes : is there real otjer reason than size to own both 20 and 25 ?
The 20mm is really small and a great street lens, environmental portraits etc…….you get a little more in the frame..greater depth of field to catch street action…and it is sooooo small compared to the 25mm…but I think the 25mm is even sharper and you can get in tight with it and get more bokeh… I own both and kind of use them for different things. If you can only own one..that is a tough choice.
i have an gf1 too.. but i dont find a good reason to upgrade.. i don’t give a damn for Tiltable LCD but i care about DR and better iso .. ( here’s an upgrade ) so i’ll stick with GF1 till some REAL good m43 camera with classic design ( no touchscreen and bullshit ) came out .
There are “Pros” that make me think about upgrading to GX1.
Here is one of the lists from
http://www.mu-43.com/f108/featured-forum-post-gx1-initial-impressions-sample-iso-1600-image-19212/
”
3/5 slightly smaller with better grip
2/5 higher quality feel (subjective)
4/5 faster handling
3/5 faster AF
5/5 improved sensor for shooting at sensitivities higher than ISO800
5/5 highlight roll-off a bit smoother
”
Two other things to consider: superior external EVF and touch-screen interface.
Inferior (?) DR is my concern though.
I have been using this site only for a brief while and I have to say that I love it! 🙂
If I were in the Panasonic development and marketing, this where I will come to check the pulse.
And here is the exemplification of why, even if they read the blog, it doesn’t help:
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2000-01-02/
Superb! 🙂
Once again, I am pleased that one does not have to use colorful expletives to express extreme displeasure. 😉
Vivek…if Panasonic comes here…they ignore EVERYTHING that we have to say!!!!! LOL!
Perhaps. What I still can not grapple with is- how in the world they came up with the G1 and shook the camera world upside down?!?
What they are doing now is entirely in line with the previous stuff they made in the 4/3rds mount. Way over priced, wannabe Leica stuff and not a big hit with the buyer market.
@Vivek
It wasn’t Panasonic that shook the world, it was Olympus with the E-P1.
The G1 was more of the same, it was just missing the mirror, that’s all.
From a technical pov the Panasonic was ahead on the olympus for speed and ease of use, but Olympus caught-up. At the moment, Olympus’ only problem is the sensor. Technically they (Olympus) are allready ahead (stills not video).
I’d say Panasonic is more video orientated.
All I remember (just one person) is the curtain trick and the blendtech advert, as far as Olympus goes, even though the m4/3rds mount is a very slight modification of the venerable Olympus Pen F mount (which was already used by Panasonic years ago in their CCTV cameras- they even made several adapters for it- I have some of them).
Let us not forget that it is the Panasonic NMOS sensor that enabled Olympus (even in their 4/3rds cams) to have real liveview.
digifan…”Olympus’s only problem is the sensor”…gee…that’s all???…LMAOROTF.
imo the GX1 is a great update to the gf1. Better sensor, better AF, better build, better optional evf, etc. I would certainly choose it over the E-P3, even if that has a nicer amoled screen.
Compared to the G3, however, it only seems to offer better build, in exchange for loss of EVF and tiltable screen.
Nice to have such diverse options in m43.
I agree with others. The lack of a tilt-screen is a dealbreaker for me. Even the Nikon Coolpix P7100 has one; it adds a minimum of size and really increases functionality and possibilities.
While i agree many of the claims are strange, is it really bullshit about the swivel-screen? It seems pretty apparant that such a screen does indeed occupy more space than a fixed screen.
Yes, but even a tilt screen would have made most happy. (A friend had the Nikon Coolpix P7100 P&S and that is a great example of something like that working.)
The question is functionality vs. possibly an insignificant size increase. If potential buyers are looking more for functionality, then this is Pany’s loss. Just talking me personally, the GX1 looks fine, but it’s not for me without a swivel or tilt. I find a movable screen to be an invaluable advantage for creative shooting.
pana saw oly make big money by just taking the basic camera and changing a few minor things(charging massivly more for it) and said i’ll have some of that thank you!
I think that some people (including Panasonic!!) are missing the point with the tilt & swivel screen. It is not just for movies – it is really useful for low angles such as close ups of plants and is also ideal for candid shots when rotated through 90 degrees so that the subject is not aware that you are taking a picture of them.
