A new source from the land of the rising sun told me that Fuji will announce 2 different mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras this summer, with two different sensors. One should be announced in the second half of June and the other one later. The price of one of these bodies should be of $700.
I’ve checked it and here is what I know from trusted sources:
Fuji could indeed announce two different mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras with two different sensors, one with an APS-C X-Trans sensor and one without X-Trans sensor [there is an update to the non-X-Trans sensor camera here].
Trusted sources could not tell me which one will be announced earlier or if they will be announced together.
That’s it for now. As always, please read rumors carefully. I specify in every rumor if it comes from trusted sources, new sources, anonymous sources or if the rumor has been posted on other websites. Don’t throw everything together in the same pot. Rumors of new sources should be taken with a grain of salt, while trusted sources have proven to be right in the past (as with the X100S, X20, updated lens roadmap, 55-200 announcement on April 17 and more, just check the rumor section on FR). The network of sources is growing. Let’s see if this new source will become a trusted source.
So, how would you like camera 1 and camera 2 to be?
cheers
Patrick
76 Responses
My hope: Camera 1) Entry level with current 16mp X-trans and camera 2) Updated X-E1 or X-Pro1 with Sony’s latest 20mp sensor adapted to X-trans with PDAF on sensor.
So please tell me: why should Fujifilm use a Sony sensor ??
AFAIK all Fuji cameras have Fuji sensors…
Its a known fact that Fuji uses Sony sensors..
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/40286847
It’s not a known fact at all, it’s very debatable one.
You can also find interviews from Fuji’s denying and stating that all of their sensors are made in-house.
Look at the contact layouts for the “Fuji Xtrans” and the Sony sensor in the Pentax K5/K-01. They’re the same. If you have a ILC XTrans camera take a look at athe sensor.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32640163/Fujifilm XPro1 X Pro 1 sensor.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32640163/Pentax K-01 Sony sensor.jpg
The Xtrans sensor is a Sony sensor with different color filter array on top.
Nothing wrong with that. It’s a good sensor. If they want a different CFA then Sony are happy to OEM them.
The sensor in the X100 was a Sony sensor (that is confirmed down to part number!) so the collabortation started there.
The EXR sensors are made by Fujitsu (AFAICT).
There isn’t any debate left. Get over it!
What is the ?! I prefer Fujifilm cameras because of unique Fujifilm sensors! I sick already with sony’s sensors in Nikon DSLRs. And I left Nikon’s DSLRs to come to Fuji because of it’s sensor and better JPEG quality. By the way I wish Fujifilm will continue pay very careful attention to JPEG quality. For me it’s extremely important. That’s why one day I start to watch Fujifilm cameras.
Fuji does not manufacture CMOS. They use Sony CMOS sensors with their own filter stack and image processing pipeline. Don’t confuse the simple bayer array pattern and other parts as being part of the sensor. They are added to existing sensors.
Only a small set of companies actually design and make CMOS sensors.
Camera 1) a Full-Frame camera like X-Pro1, 24MP and new autofocus system
Camera 2) a new version of existence X-pro1
no more needed
That would be lovely. But pretty please, give as also the silver version of the full frame. The black one for the purists and the black-silver scheme (same as X-E1) for the folks like me 🙂
all to keep everyone happy 😀
I second that. I like my X100S a little better than my X-Pro1 just for the colors 🙂
1/ Low price body with Xtran sensor.
2/ B&W version of XP1, the non-xtran version
great idea the B&W version 😉
Any camera that can produce files that are easily processible!
+1 for the monochrome with a X mount! 🙂
Must have is a tracking AF
In all Fujifilm’s X-cameras I wish they improve LCD-screen. In many reviews people notice low resolution of main LCD screens in Fujifilm’s cameras. In this respect Fujifilm is far behind the competition. Fujifilm use in their LCD screens resolution from 2007. Little shame.
X-Pro1 has a good LCD, X-E1, X100 have older LCD units
I would love to see a Fuji X-camera with a 12Mp bayer sensor without AA filter.
+1
1) Entry level x-mount camera w/out x-trans sensor – 14MP and no olpf
2) High end x-mount camera x-trans sensor 18MP w/out olpf new improvements like in x100s with hybrid viewfinder optical and 2.44MP electronic + 1.400.000 pixels 3.2″ lcd screen ! ! ! 😀
I’m taking the second one ^^
+1
Price seems too low to be a pro. The rumoured entry level camera must be on the cards.
The second camera remains a mystery!
What I think will happen is updated X-E1 with sensor from X100S and then there might be one camera which might feature the same sensor as the one in new CoolPix camera – w/o AA filter.
Given the previous rumours, and the fact that the X-Pro 1 body can now be bought for as little as €600, and given that shops are no longer re-stocking the X-Pro 1, I really hope that one of these announcements may regard a replacement for the X-Pro 1.
http://www.streetphotographix.com
where can you buy a xpro1 body for 600 euro?
Look hard in eBay and they turn up, but most are now gone. Two large retail chains here in Italy reduced their prices to well under €700 to clear their stock, and they say they will not be replacing them as new bodies will soon be available. The same shops reduced their prices on the X-E1 and the X100 to very low levels just to clear their stock, and there are now very few left, if any. The shops in several European countries who sell out of the X-Pro 1 confirm they will no re-order stock of that particular model. The X100s has a faster processor, better sensor, better viewfinder and updated autofocus compared to the X-Pro1, which has made people question the wisdom of buying the current X-Pro1. Great camera, but in comparison to the X100s it’s now a technological dinosaur.
http://www.streetphotographix.com
Thx Paul
Less than 700€? Really? Do you mean before VAT is applied, right? I’m in Italy too and I’m waiting for a discounted X-E1 but so far the price in all the stores I’ve searched is still not much removed from the original one.
Same with X-Pro.
Marcuz,
reply to your posting that hasn’t been moderated yet, so I can’t answer it directly.
The answer is FNAC is one of the shops, but I think you’ll have to be fast because they’ve probably sold all or most of them, They lowered the prices VERY low, and then were open to offers. I bought a spare XP1 body several months ago. They had lowered the price to €700 and the X-E1 was even lower than that, around €600, but I got the X-Pro1 for €630. When I went back 10 days later, the last X-Pro1 was priced at €650, and they told me if I wanted it to make an offer. It has now sold, but there are several other branches of FNAC in Italy. Another chain of shops, can’t remember its name, also lowered it price on the XP1, X-E1 and X100. Both chains confirm they will not be replacing their stock of those models in the forseeable future. eBay will show many UK shops now selling the XP1 body at just over GBP 700, but I am reliably informed that some of those shops are open to negotiation. The deals are there if you’re quick, and if you’re willing to put the work in to find them.
http://www.streetphotographix.com
Thank you very much Paul, I’ll go search for it for sure then!
Is it just that the two sensors are different from each other or are they different from any current x-trans sensor as well? I’d expect the X-Pro2 or X-E2 to ‘just’ get the X100S sensor with phase-detect, but if they’re working on a completely new sensor that for example renders detail and color more accurately with any RAW software, that would be more awesome. 😉
I hope it will have that kind of live view simulating the actual exposure of the setting, like Sony. I don’t really mind if the LCD is old as long as the price can keep low.
1. Lightweight manual focus split focus and focus peaking camera. With faster top shutter speed and/or built in ND filter
2. Articulated screen to make low level shots easier
3. Live histogram on manual
4. Bigger viewfinder
5. Built in grip as current useless.
6. Tripod mount offset so battery cover not obstructed by QR plate
7. Improved focus tracking
8. Not heavier than current xp1
Just one wish:
An X-E2 (i.e. an updated X-E1), with an 21MP X-Trans, x1.3 multiplier >APSC sensor…
I for one hope they move away from the X-trans colour filter – the current 16 megapixel sensor is very good but the unique colour array doesn’t really seem to add any benefits as we see now a bunch of bayer sensor cameras without low pass filters that produce practically zero moire in real world shots and don’t require such complex (and slow) demosaicing.
I guess this is the first step for Fuji to get rid of the X-Trans sensor. After all the marketing they put behind it they cannot just suddenly release an X-Pro2 with a Bayer sensor and say it’s better. So they will release 2 entry level cameras, one with the old X-Trans color filter and one with the all new Bayer sensor which improves resolution, color, speed and eases workflow. After the great success of the Bayer sensor one, they will have an excuse to kill the X-Trans due to lack of demand.
Good news indeed.
I applaud Fuji (and Sigma) for walking a different road. If you prefer a bayer sensor there are plenty alternatives.