The GH2 is Panasonic’s flagship. The new sensor and high res screen I believe will be on the GH3. The GX1 is just a rangefinder styled G3.
I think the camera is a “reasonable” iterative upgrade to the GF1. Nothing revolutionary, no big changes. They mostly used an already well designed body, put inside a newer sensor, a grip, upgraded electronics to handle a better speced viewfinder and called it a day. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with that, as soon as the price point is right.
The problem is timing. This camera is what many though would be an m43 LC1, a camera that would challenge Sony’s NEX7. We now know this is not the case. So, i guess we’re still at least one generation away from that.
At this point the GX1 sits next to G3 i think, in terms of general performance and target audience. And that’s why so many people (correctly in my view) compare it to that camera. And when you do that comparison, it seems it doesn’t have much to hold its own right?
And all this blatant BS, including intentional feature crippling, is why I’m wary of buying a camera from the Panasonic.
And if this is not a BS, then I’m even more wary of buying anything from such a dumbass company.
And this is not the first time when they do it: recall the reason for the new accessory port connector on GX1.
At least Sony tries to give some sensible explanation and do not do any intentional crippling. (Aside from the UI disaster, of course.)
Yeah Panasonic should either get better PR people to spin the BS or just not do interviews. They are not helping!
I disagree. Their honesty is refreshing. 😉 The entertainment value of these interviews alone is worth a lot more than their battery prices in Europe! LOL.
Yes, honesty is indeed refreshing. I don’t disapprove of honesty. However, what some people are taking away from Panasonic’s honesty is this: “After three years of making m4/3 cameras, we still haven’t gotten it right.” That’s a dangerous thing to have associated with your marketing messages. Just look through this set of threads. You’ll see that a number of people are saying exactly that: they don’t trust Panasonic to get it right.
@Thom Hogan
I think Panasonic’s market share and sale figures prove that Panasonic have got it largely right over the last 3 years from a standing start….
****btw You need to change the z-index on your navigation bar at sansmirror website (it can be found in your css file)****
And a great reason why Olympus is miles ahead of Panasonic in terms of innovation, right?
3 years. 1 camera. 7 styles. Colors and art filters! Sign me up! 😉
At least with Panasonic we have the choice of a built-in viewfinder, or not.
It’s doubtful we’ll ever get everything on our camera wish lists… from EITHER company. 🙁
Panasonic will make the GX1 in other colors if the market demands it? Is there a big demand for pink cameras??? How about Panasonic makes a camera with high res LCD and EVF and peaking because we demand it?
Even though I love the results I’m getting with my G3 and the new Leica 25mm, I won’t be able to seriously consider dumping my Nikon FF until the Gs offer either a simple PC-Sync terminal or a menu choice for flash operation that lets me have control of shutter speed in manual mode. As one tired of lugging Nikons, and truly amazed at the image quality of my G3 with the 25mm, until I can cheat the sync with manual control of the shutter while shooting in manual mode with a flash, I’m stopped. Add that and just three 2.8 Leica lenses and I’ll dump Nikon. Lenses needed: Leica: >=2.8 7-14mm, >=2.8 12-50mm, and a >=2.8 35-150mm all with image stabilization. Of course I’d rather shoot with a GH3 in non-menu mode touch operation. In other words, I don’t want to have to look at the camera to change settings. I want to play this instrument as though it were a musical instrument. Once instrument touch is mastered, and all the scales learnt, musical performance can begin. Just like Alfred Eisenstadt with his Leica. A good alternative would be to get in bed with Apple, add Siri, and voila, the instrument is not in the way of the artist.
This is a personal pet peeve. Even is I agree or at the very least tend to, those “bullshit” statements really annoys me.
Well, I wrote directly to admin in a personal message, didn’t think I would be quoated. But never mind, read the translated version and you will find there are lot of BS in every answer from Panasonic.
In all fairness, it is not clear that admin is quoting anyone. Not that I want to flame him or anyone, overall he has done a great job for that blog. Nevertheless I do prefer a more journalistic approach that leaves such smelly statements in the hands of the talk backers.
It’s a quote from the translator. Not mine.
Admin
Can you make a voting of what would satify futur GH3 owners?
1) G3 body (with grip)
2) GX1 body (with EVF) compact dslr style
<-personal choice
3) or GH2 body but a little bit smaller (with grip)
4) hihihi GF2 body but with full options =)
all that for show panasonic what is the customers demands….
or they started make bodys but is about sept 2012 so i very don't know…
seriously panasonic, you have been working hard for a year by removing the evf and tilt lcd from the G3 and calling it a “GX1” and raising the price?
+1
hahaha thank you for putting it into such simple terms
agreed with admin. many bullshit of them!
geezz 460k pixel resolution lcd screen – insane
Please m43 producer don’t make a camera that nobody wants…you’re not convince Us (the m43 user) since there’s lot of things that should be in modern digital camera still missing (swivel hi-res screen, built -in view finder, and better noise and DR management engine) and yet the tone of giving it a hi-price tag and insist to called it premium will not lure any new user at all…..
I don’t understand all this whining about EVF’s and swivel screens. If you are looking for this, the GX1 is just not for you, but the GF1 also wasn’t for you. The GX1 is the successor of the GF1, it gives you improvements on almost ALL aspects of the camera: build, handling, AF, IQ, etc for a lower price on introduction. They could have done a better job in finding a good supplier for their LCD’s, but overall, good job Panasonic!
You forgot one very important aspect: FUNCTIONALITY.
Like another user posted, Panasonic has basically stripped down the G3, and added nothing that would greatly increase its competitiveness. The lack of those features do not break the camera, but Panasonic seems to be deliberately holding the GX1 back because they are afraid it will steal sales from their other products. Panasonic doesn’t seem to understand that they have more important competitors than themselves.
oh, and by the way, why are you whining about others suggesting ideas about how Panasonic could have made the GX1 more appealing and competitive?
Please make a m43 camera gx1 size with inbuilt evf…
the human interface to the camera is so important; is it that hard panasonic? >
No swivel screen because swivel/tilt screens are for amateurs and idiots… NOT bullshit.
BIG STEAMING PILE OF BULLSHIT
Mhm, everyone who is short or has arthritis is either an amateur or an idiot.
I have used my G1 since it first came out. I have been hoping Oly would produce a camera with a built in viewfinder because I like the built in image stabilization for third pary lenses. I would have compromised to only use Panny lenses with OIS if the GX1 would have had an EVF, but sorry Panny, I’m done with you. NEX 7 is in my future instead. Panny and Oly had a chance to step up to the plate but now they are left in the dust.
I’ve been a Micro Four Thirds user since Panasonic’s G1 became available in late 2008. Since then I’ve been waiting for a compact body with a tilting screen. Like some others here, I won’t buy anymore cameras without a tilting screen. I find them too useful for discreet shooting and framing photos from unusual angles.
After the GX1 was announced – again without a tilting screen – I bought a NEX-5N. You can’t really criticize that body for being too thick because of the movable screen. Right now I’m using the NEX with a Zeiss Biogon 35/2.0 and Sony’s NEX 16mm pancake. Hopefully I’ll be able to add the Sony Zeiss 24/1.8 in the next few days. As an added benefit, the NEX-5N + Zeiss Biogon 35/2.0 is yielding the best image quality of any lens and sensor combination I have ever used.
I’ll be hanging onto my MFT lenses and GH2 until late next year, when I’ll make a decision as to which system to stick with. But Panasonic had better produce a more innovative product than the GX1 if they want to keep me as a customer.
Well, I am happy with the Gh2 and the G1 (first). GX1, after giving it some thought, is may be the best example how innovation (the G1) has given way to a cam that lacks fantasy in so many ways (design) and lacks things that would make sure it at least consolidates their position. The lack of a very good EVF (preferably OLED) is one BIG omission and to my mind, bigger than a non-tiltable screen.
Indeed, the tiltable screen is another omission.
Now they come up with this long list full of Bollocks, Like Thom makes clear. What I see happening now is that they are losing their credibility among their current users. We all liked competition, we invited it and here is why: we see that Sony becomes more and more a viable alternative. Yes, they are sorry and they think they have good reason to put substandard parts in their new cam. Yes, well: SONY NEX7 and 5N are very tempting.