+1
I agree that it isn’t always beneficial for detail or resolution (at the moment). But it still does render noise uniquely well. With bayer sensors noise at high or even lower ISOs is clearly much more distracting in appearance because of the repeating pattern, while it looks calm and natural with x-trans. Also there is a impressive lack of chroma-noise. So there are benefits for sure. It is such unique properties that set them apart from the rest, and stay ‘Fuji’. Just because we may know there is ‘even more’ potential doesn’t take away the already awesome performance, and certainly doesn’t mean they should quit the whole concept. 🙂
But those are characteristics of the sensor itself, not of the X-Trans color filter. The sensor used by Fuji looks very much like it’s made by Toshiba (like the ones in the Nikon 5200 and 7100). Besides, Fuji’s RAWs are not really RAW, since there is an aggressive chroma noise reduction performed in the sensor itself (or whatever they do). In any case, using a Bayer color filter should not have any impact in noise (or so small that it would hardly be noticeable).
X-Trans was an interesting experiment, but in the end it turns out that moiré is not such a big issue as to use this odd color filter just to avoid it. The cons outweigh the pros, so now Fuji might be finding a way out (or so I hope).
Sorry, don’t agree with any of that. I stand by what i said.
Have you got any evidence for this, or is it just conjecture? Given that demosaicing plays a huge role in how noise is rendered, I think it’s difficult to assert that the colour filter used doesn’t play a role in the final output.
Indeed. The demosaicing is exactly what creates the image’s texture, after all where else would the picture come from. 😉
While at low iso that random layout prevents moire (by eliminating the repeating pattern that causes it in the first place), it does exactly the same thing at high iso: preventing a repeating pattern to be formed, resulting in a calm grain-like structure.
+1
I remember Fuji tryout of honeycomb sensors which failed. With the X-trans I am not sure it is a failure. Increased resolution to 20 – 24mpix would limit negative aspects. On the other hand it is not outstanding when it comes to detail/resolution – but at low ISO rendering it is.
The Fuji image rendition is there on the X100 as well as on cameras with X-trans sensors.
I believe there will be two low end cameras the main differentiation be sensor and resolution:
1. X100s sensor
2. X100 sensor with upgrades
No 1 more expensive than no 2.
Don’t think Fuji spends too much on development on entry level cameras: They cannot be priced other than low, binging less profit to the company. m43 and NEX entry level cameras does not sell well at all. F.i. Oly still has EPM-1 and EPL1 for sale. They manufactured too many of them. They are now blocking sales of newer versions
Remove the EVF from the X-E1 = budget camera A
Exchange the sensor in budget camera A to the 12mpix from X100 and you have budget camera B.
Smart, low development cost….
+1
Per,
I wouldn’t call a tryout of honeycomb sensors that lasted for a whole decade a failure.
Regards
My wish is a full frame sensor and internal AF motor to support contax g lenses. I know it is pretty much.
You must be daydreaming … if you think that Fuji might add focus motor just to implement some sort of support for a legacy lens mount.
Yeah! An adaptor ring with af motor would do as well. 🙂
I hope this is a sign that Fuji will start using Bayer again. The sensor in my X100s is my least favorite thing about the camera, no matter which raw converter (or the jpeg engine) I use. A 24mp, AA-less Bayer sensor would be great in a future X-Pro-2.
Are these both going to be entry level cameras? Or will one of these 2013 cameras be a higher end model that we should wait for instead of purchasing into an X-Pro1 now?
Hi Patrick I have just seen this new photos with the fujifilm x100s
Holi Festival of Colours and the X100S
http://stockografie.blogspot.com/2013/05/holi-festival-of-colours-and-x100s.html
wondeful pictures
Full frame and cheap =)
My guess is as follows.
1. conventional X-Trans CMOS sensor model
2. 16MP Bayer sensor + LPF with normal effect model
i want a picture of Patrick
Lol, good one.
i hope fuji revert back to the bayer sensor and use on one camera the 16mp sony sensor used on the D7000 and of course, remove the AA filter.
I don’t understand people that hopes fuji change to bayer sensor. why? If you don’t like x-trans it’s possible choose thousands of cameras with bayer sensor.
I can’t compare directly between new bayer and old x-trans, but existed also old-bayer than became new-bayer, so let’s leave to fuji develop new x-trans and build it’s own system in a different way, it’s better for us to have possibilities to choose between diferent systems, sensors, lens, etc. In other way we’ll only have the same camera with different names.
If fuji had not developed x-trans sensors, may be we only would have cameras with old-bayer because they wanted to amortize development and thanks to x-trans they had to wake up.
It’s better to have a competition between companies that a monopoly…
I find quality in my x-e1 outstanding, you said the new bayer is better, ok, I can’t refuse it, but. Do you think it’s an abyss between them? really? I’m not sure if I could appreciate differences. Sensors are developed and improved of course, but differences between 2 generations usually are minimal.