Panasonic NEEDS to understand this:
– Your sensor must be geared more towards higher DR now, I mean 2 DxO points higher compared to GH2 (13 eV or so).
– Can’t you do focus peaking? Is that so difficult? Sweep panorama? In body HDR with 7 exposures.
– An EVF must be built in and it better be OLED and fast
– It would be nice to consider PDAF on sensor
– You need make the screen swiveling
This combination is needed and not 1 year from now If so, you have produced another nice cam way too late. You need this in the next rangefinder OR DSLR like camera within 6 months. That would make a huge jump. We are not talkimg rocketscience here, may be the sensor is too much too ask. But the reast i readily available.
Panasonic was a frontrunner but they have given up that position with GX1.
Besides: would be nice if Oly came out with a NEX7 like body, 16 MPixel sensor and all the things mentioned above.
Yes! No swivel-screen, no buy. And I dont think Im the only one…
Really dissapointing, as the camera in all other aspects look very good.
Drawback is called NEX-5N and NEX-7.
It should be at least as L1 was with tilt-swivel screen and decent sensor (improved DR/SNR in 12 mpix), then it could be success..
If Panasonic wants to be successul, I have few ideas.
Add S4/3 format (bigger than full-frame 4:3 ratio), and create L1 styled camera in that format. It just needs good LCD with tilt swivel and good EVF, thats all. Even if it would be MF only, ppl would kill to get one (imagine mirrorless multi-aspect FF with ability to fit every lens ever made.. or almost every).
If Panasonic do not dare to do this (ie. full frame mirrorless), Sony or may be Canon will and they will rule.
I think M43 format has such potential. A lot of pros use the format in their businesses in some form. Sure I would like a built in EVF and a tilt screen but I can live with out those. What I need is more dynamic range and a bit less noise. The files clip the highlights just a bit too soon.
What makes me super excited about the Nikon 1 system is that hopefully soon the chip technology will make its way into a m43 system.
I love shooting with my EPM1 for certain projects and I’m hoping in 2012 to be able to use a small camera for most of my projects.
M4/3 sure has potential but looks like Olympus and Panasonic just don’t know what the hell to do with it.
It would allow wide and diverse system with bodies from small compacts to ones with full controls and ergonomy with according choise of lenses from small primes and consumer lenses to high quality ones. In short that “one system” mentioned by was it some marketing bigshot of Olympus year or two ago.
But instead what we’ve gotten is just lower part of that without much any diversity except in primes:
N+x versions of the same compact camera and equally many kit quality lenses from Oly.
Pile of versions of two types of bodies (do even two of them have same battery?) from Pana and almost as forgettable lens selection.
Not that other manufacturers would have fared any better in making complete mirrorless system.
But unless Oly and Pana finally pull their thumbs out of their butts and start realizing that potential before summer I don’t think Canon and Nikon will give them much more of time.
Sure Oly and Pana got first into mirrorless game (unlike DSLR) but unless positions are well fortified Canon and Nikon will just walk over it with their huge brand names regardless of who has more innovative (selection of) products.
Stop complaining so much.
When Panny released GF2 and GF3 everybody complained that they are too small and dumbed down, now GX1 is too similar to GF1.
They may not be so perfect and always make the best decisions but come on, stop with the super offensive language please.
FF mirroless has no advantages to what dslr already have. Lenses would be large and heavy. What makes the m4/rds so appealing is its size and the sensor is just big enough to give you good quality and dof
A solid state mirrorless camera with only a shutter as a mechanical component is likely less expensive to manufacture than a DSLR with its complex moving mirror mechanism. For that reason, there will be a cost advantage and higher margin that should eventually produce mirrorless variants of the current DSLR’s.
The lenses will still have to be very large and heavy and that will throw off the balance of the camera
So you think that we need the mirror box/mechanism to balance large lenses? Wouldn’t it be more efficient and less expensive to just put some lead ballast inside the body somewhere?
🙂
low res: I don’t care.
fatal drawback must be no “embedded viewfinder”.
but most drawback is “Pana doesn’t implement aggressive new sensor”. Panasonic is very conservative for sensor progress. And the sensor is noisy. I want true “less-noise” data (=RAW), not de-noised by the picture engine in JPEG.
If pure quality is important, RAW must be improved.
(Buy sensor from SONY!)
tilt screnn … if embedded viewfinder, it must . but now the optional external view finder, that tilts, then I don’t need the tile screen so much.
As I bought GX1, GX1 is a good GF1 successor. Of course, the leap is not so much, but it is nearly same as G3 and G3 has resolution than GF1, in fact.
And now, GX1 is so good to grip feeling, I often grab GX1, than G3. G3 is bulky (yes, it’s a good camera).
I don’t like the comment about lens quality and the reference to Olympus. I sure hope they will not start producing lenses with more metal. Quality plastics is a much better material.
The M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8 is a cheesey looking lens, with the metal finish.
My 45/1.8 looks great.
er, the 45mm IS made of “quality plastics”…. and it looks very nice, actually, regardless of wtf that’s got to do with anything.
ADMIN if you hate M43 so much, take this site down already.
??? I don’t hate it. I like my E-P1 a lot! And the comments are form the translator, not mine.
UPDATE: I removed the “bullshit” statements from the translator. Indeed it looks like people doesn’ undertsand that it is NOT coming from me.
I understood that it did not come from you. I appreciate (like I said earlier) your courage in allowing discussions like this and it only bodes well for the m4/3rds, IMO.
And one more thing. If I write something good about a m43 camera or lens than I hear often that I am a fanboy, if I write my opinion about aspects of a camera or lens I do not like than I do that because I hate m43. It’s really annoying sometimes. I am a guy, with his own opinions. That’s it. I am not “for” or “against” somebody. I want to discuss the things I see. Easy or not?
P.S.: I repeat, the GX1 “bullshit” comments were not mine.
Illegitimi no carborundum est!
You do fantastic job Admin! Keep up the GREAT work!
No matter what you do or say, someone will object.
You noted that the “bullshit” commentary wasn’t yours yet still some went ballistic anyway or complained that their delicate systems couldn’t handle playground language.
I use stupid smiley faces all the time so the ignoramus literalists know that I’m joking.
Ain’t it a bitch? 😉
That’s the internet… More noise than anything else.
When is the GX1 going to be available in the EU? I hear December, but none of the most popular stores list it yet here in NL. (Which they usually do under the “coming soon” banner.)
I’m really curious if this will be an option over the NEX-C3. So far I’m not convinced, but I do like the GX1 anyway… for some reason…
it was obvious they were not your comments – the issue was not in your writing, it was in some peoples reading!
1. 43rumors.com & Admin are the best! Thanks for all you do.
2. A tilt & swivel LCD screen and a built-in EVF are high priorities for cameras I use, especially for video purposes. I strongly encourage Panasonic to upgrade the quality & resolution of both in their future “higher end” m43 hybrid still/video cams, and also please add live audio output for monitoring sound during video recording! Pretty please!
3. Did I already say “43rumors.com & Admin are the best!”?
Cheers.
I’m still scratching my head over the choice to drop the drive mode/bracketing lever, which is for me a VERY useful feature – why *reduce* control functionality on an *enthusiast* body?
GX1 would have been accepted by people as a nice camera if GF1 doesn’t exist. 2 years after the sensational debut of GF1, this camera should have been improved much more.
Now, my only hope is GH-3 to be a range finder body. Why it has to be DSLR style?
Pile…that is not going to happen….The GH2 is mainly a video camera..and oh..yeah…it shoots great stills.
The GH3 will undoubtedly maintain the same footprint…That is a whole other audience than the GX1 photographer. So..I guess you will have to wait a couple of years until a new sensor is developed by Panasonic. :-0
Pany is interested in making money with the least amount of investment…pretty obvious by now!
Get it straight. The GH2 is a great stills camera that happens to shoot great video.
Let’s all hope the GH3 builds on a great foundation.
Meanwhile, Olympus is trying to profit by making near-zero investment:
3 years. 1 camera. 7 styles.
😉
@Pile There should BOTH a GH2 DSLR-inspired body AND a rangefinder-inspired body with a built-in EVF. Why insist on one or the other, when BOTH have valid places in the M4/3 ecosystem. There are clearly enthusiastic buyers for both.