For example I surely would be happy with an OM-D image quality instead of my x-e1, I doubt I could see very huge differences in image quality between them. I simply choosed fuji because their concept was more appeal to me, but not because I thought big differences in quality.
So please, if you don’t like x-trans, buy another brand and leave x-trans lovers enjoy it.
I have an X100 (original) with its bayer sensor and an X-E1 – the X100 has all the Fuji magic with none of the demosaicing issues. The x-trans colour filter if anything is getting in the way of fully realising just how damn good those Fuji lenses are. If I could swap the X100 sensor into my X-E1 I would because I think the results would be better, the x-trans throws away any extra detail captured by those additional 4 megapixels in my experience.
Hi Raz,
have a look at my site. 40% of the photos are taken with an X-Pro 1 with manual 35 Voitländer lens, 40% with an X100, and 20% a mix of iPhone and Canon 7D and 3D.
Can you tell which are which? I’m not sure I can… which just shows that most sensors are as good or as bad as the person driving them 🙂 It’s not the sensor that makes the photograph, and it really doesn’t make much difference which sensor a camera has.
Purely for reference, with the Canon and the Fujis all shots are taken JPEG set to B&W in the camera, with no PP apart from contrast. 🙂
http://www.streetphotographix.com
You have some lovely photos Paul and I don’t doubt you do see little difference when doing street photography, but if you try doing landscape stuff you’ll find the X-Pro has a tendency to render fine detail in foliage very mushily. There’s simply too much guess work going on in the demosaicing plain and simple. For some subject matter it absolutely doesn’t matter of course, but for some things like I said the X100 produces better images with it’s lower res sensor.
Hi Raz
As others have said. There are plenty of other cameras that uses bayer which I’m sure will perfectly suit you. I think we should just celebrate diversity.
Hi Raz, thanks! 🙂
Leaves are a problem. My Canon 7D doesn’t make a very good job of them either, but the 3Diii is good. But do you really need pixel sharp tiny details? Surely it’s the overall image that counts, and not the details at pixel level? Maybe I’m wrong, as I don’t do landscapes… but I do have a feeling that many people are becoming obsessed with pixel sharpness instead of concentrating on the overall image at the maximum printed size they are planning to use. In that regard, there is little difference between an iPhone, a 7D, a 5D, an XP1, or an x100. It makes for better photography, too, as then you tend to concentrate on the photograph rather than whether your pixels will all be perfect. I will probably get bombed for daring to suggest such simplicity, but it works for me. I don’t have to crop, level, or PP… my photos, apart from the occasional adjustment to contrast, are straight out of the camera. I never use RAW, I shoot JPEG in B&W, so I can’t go back to colour even if I want to (iPhone is the only exception, that has to be converted). Pixels aren’t as important as some people claim…. it’s the outcome of the final image at max planned size that counts 🙂 The x100 and the XP1 both produce good images in those conditions.
http://www.streetphotographix.com
What’s wrong with X-trans sensors?
X-S2 w/EXR-II (2/3″)
X-Pro2 w/newer X-Trans
The rumor is for two interchangeable lens cameras. 🙂
I would like to see an improved X-E2 with better AF, bug fix in the firmware, bigger grip and… A Completely Redesigned Flash System (that matches Nikon)
I hope they keep X-Trans forever. The palette of greens, the absence of metallic colors and of artificial drama, expecially in prints, is invaluable. After fighting against Nikon/Sony and Canon looks for years, I would not change the X-Trans for anything. Demosaicing problems are a matter of the past; there may be some detail difference vs 24MB Bayer, easily offset by better lenses. I think what we need in a new Fuji is decent auto ISO, focus peak, X-100s style autofocus.
My wish is a Foevon sensor
At least make it X-TraFoveon then. 😛
I’m with you.. not necessarily Sigma’s Foveon. Eventually a full color sensor that will address a lot of the current Foveon short comings (limited ISO range, for one) will emerge. I, for one, loved the images my DP1 could produce in adequate lighting.
Until then, I’ll happily continue to use my X100.
I thought: significantly improved Fuji’s Foveon
Never mind new models, I’m just hoping that I get my X100s before the summer – that would be nice 🙂
A full frame option would be a very interesting development as well.
I frankly don’t care about a new body unless it is an upgrade for X-E1. I just wish the promised lenses would come a little sooner. And as for X-trans sensor it’s here to stay. I can’t for see that Fuji will stop with it seeing that they just recently introduced the X 100s and X20 with this type of sensor. I think we will see a X-S2 very soon.